Sean Richo Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 On a DIY shoot of approx 600 acres of mixed land we release 500 ex layers if we had a severe fox problem over the 8 weeks before the 1sf October how many could possibly be killed by foxes (worse case scenario) the shoot is in a valley in Wales that is surrounded by big forestry commission woods I thing that the foxes are coming out of the woods down into the shoot to feed as we can't understand where the pheasants are going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 All Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Maybe they are just doing a runner. If you don't see remains it is just natural dispersion. Are they at the stage where they are roosting in trees? If so foxes won't get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Richo Posted October 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Don't see any remains they could be doing a runner but the morning of the shoot on sat on arrival (daylight) saw a fox time before that when feeding I shot a fox and time before that saw another fox so in 3 visits in daylight I have seen a fox. We put 500 down first day shot 0 we saw about 12 max all day and worked ever bit of cover we could. We got the ex layers about two months ago maybe more put them in pens when we arrived and plenty of feeders on shoot no shortage of food none of them going down much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 They will kill some, but I would doubt all, they don't like being harrased so it's possible they have gone for a wander down the valley. Try varying the times you go, I have around 600ac and put down 1000 birds. You could go some days and think I had never released a pheasant, some times I go and it looks like there are 10,000! Do you dog in and do any fox control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampire Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 If it was fox the dead and feathers would be everywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 If it was fox the dead and feathers would be everywhere+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Ex layers are notorious for going walk-about. From what you describe it sound like you have cover all round the boundaries of your shoot area. The trouble is that at this time of the year there is no shortage of feed anywhere. When the natural feed runs out you may find that they come back to the feeders. I agree with vampire and Fisheruk that if this was fox work then the evidence would be everywhere. Sorry friend but I think they have just wandered off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Richo Posted October 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 We don't do fox control as I live 1 hr 30 mins away none of the other guns are interested or to busy. One fox been shot by me with shotgun when out topping feeders up that's it really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Richo Posted October 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 I only joined this year the shoot captain was going to give it up due to low returns each year but last year they had a lot of disturbance due to fencing contractors but this year no disturbance and still no better going back this sat to give it another go.I think a lot of have wandered and the remaining ones taken by fox. Last year they shot less than 20 and year before the same every year 500 have been released! Never know a place as bad just dissapear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 I know it's not your fault, but if you can't dog in and there is good cover and plenty of food then they will wander miles. Mine are dogged in at least twice a day and still manage to get away down their favourite hedges chasing daddy longlegs and whatever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powler Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 We don't do fox control as I live 1 hr 30 mins away none of the other guns are interested or to busy. One fox been shot by me with shotgun when out topping feeders up that's it really. Is there not anyone a bit more local that would help with the fox control? Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Brave man I expect a fair few have been eaten but a lot of them being ex layers will have wandered in to boundary cover and beyond there's lots of food out there again this year so even heavy feeding is unlikely to hold the birds. Lots of dogging in may help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) We put down ex layers on our rough shoot and see them everywhere initially. Then as the summer months vegetation takes off they slowly disappear. We do see young broods now and then but there's always that fear they've done a runner, and with so much natural feed in abundance the feeders don't get used. Come the shooting season they suddenly reappear ( they've obviously been there all along ) all over the place. We put a lot of time and effort into creating the perfect pheasant habitat, with as much cover crop as we can, warm woods and sunny glades. Pheasants will wander and ex layers have a bad rep' for doing so, the big advantage we have is that this is big pheasant country and we are surrounded by other shoots, as are they. You'll just have to keep your fingers crossed I'm afraid. Good luck. Let us know how you get on. Edited October 5, 2016 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) I once heard of a bloke that used to come round a shoot every night with a silenced 410 and knock down about 22:30 bird's out of the trees. These poached Birds put into the bag of a nearby shoot for the next day no one ever realised what was happening as any minor patches of feathers were just thought to be where birds have been shot and the guns on the second shoot were paying for birds that they haven't shot. this money was then siphoned off the side into the pockets of the people involved in the job I don't think that it ever came to light what was going on apart from the fact that the people on the first shoot wondered where all the birds had gone to. Seeing as no one is near your shoot how do you know what is going on. Someone could be setting up a catcher and feeding the birds away down a hedge or even near the feeders and then taking the live birds away to bolster the bird numbers on their shoot. A local rouge could be having a good laugh at your expense. Go and have a look round just away from your boundary near adjacent property and see if there are unexplained patches of feed or even a small catcher. If someone is doing something like this they are more likely to be on the boundary. It could even be a bit of wire that guides birds to a convenient hole in the fencing. I've seen all of these tricks in the past. Your problem could be that you aren't on the ground on a daily basis. Edited October 5, 2016 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Shooting 20 out of 500 is pretty poor, by rights u should be shooting around the 200 mark, usually