ANOTHER BETRAYAL

[pinfireman]

Once again, Comrade Corbyn betrays Britain....by  committing to staying in "a" Customs Union with the EU, and by definition committing us to staying in the Single Market! Is there no depths this odious little man will not sink to, in his quest for power?  How any patriotic Brit can vote Labour after this defeats me....

[Newbie to this]

How anybody can vote Labour after the Blair & Brown years is beyond me.

[Snoozer]

+1 to both your comments.

2 years June and the only winners are those that have lined their pockets off the back of the Vote !!!!!

[samboy]

Iv'e just had a labour candidate ring me up asking if i would vote for them. Told her where to go. 

[matone]

Clearly shows their duplicity .

Anything to try and gain power.

[walshie]

But if there isn't an election between now and leaving the single market what can he do? This is the man who reckoned he'd be PM by last Christmas. 

[TriBsa]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

How anybody can vote Labour after the Blair & Brown years is beyond me.

How anybody can vote Conservative after the Cameron & May years is beyond me. The next election, unless there is an emergence of a credible alternative, will see most people I think reluctantly voting for the party they least despise. Cameron and May have opened the door even wider to mass immigration and have held the population in  equal contempt to their Labour predecessors. We seem to be careering towards a Brexit in name only and a betrayal of our democratic vote. Our two party system has never looked shabbier. 

[oowee]

Keir Starmer for President I say.

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, TriBsa said:

How anybody can vote Conservative after the Cameron & May years is beyond me. The next election, unless there is an emergence of a credible alternative, will see most people I think reluctantly voting for the party they least despise. Cameron and May have opened the door even wider to mass immigration and have held the population in  equal contempt to their Labour predecessors. We seem to be careering towards a Brexit in name only and a betrayal of our democratic vote. Our two party system has never looked shabbier. 

Well, there was a possible 3 party system twice, but on neither occasion (UKIP and Lib/LibDem) has the 3rd party got anywhere significant.  UKIP has effectively disappeared as it was always pretty much a one man band (Nigel Farage) and one policy party (leave Europe) and he has retired (again) - and LibDems seem to pick the worst policies from both sides ...... and have mainly dreadful candidates (e.g. duplicitous Clegg, doddery Cable and the dishonest Huhne)

I could never vote for Labour because EVERY time we have had a Labour administration for any length of time, they have ruined the economy, forced up unemployment and made a complete mess.  Corbyn with his further left than recent labour policies would simply do the same faster and more severely - plus the idea of McDonald, Abbott and Thornberry in charge of or major departments of state is a nightmare.

Cameron and May have made a mess as well - principally (in my view) in both cases because their hands have been tied by the 'remain' wing of the party; Cameron tried to negotiate a better 'stay in' deal - and failed abysmally.  May will also fail unless she is enabled to make a proper clean break - so we can trade on a worldwide scale.  The likes of Dominic Grieve and Anna Souberry will do their best to prevent this and will very possibly bring the government down.  We then stand a real risk of a Corbyn fronted government - strings pulled by Len McLusky and Momentum.  Not a pleasant prospect at all.  The economic damage they will do will take decades to put right.

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

h cases because their hands have been tied by the 'remain' wing of the party; Cameron tried to negotiate a better 'stay in' deal - and failed abysmally.  May will also fail unless she is enabled to make a proper clean break - so we can trade on a worldwide scale.  The likes of Dominic Grieve and Anna Souberry will do their best to prevent this and will very possibly bring the government down.  We then stand a real risk of a Corbyn fronted government - strings pulled by Len McLusky and Momentum.  Not a pleasant prospect at all.  The economic damage they will do will take decades to put right.

Their hand are tied by the moderate (sensible) side and pushed by the extreme leave campaigners. 

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, oowee said:

Their hand are tied by the moderate (sensible) side and pushed by the extreme leave campaigners. 

I voted remain, but it was a close thing which way my vote went.  The country showed it wanted to leave, so leave it MUST be.  You seem to support those who wish to ignore the referendum outcome?  There was a referendum.  It gave a result.  That result must be acted on and we must leave the EU - Properly.  You can't have a referendum and ignore the outcome just because you don't like it.

[krugerandsmith]

16 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I voted remain, but it was a close thing which way my vote went.  The country showed it wanted to leave, so leave it MUST be.  You seem to support those who wish to ignore the referendum outcome?  There was a referendum.  It gave a result.  That result must be acted on and we must leave the EU - Properly.  You can't have a referendum and ignore the outcome just because you don't like it.

Amen to that.

 

 

[Vince Green]

Jeremy Corbyn has been one of the EU's biggest critics for years. The fact that he has now suddenly come out on 'the other side' has nothing to do with Brexit and nothing to do with the EU.

He is just adopting a position to undermine May's negotiating position in Europe and weaken it.

What he is fully aware of is the fact that in weakening May's position he also weaken's Britain's position at the negotiating table. Junker and his merry little band will be further encouraged to prevaricate and make trouble. Why would they not do that? when if they succeed in bringing down May they can wait for Corbyn.

He knows exactly what he is doing and he is prepared to sell Britain down the river in order to get what he wants. No suprises there then, the man is a communist remember, nothing matters except the party Comrade 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Vince Green

[oowee]

34 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I voted remain, but it was a close thing which way my vote went.  The country showed it wanted to leave, so leave it MUST be.  You seem to support those who wish to ignore the referendum outcome?  There was a referendum.  It gave a result.  That result must be acted on and we must leave the EU - Properly.  You can't have a referendum and ignore the outcome just because you don't like it.

There are many shades of grey. 

