17 HMR Ammo issue

[Walker570]

Check ...sub standard product ...return for refund. Do this enough times and the manufacturers will find a way round it. As I say above, it is obviously easier/cheaper for CCI to put the primer in first, they should anneal then size then prime and the problem should go away.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Walker570

[hwr]

I'm all for pinning it Dekers, although as much as you like to state it, it was not a feature of website forums when I frequented them often and indeed was introduced to the round from them.

Anyway that's a mute point we agree it should be more commonly known.

 

I'm also not that bothered if they split on firing to be honest, but I don't want them leaving the factory like that ( split) as then you might get damp propellant and resultant squibs followed by possible blowback dangers that we've spoken about.

 

I've swapped the batch for a newer lot ( lol, autospell spelt beer instead of newer, tempting!) which are Remington and despite the fact that I believe from reading on here that CCI make all the 17 HMR cases they look a lot less 'stressed' at the neck and I found no splits.👍

I hope they are better and out of curiosity I will check the spent cases and report back.

 

I've also emailed Hornady

 

Cheers

H

Edited September 14, 2017 by hwr

[wymberley]

I'm all for pinning it Dekers, although as much as you like to state it, it was not a feature of website forums when I frequented them often and indeed was introduced to the round from them.

Anyway that's a mute point we agree it should be more commonly known.

 

I'm also not that bothered if they split on firing to be honest, but I don't want them leaving the factory like that ( split) as then you might get damp propellant and resultant squibs followed by possible blowback dangers that we've spoken about.

 

I've swapped the batch for a newer lot ( lol, autospell spelt beer instead of newer, tempting!) which are Remington and despite the fact that I believe from reading on here that CCI make all the 17 HMR cases they look a lot less 'stressed' at the neck and I found no splits.

I hope they are better and out of curiosity I will check the spent cases and report back.

 

I've also emailed Hornady

 

Cheers

H

Because they're the most accurate in my rifle, I use Remington. Initially, a few years back these also had the splits before firing and when present the accuracy could be all to pot. However, since that initial batch I've had no problems what-so-ever.

 

I've never had an answer to this question - yes, as it would seem that CCI make them all, but to whose specification do they make them; their own one standard or to their individual customers'?

[Graham M]

 

 

It hasn't been swept under the carpet, this is COMMON knowledge and has been going on for years...... As I pointed out in my earlier post.

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/are-these-split-rifle-shells-safe-19680

 

Particularly this part!!

 

Bob Palmer at Hornady, in an e-mailed reply to George’s enquiry:

 

CCI makes the cases for all the .17 HMR ammo and loads it for the different companies. When they make the cases they draw the case out to a .22mag case that has a straight wall. Then the priming compound is put in the rim of the case. The case is spun to put the primer evenly in the rim.

After the priming is complete the case mouth is reduced to the .17 calibre to hold the bullet. The reduction process, however, puts stress on the neck of the case. They obviously cannot anneal the neck of the case to relieve the stress because of the compound in the rim, so from time to time you will get a case that cracks. Some batches may produce more splits than others. The chamber pressure on .17 ammo is so low that it does not hurt the chamber on the rifle.

They have tried to anneal the cases more before it’s formed to .17, but this did not eliminate the cracks altogether. If the cracks were minor I would continue to use the ammo. The cracks do not affect the accuracy of the round and the brass is not reloadable.

 

Read more at http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/are-these-split-rifle-shells-safe-19680#YXJAqBXvtyF4UKJs.99

 

 

 

I don't think that this is true Dekers, because when I went for a tour around Eley a few years ago we watched how the .22 cases were wet primed using the "Eley Prime" method (something that CCI now uses) I asked how it was ensured that the primer went into the rim and was told that it was naturally sucked in by capillary action as there was no way that each individual case COULD be spun as they were primed in large batches in a holding jig.

Sometimes I think we are told something just to give us an answer (any answer)

[Walker570]

That tends to suggest that what we are getting is 22 Mag cases already primed then necked down. It would appear as I said that this is to cut corners/save money, whatever when they could anneal the cases and neck them down then put in the mixture.

[Turmoil]

I shot over 150 remington's on sunday all ok and checked a few cases no splits...

 

Just checked some federal and winchester and in both boxes each had 1 with a split on the neck...

[Graham M]

That tends to suggest that what we are getting is 22 Mag cases already primed then necked down. It would appear as I said that this is to cut corners/save money, whatever when they could anneal the cases and neck them down then put in the mixture.

