grrclark Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 Some of you may recall the recent thread about Eric Bristow and his ill judged comments in respect to the abuse of young footballers. In that thread I said that I found it sinister how we are increasingly ceding freedoms to overt political correctness and a creeping liberalisation agenda through control of our use of language. It worries me greatly how so many are so willing to be outraged so easily because of agendas set by others that are in a very small minority. This is not intended to be a post to spike outrage, that would be ironic given my last statement, but it is intended to be informative, to make people consider what ultimately is being eroded in the pursuit of a forced agenda by minorities. I absolutely believe that minorities should not be persecuted or prejudiced, but I also believe that minorities should not set the agenda for everyone. The following is an article in today's Times newspaper. I hope that this isn't behind a paywall. "Use ze instead of he or she: Oxford students get lesson in gender bias" http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5946eb12-bfe2-11e6-ae7e-17dbcca7f257 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wb123 Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) Apparently defaulting to 'it' wherever gender is uncertain is not acceptable, im not sure we needed to invent a pronoun though for the situation. Edited December 12, 2016 by Wb123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 It is indeed behind a paywall! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 The students of today set on limiting freedoms rather than demonstrating for them as in the past. I 'm no fan of Tatchell but he is right with this:- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/nus-no-platform-safe-space-policy-goes-too-far-threatens-free-speech-warns-peter-tatchell-a6999801.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted December 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 That is unfortunate it's behind a paywall. the leaflet being sent to some schools titled "Let me tell you about gender identity" that stresses that we should no longer use the terms boys and girls when relating to pupils, but to make it gender neutral. i find that massively sinister. I daresay that it will be covered by other press outlets soon enough. Accurate statement Keg, we have people actually fighting to restrict our freedoms and liberties. I also agree with his view relative to safe spaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulnix Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 Surely they are creating a problem which doesn't exist just to prove they care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longspoon Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 I grew up in an era before all this tosh about being pc etc. I speak as I find......they can like it or lump it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 That is unfortunate it's behind a paywall. the leaflet being sent to some schools titled "Let me tell you about gender identity" that stresses that we should no longer use the terms boys and girls when relating to pupils, but to make it gender neutral. i find that massively sinister. I daresay that it will be covered by other press outlets soon enough. Accurate statement Keg, we have people actually fighting to restrict our freedoms and liberties. I also agree with his view relative to safe spaces. Trans was something that we'd never heard of 10 years ago - Since it has been out in the open, my daughter's school has had bundles of kids that have come out as Trans or Gay and I'm sure that it's more to do with being a bit trendy than anything else - Kids at that age are a little bit confused (Look at Mungler for example) and need a little time to work out where they are and what they are before badging themselves. If they want to keep it neutral, use the word pupils or students Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted December 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 My contention is that Transgender are massively in the minority and we should not seek to change the behaviour of everyone, in respect to use of language, as a result. If a transgender person presents themselves as a female then they are referred to as she, or vice versa. The use of gender specific pronouns have been in use since the inception of language, the romance languages have masculine and feminine differences, so to somehow suggest that this may now be offensive or discriminatory and we should use an artificial construct pronoun of Ze is utterly ridiculous to me. I do not believe that the use of a gender specific pronoun is discriminatory in the least when it fairly reflects what is the absolute vast majority of people. To be clear I have no issue with anybody who considers themselves to be transgender, I will refer to them in the way in which they asked to be referred to, but I would absolutely refuse to refer to everyone as Ze for fear that someone may consider it as an exclusive term and take offence as a result. Consider the implication, no more ladies and gentlemen, no boys and girls, no lads and lasses, etc. This approach is being pursued across many developed nations within academia and I do find it very worrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 It is the newspapers who are driving this. They trawl social media and news reports looking for anything that might be construed as a 'scandal'. It is getting to the point where anyone in politics or public life daren't speak honestly about anything for fear of being grassed up to the newspapers and hung out to dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulnix Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 