Pacific Salmon

[guzzicat]

These are turning up in local rivers,it seems from Russian restocking in the Baltic,several from the Spey & one last week from Deveron, having read what I could, these spawn differently, at a different time of year & cannot hybridise with Atlantic Salmon,so, good or bad news?

[ditchman]

will it take the pressure off the Atlantic salmon ?........do the pests and deseases of Atlantic salmon affect the Pacific Salmon

[Eyefor]

These are turning up in local rivers,it seems from Russian restocking in the Baltic,several from the Spey & one last week from Deveron, having read what I could, these spawn differently, at a different time of year & cannot hybridise with Atlantic Salmon,so, good or bad news?

 

WARNING

 

DAFT QUESTION AHEAD

 

How do they turn up in local rivers if (as I thought) they only returned to the river of their birth?

 

Not another (alleged) Ifor Williams / Muntjac migration is it?

Edited August 8, 2017 by Eyefor

[guzzicat]

It seems the spawn is free floating, drifts downstream & hatch in the sea, so fry avoid winged vermin & their larger brethren, spawn at high summer so should not interfere with redds.

[Eyefor]

It seems the spawn is free floating, drifts downstream & hatch in the sea, so fry avoid winged vermin & their larger brethren, spawn at high summer so should not interfere with redds.

 

..so completely different. No pacific salmon parr in the river.

 

You learn every day.

 

Thanks.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Eyefor

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, not being a salmon fisher could it not end up like the grey squirrel and red cray fish ?

[guzzicat]

 

..so completely different. No pacific salmon par in the river.

 

You learn every day.

 

Thanks.

Parr yes par? no

[guzzicat]

hello, not being a salmon fisher could it not end up like the grey squirrel and red cray fish ?

Salmon do not feed in fresh water, personally I can not see a downside, can not hybridise,or interfere with Atlantic spawning, (different time of year), only provide a bonus to our i own Atlantic Salmon ,one to knock on the head instead of catch & release.

[Eyefor]

Parr yes par? no

 

Edited.

 

Idiot. (Me, not you.....)

[guzzicat]

Parr yes par? no

Sorry misunderstood, they hatch in the sea,return after 2 to 5 years as adult fish to spawn & die, big aggressive cocks &prolific spawning hens.

[novice cushie shooter]

For me its still classed as an invasive species so if you catch one it should be killed. There have been half a dozen cases reported in Scotland last month. Not sure on if being farmed they have the ability to breed due to GM.

[scotslad]

So are these salmon escaped farmed salmon or released Baltic 1's?

 

If they thrive in the sea pens it might be a more environmental friendly way to farm salmon instead of the atlantic salmon at present which can breed with the wild stock.

Althou I think the biggest problem is sea lice numbers in farmed estuaries for the wild salmon or disease

 

I would doubt they'll ever be caught in sufficient numbers to ever really take the strain off atlantic salmon.

And if they're population did increase to those numbers while it might not do a lot of harm to the rivers u will have a lot more competition for food resources at sea,and really that's where the biggest problem already exists.

 

1 counter effect a lot of pacific salmon might have in the rivers, I believe most pacific salmon die after spawning so more food about so potentially more vermin or vermin breeding bigger broods/litters throu the summer and then absolutely hammering native fish stocks for the rest of the year. So it could affect native socks althou indirectly

[Old farrier]

Interesting

 

So what's the difference

How do you tell them apart

Any pictures on what they look like

 

Sorry for the questions

But having a small brook with brown trout in it is there a chance that I could be seeing a Pacific salmon coming up it to spawn

 

Many thanks

Of

[panoma1]

It seems the spawn is free floating, drifts downstream & hatch in the sea, so fry avoid winged vermin & their larger brethren, spawn at high summer so should not interfere with redds.

As I understand it all species of Pacific Salmon spawn in fresh water as do Atlantic Salmon.....likewise their life cycles are similar, that explains why both species run up to the headwaters of rivers to the reds to spawn! They hatch and grow in fresh water, then as smolts they head downstream to the ocean, where they feed and grow to return to the river to start the whole cycle again, after spawning Pacific Salmon die...whereas many Atlantic Salmon return to the sea after spawning and complete the cycle again....

I am no scientist but I doubt the eggs, alevin, fry or parr could survive in saline water...whilst in the river the parr turn into smolts which enables them to make the transition from fresh to survive in salt water.

[Uilleachan]

As I understand it all species of Pacific Salmon spawn in fresh water as do Atlantic Salmon.....likewise their life cycles are similar, that explains why both species run up to the headwaters of rivers to the reds to spawn! They hatch and grow in fresh water, then as smolts they head downstream to the ocean, where they feed and grow to return to the river to start the whole cycle again, after spawning Pacific Salmon die...whereas many Atlantic Salmon return to the sea after spawning and complete the cycle again....

I am no scientist but I doubt the eggs, alevin, fry or parr could survive in saline water...whilst in the river the parr turn into smolts which enables them to make the transition from fresh to survive in salt water.

 

 

... and therein lies the potential issue with summer spawning, that could be a direct threat to atlantic salmon alevin as pacific parr would be well advanced by the time atlantic alevin are dropping their sacks.

 

This isn't isolated, I think we're up to a couple of hundred caught between Scotland Ireland and the North of England. Was watching a pink humpy swim up the Ness today on the Ness District Fishery camera, the footage was uploaded to Faceache.