That is exactly what they do because if they necked them down first they wouldn't have enough room at the neck to insert the nozzles for the wet prime.

You would have thought that they could have slimmed down these nozzles to fit the .17 cases so that they could be annealed prior to necking down...........or maybe there is some other issue that stops this?

[Dekers]

Nothing stays the same, and since the original email details I posted about CCI making all the HMR several manufacturers started making their own, most quickly gave up and production reverted to CCI, however, I actually asked CCI a while back if they made all the HMR and their reply is below.

MJ

cciexpert <cciexpert@ATK.com>

Tue 29/10/2013, 17:37

You

Deker, we don't make Winchester 17HMR ammunition and there may others.

Make Every Shot Count!
Justin M.
CCI/Speer
2299 Snake River Ave
Lewiston, ID. 83501

.........................................................................

Graham M has it above...HMR IS .22WMR necked down, that's how it came about and that's what it is. It does still beg the question why they haven't slimmed down primer filling nozzles to fit .17 necks. I don't know the answer, but I struggle to believe its simply because they can't be bothered.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Dekers

[Flyboy1950]

I doubt anything will change, probably because the accountants have got involved and it will cost to much to change the production

[hwr]

I doubt anything will change, probably because the accountants have got involved and it will cost to much to change the production

I would say the opposite, that's why it would change because of the risk of a lawsuit should someone get injured.

[telf]

I would say the opposite, that's why it would change because of the risk of a lawsuit should someone get injured.

i would like to think your right, but the HMR has been with us a long time now with millions of boxes of ammo sold,the issue still persists with god knows how many incidents being reported to the manufacturers and still it goes on . Until someone is critically injured or worse,or until someone takes on takes on the manufacturers in court im afraid the power of the dollar and the profits will out way any changes in manufacturing that will incur spending any of those all important dollar bills

[hwr]

I wonder how many they sell, probably not many in the scheme of things. But you're probably right, until someone is seriously injured and I would expect it would need to be in the states, a successful prosecution would make them change or even withdraw it from the shelfs .(if they didn't manage to settle out of court.)

I wonder how many they sell, probably not many in the scheme of things. But you're probably right, until someone is seriously injured and I would expect it would need to be in the states, a successful prosecution would make them change or even withdraw it from the shelfs .(if they didn't manage to settle out of court.)

[Flyboy1950]

All previous comments are of course valid in that the product has an inherent flaw, but In the grand scheme of things I doubt any thing will change The problem has been with us over ten years and nothing.

When you consider the number of fatalities and injuries in the States relating to car crashes alone, they still continue to produce sub standard vehicles until huge numbers get together to bring about a Class Action in court. Then the problem seems to get addressed. I can think of 2 problems off the top of my head one concerning cruse controls that would set them selves and then couldn't be reset and another of badly positioned fuel tanks which ruptured and caught fire in minor accidents.

Unfortunately in the case of HMR ammo (if such a class action could be under taken) I can see the manufacturer just pulling the plug leaving a lot of ****ed of firearms holders with useless firearms.

The HMR is a wildcat rimfire round and as such, is an evolutionary dinosaur, it cant evolve into anything else, it is what it is and we either accept it with its limitations or it goes extinct.

Personally I love it and wouldn't want to see it withdrawn from production, (in view of the fact there is only one manufacturer and they are only to well aware of the issues).

[Dekers]

All previous comments are of course valid in that the product has an inherent flaw, but In the grand scheme of things I doubt any thing will change The problem has been with us over ten years and nothing.

When you consider the number of fatalities and injuries in the States relating to car crashes alone, they still continue to produce sub standard vehicles until huge numbers get together to bring about a Class Action in court. Then the problem seems to get addressed. I can think of 2 problems off the top of my head one concerning cruse controls that would set them selves and then couldn't be reset and another of badly positioned fuel tanks which ruptured and caught fire in minor accidents.

Unfortunately in the case of HMR ammo (if such a class action could be under taken) I can see the manufacturer just pulling the plug leaving a lot of ****** of firearms holders with useless firearms.

The HMR is a wildcat rimfire round and as such, is an evolutionary dinosaur, it cant evolve into anything else, it is what it is and we either accept it with its limitations or it goes extinct.

Personally I love it and wouldn't want to see it withdrawn from production, (in view of the fact there is only one manufacturer and they are only to well aware of the issues).