if ur not shooting aound 25%+ ur cheaper buying small days of shoots. Must be costing a bit of money even to buy the birds. Fpxes are not ur friend but at the same time once birds are out of the pen and up roosting and a bit wiser they also won't do a massive ammount of damage either. Even on big commercial shoots u still see foxes. I'd say u need to have a think about next year even go down to 1-200 birds released, mibee ur releasing too many for ur ground and the habitat? Possibly it's just not good ground for pheasants? Or changing to poults and getting them later in the year? Ex layers will be wandering from june/july when u get them, whereas if u got Aug poults shorter days etc less time for them to wander, they still will thou. There could be poachers, but i doubt it the little money a pheasant is worth, and even if u were a poacher u'd go to somewhere with more birds. And ur too early for the 410 thing as no one wil have started commercial pheasant shooting yet. Chances are ur birds have wandered possiby because not looked/dogged in enough or ur ground isn't that suitable for them. Do none of u know a keeper/someone that runs diy syndicates to come round and look at ur ground for u? Even pay a gwct advisor (dunno if bsc have advisors too?) to come out and look at it, not cheap but cheaper than releasing 500 birds every year and shooting 4% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Richo Posted October 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 The shoot is over two farms and the farmers would know I think if there was anything going on they are decent lads and help us best they can. We are not there a lot so it's hard to say what's happening to birds it was very wet Saturday so hopefully with a bit of sun may be some birds about will let you know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Richo Posted October 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 10 guns all pay £500 each that covers rent over two farms and birds and food etc and pays for extra feeders. I am going to get a keeper I know and take him down to look at the land and see what he thinks. For near 500 pheasant to vanish and also 3 years on the run there is a serious problem we need to find out what's happening as we need to make a decision about keeping land next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) It could still be poaching, or as Fortune says, theft, don't underestimate the local grapevine, especially in rural Wales. Unattended shoot and 500 pheasants out will be noticed Edited October 5, 2016 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herby Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Why don't you ask someone on here to control the foxs for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Richo Posted October 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Could be an idea but not really my decision as shoot captain makes all the final decisions but something I will mention on sat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 I once heard of a bloke that used to come round a shoot every night with a silenced 410 and knock down about 22:30 bird's out of the trees. These poached Birds put into the bag of a nearby shoot for the next day no one ever realised what was happening as any minor patches of feathers were just thought to be where birds have been shot and the guns on the second shoot were paying for birds that they haven't shot. this money was then siphoned off the side into the pockets of the people involved in the job I don't think that it ever came to light what was going on apart from the fact that the people on the first shoot wondered where all the birds had gone to. Seeing as no one is near your shoot how do you know what is going on. Someone could be setting up a catcher and feeding the birds away down a hedge or even near the feeders and then taking the live birds away to bolster the bird numbers on their shoot. A local rouge could be having a good laugh at your expense. Go and have a look round just away from your boundary near adjacent property and see if there are unexplained patches of feed or even a small catcher. If someone is doing something like this they are more likely to be on the boundary. It could even be a bit of wire that guides birds to a convenient hole in the fencing. I've seen all of these tricks in the past. Your problem could be that you aren't on the ground on a daily basis. Eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Have just been talking to a 'keeper friend of big BIG shoot this morning, and he was saying he's had birds wandering a lot. He's putting it down to the abundance of natural feed and is hoping for some really cold hard weather when the season gets going, to bring them back to the feeders. And another mate who dogs in every morning up at his patch, says that most mornings he'll have around a hundred to walk back in from the boundaries, but this morning...not one; and some time ago our 'keeper on our driven shoot said he has really struggled to keep the birds on our patch this year, so we may end up with just a couple of long dog walks at seasons end! Hope not. There are no guarantees I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remmy1100 Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 put couple trail cameras up to be your eyes when your not there then you can find out whats going on 24/7 I had one watching feeder birds there first light then last light never saw one around during day but they were there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 I doubt anyone on here can give u an answer, without seeing the ground. For it to happen 3 years on the trot says either ground/habitat not suitable or ur doing something wrong, more likely the 1st or a combination of 2 depending how expereinced shoot captain is. Pesronally i couldn't/wouldn't be paying that sort of money to shoot 2 birds each a season. U really need an experienced lad to have a look round and see wots going on, if ur keeper mate can't pinpoint a few things wrong u'd be as well seriosly thinking about changing something, changing to a rough shoot, reducing numbers (20 birds would be a disappointing return from 100 birds released), changing to poults or altering feed/feeders, moving pens, improving habit. All could be having some affect on ur birds and probably a load more things i've not thought off (as well as outside interference) even BoP could have a bigger infuence. We've had some bad years due to Gossy's, not even killing many but scaring/stressing them so much and then puting them over wire to wander off 500 quid would buy u a cracking driven day or 2, or quite a few mini driven/walked up boundry days Foxes will not be helping matters but at the same time wil not be the main reason either, i know of a couple of diy shoots where it's normal to see 4/5+ foxes most shoot days yet still shoot 30 odd % returns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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