When I was at school we had the smart ones, , the sporty ones , the just get by and have a laugh ones and the emo goth wannabes, by and large everyone kept to the same group as the grew up and left school, got jobs etc apart from those emo kids, they all turned a shade of normal in their late teens/early twenties as they got jobs, married and had kids and you wouldn't recognise them, now are those children in the " goth group " now in danger of being pushed into transgender bracket before they are old enough to really know what they want and then its too late, we already hearing about children not even in their teens being given hormones to stop them going into puberty, how many will be encouraged to go through the change to a different sex before they know what they really are or want to be ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 , but I would absolutely refuse to refer to everyone as Ze for fear that someone may consider it as an exclusive term and take offence as a result. SWMBO really dislikes being addressed as Ms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 SWMBO really dislikes being addressed as Ms. My wife hates Dear or Love or her even first name, much prefers the shortened nick name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 My wife hates Dear or Love or her even first name, much prefers the shortened nick name. Don't come to Derbyshire === Everybody, and I mean everybody is "duck" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 Don't come to Derbyshire === Everybody, and I mean everybody is "duck" And that's what Makes us "Great Britain" All my uncles are big hairy ***** retired miners and still call eveyone "luv" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 Speaking ones mind is an inalienable right and I am well practiced at it. I am never deliberately rude nor obtuse but offence is often taken by those who have differing views. As for the 'he,she, ze' transgender thing, the subject of this thread, I have no strong opinions but I have noticed some of those who are transgender getting very defensive which I suppose is normal in a world where the majority of people just do not understand the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) This illiberal left like to control language and thought. Definitions are constantly changing and even the old guard within the collective of the left fall foul of what is and isn't allowed to be said, hence the likes of Germaine Greer gets no-platformed by NUS committees due in part to generation snowflake and their safe spaces. Racism is now being taken to mean something including socio-economic and gender factors though this may not gain full traction. The next big one I feel is gender identity. It's easy to say you say what you want but not if you work in the public sector and much of the private sector. These assaults on free speech have been coined as being part of cultural marxism. There's an industry around it, mostly paid for by the taxpayer. Edited December 12, 2016 by yod dropper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) The convincing trans are ok it's the utterly unconvincing bloke in a frock I have issues with....... The American "bathroom laws" are mind boggling and seem to be based on a mind set that men are all sexual predators obsessed with invading public toilets! We are inventing terms to deal with tiny groups, have be media just forgotten we are all individuals??? Any guess on the next letter? LGBTCQ........A?Z? Edited December 12, 2016 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 The convincing trans are ok it's the utterly unconvincing bloke in a frock I have issues with....... The American "bathroom laws" are mind boggling and seem to be based on a mind set that men are all sexual predators obsessed with invading public toilets! We are inventing terms to deal with tiny groups, have be media just forgotten we are all individuals??? Any guess on the next letter? LGBTCQ........A?Z? Are you easily convinced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilksy II Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) It's wasn't that long ago that gay just meant happy so is this just another turn in road? Is it just me or does anyone else think of 'ze Germans!' In allo allo! When they read the other comments? Edited December 12, 2016 by Wilksy II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 Surely they are creating a problem which doesn't exist just to prove they care. More than a hint of truth in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted December 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 Good post Yod Dropper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 The convincing trans are ok it's the utterly unconvincing bloke in a frock I have issues with....... So a child (and I mean under 12) "decides" he/she wants to be of the opposite sex and that's OK if not to be encouraged. An adult decides he/she want to be of the opposite sex and that's OK plus the NHS pay for it. A bloke kisses a bloke and/or a girl kisses a girl and that's OK. (Kisses may be taken as a euphemism for ever increasing sexual activity between two members of the same sex) A girl goes out with cropped hair wearing dungarees and Doc Martens and that's OK. But a bloke want to wear a dress and the whole world goes loopy. Can anyone explain the logic to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 Chris if you want to wear a dress that's fine, just make sure you don't overdo the make-up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 It's not the make up, it's the bloody heels! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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