 

 

There are at least 2 manufacturers! #58

Edited September 17, 2017 by Dekers

[Flyboy1950]

 

 

There are at least 2 manufacturers! #58

Ooops, sorry, my mistake, though my own opinion is that if one manufacturer gets a class action, the probability is that the round will disapear, no matter how many manufacturers there are.

[Dekers]

Ooops, sorry, my mistake, though my own opinion is that if one manufacturer gets a class action, the probability is that the round will disapear, no matter how many manufacturers there are.

 

There have already been a few accidents involving HMR ammo/rifles, and Semi Autos in HMR were withdrawn very quickly after they first started appearing due to ammo/safety concerns.

 

However, the only specific damage/injury I have seen has been down to squib rounds being stuck in the barrel, now that can happen to any ammo, but I certainly accept HMR is a little more prone to it than most.

 

The problem with a legal action in these circumstances does not revolve around the ammo, it revolves around the SHOOTER not paying attention or following safety guidelines, because they fired a second shot down a blocked barrel. However you dress it up that the ammo isn't up to scratch, the more the argument revolves around the shooter for not paying attention. The ammo manufacturers response is simple, the damage/injury was caused by the shooters negligent action! There lies the problem.

 

If you put a shout out to everyone who had a squib .243/.223/Hornet/etc./etc./etc. I am sure you would find enough people to bring a class action, so where does that leave ammo and shooting?

 

Please don't read anything into this post I haven't said, I accept and agree 100% that HMR ammo has its issues and consider that to be appalling...so I take extra care when using it!

[yetidude69]

In 3500 rounds of hornady iv never found a split neck before firing. But id say 20% have split necks once fired.

I personally love the round though and wouldnt be without it as its my go to for rabbits during daylight.

[Good shot?]

I have had two squib rounds (primer only fired and projectile went 2" or so up the barrel) with .17 HMR Hornady, this was 5 years ago and none since.

I am constantly aware and on the lookout for anything not quite right when shooting any rifle and like to also see the impact point.

I am not concerned about split cases after firing and the two squib round were not split.

[hwr]

I have had two squib rounds (primer only fired and projectile went 2" or so up the barrel) with .17 HMR Hornady, this was 5 years ago and none since.

I am constantly aware and on the lookout for anything not quite right when shooting any rifle and like to also see the impact point.

I am not concerned about split cases after firing and the two squib round were not split.

I think this sums it up as I was using up old ammo from a bad period. However my friend was not, (unless the shop had old stock )

Be careful

 

As an aside, I fired 3 shots from a new unstressed looking batch into the ground to check post fired cases, one sounded considerably different, it wasn't a dud but just to put that in the mix.

Be safe

H

[Michael Scotland]

I have had my rifle for approx 8 years and have had no bother with splitting of any kind . could it be that I am lucky.I checked all the ones I have and they also look fine the only thing I dislike about the round is the price maybe if you keep complaining the price will come down 😉

[hyflier]

Like others I have had plenty of split cases after firing the round. It has not affected accuracy in any way, being a low pressure round (compared to centre fire) and encased in a quality steel breech, I've never considered it to be dangerous. I have found the odd split case prior to firing and after a curious test shot, that didn't affect accuracy either, the laser guided bunny seeking missile still did its intended job.

 

I have had one squib round and my first thought was "Oh that was a misfire" waiting 30 seconds I slowly ejected the case to find an the bullet gone, yup the bullet was in the barrel but that was one out of a thousand and a damp evening at that.

[hwr]

I have had my rifle for approx 8 years and have had no bother with splitting of any kind . could it be that I am lucky.I checked all the ones I have and they also look fine the only thing I dislike about the round is the price maybe if you keep complaining the price will come down

 

[Flyboy1950]

Purchased a box of Hornady V-Max 17 gr Blue tips yesterday and opened this morning to check for neck splits. Found 19 had neck splits and 6 that had splits so long they were into the shoulder of the cartridge. These would be able to allow the ingress of moisture. Thought I would put this up as it is relevant to this thread. Am returning them later today.

[Flyboy1950]

Purchased a box of Hornady V-Max 17 gr Blue tips yesterday and opened this morning to check for neck splits. Found 19 had neck splits and 6 that had splits so long they were into the shoulder of the cartridge. These would be able to allow the ingress of moisture. Thought I would put this up as it is relevant to this thread. Am returning them later today.

Just changed the box from a newly opened (in front of me) brick and checked out replacement box. all of them are good.

May have to go back again Monday and get a few hundred more of this batch!.

[Gerry78]

Sold my HMR years ago and went back to 22 hornady i was buying had split cases even then