steve_b_wales Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 I've just watched an episode of the above, where a deer was hit by a vehicle. Police were sent to the scene, and the deer was still alive but clearly badly injured. The policeman radioed and asked for a 'dispatcher', but one wasn't available. He then said that a firearms unit would have to deal with it. One stopped by the scene, came out of the car, looked at the deer, then contacted control, but were not allowed to dispatch the deer as they were going to another call. The policeman stated that they 'didn't have the right gun'. All this time, the poor animal was struggling and in pain. Much later, another firearms team eventually turned up and put the deer out of it's misery. What a shambles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 This is the UK you know what other would you expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 At one time the police had access to out of hours veterinary surgeons who would attend such incidents and dispatch the injured animal by lethal injection by syringe or dart gun. Sadly, the financial cutbacks have caused this sort of service to have been shelved. If the police were able to deal quickly and efficiently with every type of situation that arose you would all be moaning about how much taxes you were paying. There is another aspect here as well; the camera. I have dealt with similar incidents involving vehicle collisions with a sheep and a cat quickly and efficiently but if my actions had been filmed I'd have been hung out to dry by the senior officers. Sadly when the Chief Constable agrees for film crews to follow his officers around it always ends up with the police being criticised by the armchair experts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 At one time the police had access to out of hours veterinary surgeons who would attend such incidents and dispatch the injured animal by lethal injection by syringe or dart gun. Sadly, the financial cutbacks have caused this sort of service to have been shelved. If the police were able to deal quickly and efficiently with every type of situation that arose you would all be moaning about how much taxes you were paying. There is another aspect here as well; the camera. I have dealt with similar incidents involving vehicle collisions with a sheep and a cat quickly and efficiently but if my actions had been filmed I'd have been hung out to dry by the senior officers. Sadly when the Chief Constable agrees for film crews to follow his officers around it always ends up with the police being criticised by the armchair experts. I agree about the cutbacks, and I'm not blaming the police officers who were sent to the scene. One did seem genuinely concerned about the animal's welfare. And I, for one, certainly do not consider myself an 'armchair expert'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 Seems odd that they can't call on gamekeeper or sgc holder with, for sake of arguement a hushpower shotgun in fourten to help with humane dispatch under police supervision... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 Your winding me up with these stories. In my time, it was not unknown for us to have a 410 in the boot anyway along with a chain saw in the winter :-) I remember a Jaguar wing mirror getting blown off one early morning, the rabbit survived. Fortunate the 24hr Breakdown guys had a spare which they fitted whilst the crew had a cuppa. :-) Even back in the 60s and 70s this poor animal would have been dealt with speedily and humanely. As said above, to many possibilities of making what might look like a wrong move on camera and losing your job and it doesn't have to be a member of the public, it is common these days to get shopped by the police officer your working with. Best thing I did when I retired and know of many who just can't wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 Seems odd that they can't call on gamekeeper or sgc holder with, for sake of arguement a hushpower shotgun in fourten to help with humane dispatch under police supervision... You would have to hold a list of those willing to do the job and maintain that list. Those people would need to go on a course to ensure that they knew how to handle the many and various situations that evolve. You can't just let anyone come along and blat an injured animal just because they are a SGC holder. They might have only shot clays. It might be in an urban area, there may be complicating circumstances.You, the taxpayer would have to pay for all this. And if you are suggesting that police supervision would give some legality every response officer would also need to go on a course to be able to properly deal with the incident. Not all police officers have the shooting or field craft experience that comes as standard to members of a shooting and field craft forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 Your winding me up with these stories. In my time, it was not unknown for us to have a 410 in the boot anyway along with a chain saw in the winter :-) I remember a Jaguar wing mirror getting blown off one early morning, the rabbit survived. Fortunate the 24hr Breakdown guys had a spare which they fitted whilst the crew had a cuppa. :-) Even back in the 60s and 70s this poor animal would have been dealt with speedily and humanely. As said above, to many possibilities of making what might look like a wrong move on camera and losing your job and it doesn't have to be a member of the public, it is common these days to get shopped by the police officer your working with. Best thing I did when I retired and know of many who just can't wait. Indeed, you only have to remember the recent case of a Bobby who was hung out to dry for putting a deer out of its misery with a tyre lever, or whatever it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) Your winding me up with these stories. In my time, it was not unknown for us to have a 410 in the boot anyway along with a chain saw in the winter :-) I remember a Jaguar wing mirror getting blown off one early morning, the rabbit survived. Fortunate the 24hr Breakdown guys had a spare which they fitted whilst the crew had a cuppa. :-) Even back in the 60s and 70s this poor animal would have been dealt with speedily and humanely. As said above, to many possibilities of making what might look like a wrong move on camera and losing your job and it doesn't have to be a member of the public, it is common these days to get shopped by the police officer your working with. Best thing I did when I retired and know of many who just can't wait. Those days are long gone. Edited October 7, 2016 by UKPoacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 Another thing to think about. If an officer had shot the deer and then goes back to Police station at end of his shift with ONE less round in his pistol-he would have lots of paperwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Didn't have the right gun? Maybe protocols are different in Essex to those I've been used to. In the last couple of months I was with Surrey I shot 2 deer that needed to be dispatched humanely. Both were with the glock, no fuss, safe single head shots. For some reason instructors don't advocate the use of 9mm for animal destruction (deer) which I could never get my head around. If it's not up to the job of killing a deer then surely it isn't suitable as a weapon against human sized threats? There's no drama with rounds missing. You're dispatched by the ops1, everything is run as per any firearms job and at the end of the shift a note is made that a round was used in the rounds book so everything tallies up. Ideally the empty case is found but it's not essential. I'm aware of dozens upon dozens of animal destruction jobs, not once have I ever heard a vet/slaughterman/bloke on a list with a shotgun ever being available. Not once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Didn't have