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, TriBsa said:

How anybody can vote Conservative after the Cameron & May years is beyond me. The next election, unless there is an emergence of a credible alternative, will see most people I think reluctantly voting for the party they least despise. Cameron and May have opened the door even wider to mass immigration and have held the population in  equal contempt to their Labour predecessors. We seem to be careering towards a Brexit in name only and a betrayal of our democratic vote. Our two party system has never looked shabbier. 

I totally agree,

But to my mind the Conservatives are by far the lesser evil, Labour will just do what Labour do best, borrow, borrow and borrow some more, promise the world to all and their father and deliver at the expense of the national debt. Then whomever comes in after will have to deal with the mess and get hated for it, and so the vicious circle goes on.

We need one of two things in this group of Countries

• A viable alternative to the two main couldn't organise a **** up in a brewery parties
• Proportional representation

And let's not forget the fact that Jeremy Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser along with Dianne Abbott and anyone who thinks she will be good for the Country must be mad.

Labour is not for the working class anymore, they stand for the non working and students.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

There are many shades of grey. 

This was black and white - there was nothing grey about it

Remain or Leave.  the vote went Leave  - so leave it must be.

[Tim Kelly]

39 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I voted remain, but it was a close thing which way my vote went.  The country showed it wanted to leave, so leave it MUST be.  You seem to support those who wish to ignore the referendum outcome?  There was a referendum.  It gave a result.  That result must be acted on and we must leave the EU - Properly.  You can't have a referendum and ignore the outcome just because you don't like it.

To me, the closeness of the vote indicates that we should leave, but in the "softest" way possible. Had it been a 70% leave vote, then a "hard" Brexit would be justified, but as it is, there is no option other than trying to leave the political union with as little alteration to the "common market" we joined as possible.

[old man]

3 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

How anybody can vote Labour after the Blair & Brown years is beyond me.

Agreed but we really do need a trustworthy, viable, honest, sensible alternative?

Ok, given in, off to lie down now.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

 

We need one of two things in this group of Countries

• A viable alternative to the two main couldn't organise a **** up in a brewery parties
• Proportional representation

And let's not forget the fact that Jeremy Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser along with Dianne Abbott and anyone who thinks she will be good for the Country must be mad.

Labour is not for the working class anymore, they stand for the non working and students.

The only thing I don't agree with is proportional representation; it brings about weak governments with no majorities.  There was a referendum about PR, brought about by calamity Clegg, but it got soundly turned down.

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

This was black and white - there was nothing grey about it

Remain or Leave.  the vote went Leave  - so leave it must be.

Leave the EU yes. Leave the customs union? We did not vote for that.

4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The only thing I don't agree with is proportional representation; it brings about weak governments with no majorities.  There was a referendum about PR, brought about by calamity Clegg, but it got soundly turned down.

Or moderate Governments that rule by consensus.

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, Tim Kelly said:

To me, the closeness of the vote indicates that we should leave, but in the "softest" way possible. Had it been a 70% leave vote, then a "hard" Brexit would be justified, but as it is, there is no option other than trying to leave the political union with as little alteration to the "common market" we joined as possible.

Barmier, Juncker, Tusk & Co say we can't 'pick and choose'.  It is ESSENTIAL that we are free to trade outside the EU on our own terms.  I'm sure we would love to trade with the EU on fair no tariff conditions, but as things stand they say no free people movement = no free trade.  No EU rules (in which we will have no say) = no free trade.

What we need is fair trade, but without people migration and imposed rules (i.e. can't have a vacuum cleaner above XXX Watts imposed on us.   Once we are out - then trade deals can be negotiated fairly both outside and inside the EU.

[Newbie to this]

13 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The only thing I don't agree with is proportional representation; it brings about weak governments with no majorities.  There was a referendum about PR, brought about by calamity Clegg, but it got soundly turned down.

I see your point about PR, then maybe every vote should count and not just in constituencies a % of the vote for a % of the seats. Edit Oh wait that is PR  forget this statement

I don’t remember a vote on PR, I remember the vote on alternative voting.

9 minutes ago, oowee said:

Leave the EU yes. Leave the customs union? We did not vote for that.

We did, both sides made it very clear

Edited February 26, 2018 by Newbie to this
Forgot what PR was

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Leave the customs union? We did not vote for that.

It is a part of the EU - The EU has told us we can't 'pick and choose' bits.

1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

I don’t remember a vote on PR, I remember the vote on alternative voting.

OK - that is the one I meant as I think PR was one of the suggested to be alternatives offered.

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

It is a part of the EU - The EU has told us we can't 'pick and choose' bits.

But we are. The process of picking bits started with;-

The divorce agreement reached between the UK and EU in December, Britain promised that “no new regulatory barriers” would emerge between the mainland and Northern Ireland.

[Tim Kelly]

4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Barmier, Juncker, Tusk & Co say we can't 'pick and choose'.  It is ESSENTIAL that we are free to trade outside the EU on our own terms.  I'm sure we would love to trade with the EU on fair no tariff conditions, but as things stand they say no free people movement = no free trade.  No EU rules (in which we will have no say) = no free trade.

What we need is fair trade, but without people migration and imposed rules (i.e. can't have a vacuum cleaner above XXX Watts imposed on us.   Once we are out - then trade deals can be negotiated fairly both outside and inside the EU.

I disagree. I believe we should be part of an european union, just not this one. It is fundamentally undemocratic and as it has evolved into a political union it needs to be democratic in the sense we understand, ie political parties with defined policies which we can vote for or against, europe wide. The benefits of being a part of the greater europe far outweigh costs, but it does need to be accountable. Migration is one of those things that will ebb and flow as particular countries are doing relatively better or worse than other ones. I live in London and have always been used to a mix of people and don't find it threatening in the way large parts of the country seem to.