[Uilleachan]

 

WARNING

 

DAFT QUESTION AHEAD

 

How do they turn up in local rivers if (as I thought) they only returned to the river of their birth?

 

Not another (alleged) Ifor Williams / Muntjac migration is it?

 

Not a stupid question.

 

It's thought that about 90+% of returning salmon head to their home river. The remainder wander into other rivers. There's a two fold benefit there, 1 that behaviour ensures the genetic integrity of established populations by wandering salmon contributing to gene pool. 2 where populations have been wiped out new populations are eventually reestablished. Thats happened on the Mersey Kelvin etc. Former heavily industrialised rivers cleaning up and now holding a head of salmon.

 

These pinko salmon are thought to be wanderers from the Kola peninsula in Russia, where a population of pink salmon was established in the 50's to create a commercial fishery to enhance the local economy. Since then pink salmon have been gradually sneaking around scandinavia and now the british isles and Ireland.

[guzzicat]

As I understand it all species of Pacific Salmon spawn in fresh water as do Atlantic Salmon.....likewise their life cycles are similar, that explains why both species run up to the headwaters of rivers to the reds to spawn! They hatch and grow in fresh water, then as smolts they head downstream to the ocean, where they feed and grow to return to the river to start the whole cycle again, after spawning Pacific Salmon die...whereas many Atlantic Salmon return to the sea after spawning and complete the cycle again....

I am no scientist but I doubt the eggs, alevin, fry or parr could survive in saline water...whilst in the river the parr turn into smolts which enables them to make the transition from fresh to survive in salt water.

Pacific Salmon do not cut redds, eggs are free floating, totally different,eggs do not mature in fresh water

[panoma1]

Pacific Salmon do not cut redds, eggs are free floating, totally different,eggs do not mature in fresh water

It seems I stand corrected?

[billytheghillie]

east to identify, they have black mouths, a few been caught on the lower tweed.

[Uilleachan]

Pacific Salmon do not cut redds, eggs are free floating, totally different,eggs do not mature in fresh water

 

 

Not according to the information, here's the wiki page for PinK Salmon:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_salmon#Reproduction

 

Quote from the link:

 

"Pink salmon in their native range have a strict two year life cycle, thus odd and even-year populations do not interbreed. In the state of Washington, Pink salmon runs occur on odd years.^[3] Adult pink salmon enter spawning streams from the ocean, usually returning to the stream where they originated. Spawning occurs between late June and mid-October, in coastal streams and some longer rivers, and in the intertidal zone or at the mouth of streams if hyporheic freshwater is available. Using her tail, the female digs a trough-shaped nest, called a redd (Scandinavian word for "nest"), in the gravel of the stream bed, where she deposits her eggs. As she expels the eggs, she is approached by one or more males, which fertilize them as they fall into the redd. Subsequently, the female covers the newly deposited zygotes, again with thrusts of her tail, against the gravel at the top of the redd. The female lays from 1000 to 2000 eggs in several clutches within the redd, often fertilized by different males. Females guard their redds until death, which comes within days of spawning. In dense populations, a major source of mortality for embryos is superposition of redds by later-spawning fish. The eggs hatch from December to February, depending on water temperature, and the juveniles emerge from the gravel during March and April and quickly migrate downstream to estuaries, at about one-quarter gram in weight. The fish achieve sexual maturity in their second year of life. They return to freshwater in the summer or autumn as two-year-old adults. Pink and chum salmon sometimes interbreed in nature to form the hybrid known as the miko salmon^{[citation needed]}; the hybrids are sterile."

[Uilleachan]

Here's some footage taken by Ness District Fisheries on the River Ness, showing a pair of Pink Salmon spawning, or preparing to spawn. The female can be clearly seen tailing out a redd.

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-40922794

 

 

On the plus side, I was listening to a guy on the radio today who thought the Pink Salmon spawn may not be viable due to water temperature, that said Pink Salmon have a range that incorporates non glacial sub 60º latitude systems, so I'm not too sure that the likes of the Ness, sat about 57º Lat, will be any warmer than those rivers in summer time, loch ness doesn't change temperature much over the course of a year, the loch being the single largest body of fresh water in the UK, as a bit of trivia; loch ness alone contains twice the volume of standing water of England & Wales combined.

 

Time will tell.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Uilleachan

[nobbyathome]

Salmon do not feed in fresh water, personally I can not see a downside, can not hybridise,or interfere with Atlantic spawning, (different time of year), only provide a bonus to our i own Atlantic Salmon ,one to knock on the head instead of catch & release.

I know this might be a thick question but if salmon do not feed in fresh water how comes people catch them on flys etc

[Blackpowder]

 

WARNING

 

DAFT QUESTION AHEAD

 

How do they turn up in local rivers if (as I thought) they only returned to the river of their birth?

 

Not another (alleged) Ifor Williams / Muntjac migration is it?

Apparently Russians stocked some of their eastern rivers with Pacific salmon some time ago. It appears as if some of their progeny have found their way to British rivers.

 

Blackpower

[Blackpowder]

I know this might be a thick question but if salmon do not feed in fresh water how comes people catch them on flys etc

One of angling's great mysteries is that question. Flies in general do not resemble any creature living or dead, some do attempt to imitate prawn. shrimp or sandeel , who knows ?

 

Blackpowder

[scotslad]

As black powder say's it is a mystery.

 

Some think they're trying to signal aggression to get the salmon to bite while others might be triggering latent memory (worms, shrimps of various rapallaa/toby's etc)

They do say they are attracted to womens pheromones thou.