the right gun? Maybe protocols are different in Essex to those I've been used to. In the last couple of months I was with Surrey I shot 2 deer that needed to be dispatched humanely. Both were with the glock, no fuss, safe single head shots. For some reason instructors don't advocate the use of 9mm for animal destruction (deer) which I could never get my head around. If it's not up to the job of killing a deer then surely it isn't suitable as a weapon against human sized threats? There's no drama with rounds missing. You're dispatched by the ops1, everything is run as per any firearms job and at the end of the shift a note is made that a round was used in the rounds book so everything tallies up. Ideally the empty case is found but it's not essential. I'm aware of dozens upon dozens of animal destruction jobs, not once have I ever heard a vet/slaughterman/bloke on a list with a shotgun ever being available. Not once. Good on you pleased to here that there are still some people out there who just do there job and not complain about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Good on you pleased to here that there are still some people out there who just do there job and not complain about it. Haha thanks, though I've now left Surrey for mod plod (lifestyle change) Contrary to what some might believe, even shooting a deer is controlled in the same way as a person walking down the street with a handgun. Information, authority to deploy, consultation with tac ad if poss, briefing and a plan. At least it should be. That way if something does **** up there's an audit trail of decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 It's like everything these days, the blame game has stopped individuals being able to make common sense decisions and if you haven't done the right course your not going to be authorised to action anything. Also worth remembering, as highly trainedd as firearms officer's are, there's a big difference between humaian despatch jobs and stopping an armed attacker etc which will be what they've been trained to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Didn't have the right gun? Maybe protocols are different in Essex to those I've been used to. In the last couple of months I was with Surrey I shot 2 deer that needed to be dispatched humanely. Both were with the glock, no fuss, safe single head shots. For some reason instructors don't advocate the use of 9mm for animal destruction (deer) which I could never get my head around. If it's not up to the job of killing a deer then surely it isn't suitable as a weapon against human sized threats? There's no drama with rounds missing. You're dispatched by the ops1, everything is run as per any firearms job and at the end of the shift a note is made that a round was used in the rounds book so everything tallies up. Ideally the empty case is found but it's not essential. I'm aware of dozens upon dozens of animal destruction jobs, not once have I ever heard a vet/slaughterman/bloke on a list with a shotgun ever being available. Not once. This was a comment made by a policeman who was sent to the scene. It may not have been true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adge Cutler Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 In 1989 I was coming back from a shooting trip at about 9.30 pm. and a chap in the car in front of me hit a deer just outside Cirencester park...the impact took a front leg almost clean off.! The deer was hobbling around in shock dripping blood dragging this limb behind it which was attached by just a strip of hide. The bloke was distraught so was his wife,..... this was before mobile phones were universal remember. I took my shotgun out of the sleeve and despatched the deer The police arrived and invited me back to the station for questioning.. ....discharging a firearm in public I just about got away without a caution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Should have left it for the R.S.P.C.A. to deal with ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 In 1989 I was coming back from a shooting trip at about 9.30 pm. and a chap in the car in front of me hit a deer just outside Cirencester park...the impact took a front leg almost clean off.! The deer was hobbling around in shock dripping blood dragging this limb behind it which was attached by just a strip of hide. The bloke was distraught so was his wife,..... this was before mobile phones were universal remember. I took my shotgun out of the sleeve and despatched the deer The police arrived and invited me back to the station for questioning.. ....discharging a firearm in public I just about got away without a caution. Today you would be able to plead that you had a lawful authority or excuse under the Animal Welfare Act 2006. (1)A person commits an offence if— (a)an act of his, or a failure of his to act, causes an animal to suffer, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Today you would be able to plead that you had a lawful authority or excuse under the Animal Welfare Act 2006. I would say that would only apply if you own the animal or if it was in your care, have you got the specific section number of that act, I am of course happy to stand corrected, certainly not an act I know much about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 I would say that would only apply if you own the animal or if it was in your care, have you got the specific section number of that act, I am of course happy to stand corrected, certainly not an act I know much about Question.>>if you don't know much about the act why are you making a contradictory statement that you are happy to be corrected on? That don't seem to make any sense. Why not look at the act first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Question.>>if you don't know much about the act why are you making a contradictory statement that you are happy to be corrected on? That don't seem to make any sense. Why not look at the act first.I'm not trying to be a smart **** and didn't want to come across as such hence the happy to be corrected. It's also useful because if my suspicion is correct, wrong info could get people in trouble. But happy to be proven wrong, that's what this forum is about, learning, don't ask and you won't know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Question.>>if you don't know much about the act why are you making a contradictory statement that you are happy to be corrected on? That don't seem to make any sense. Why not look at the act first. Also the reason I asked for the exact section so I could look it up for myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 I would say that would only apply if you own the animal or if it was in your care, have you got the specific section number of that act, I am of course happy to stand corrected, certainly not an act I know much about No. I am wrong. The Act & Section specifically excludes destruction of an animal for humane purposes so you can't use the Act. But I would expect in those circumstances that you would avoid prosecution if you could demonstrate that you were acting in the best interests of the animal and were not endangering any other person or property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 I think that you may find it in the Animal Welfare Act 2006 where you could find a possible Defence?..... "in Extremis..... It's a criminal offence to allow an animal to suffer when you have the means to end it's suffering." or something similar? However any action would probably be tested in court as the case of the police officers and the deer. Note the word "Extremis" ...... this is not an area for peaceful sleep maybe if witnessed by anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Interesting stuff poacher and old man. I wasn't aware of it and like a lot of UK law sounds a gray area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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