How will brexit effect shooting in the UK

[Gordon R]

Quote

In which case you need to read more, study the economic data and watch the news bulletins. If you do not have a pretty good idea  what a hard or soft Brexit is by now you must be living in a bubble.

No need to show your stupidity. I see enough to know that no-one, but no-one has a clear picture of what Brexit actually means. Hard or soft are just sound bites, used by people who haven't a clue as to what they mean in reality.  I trust your "facts" didn't come from studying economic data. Perhaps you could publish some real facts.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

As I understand it, European shooting organisations are represented throughout Europe including the UK.....by FACE, post Brexit that will not change!

It was not the EU that put the skids under the antis attempts to ban Grouse shooting in the UK was it?...It was our people/government! 

Whether we are in the EU or out of it, makes no difference "one serious anti shooting government, and we will be in trouble"

 

True, however for citizens in the EU there would be a second level of protection, through the European Courts that seeks to protect citizens from the excesses of government. 

 

[panoma1]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

True, however for citizens in the EU there would be a second level of protection, through the European Courts that seeks to protect citizens from the excesses of government. 

 

On the poitive side the European Court couldn't compel the people and the Government of the UK to comply with their legislative excesses!.....which the UK does, but many countries in the EU just ignore!

[anser2]

3 hours ago, panoma1 said:

As I understand it, European shooting organisations are represented throughout Europe including the UK.....by FACE, post Brexit that will not change!

It was not the EU that put the skids under the antis attempts to ban Grouse shooting in the UK was it?...It was our people/government! 

Whether we are in the EU or out of it, makes no difference "one serious anti shooting government, and we will be in trouble"

 

But it was not the EU who made any attempt to ban grouse shooting, it was our own people in the Uk. If the threat became serious then we could have taken the case to the EU Court of justice and with its European pro shooting background would have been likely to back us. To put any blame on the EU is plain wrong.

Edited July 3, 2018 by anser2

[anser2]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

 

Sounds plucked out of the air to me maybe

 

You are right plucked out of the air from BBC radio, Sky News and BBC Newsnight.

 

[anser2]

2 hours ago, Smokersmith said:

To be clear on this ... I think that the UK is a strong nation, and more than capable of prospering outside the EU.

With no deal ...... trading with the EU will have tariffs apply according to the WTO rules .... FACT. With all the BS flying around, I'm not sure everyone gets that.

 ... if anser2's figure of 22% is correct ... then that will be the increase ... end of.

It's part of my job role to understand the impact of a no deal Brexit on our business ... so I understand the tariffs for all the goods we use, and the associated on-cost. Not pretty for us.

Like I've said before ... let's hope May and her team can find a palatable solution, that avoids some of this impact which would hit UK shoppers pockets hard. 

Stevo ... I think you took my 'moaning' comment personally ... I know your shooting budget seem to have no bounds ... so that was more of a general comment for others !!

Smokersmith , the comment was general and not directed to you , in fact agreeing with you. the WTO tariff 22% comes from BBC and Sky news. I guess the effect of brexit will depend on where and what you trade in. I have 2 friends who are both in the

 financial wealth creation sector ( you know at least one of them ) and their analysis is that yes we will be ok in 20 - 30 years time , but its going to be a very rough ride getting there and by the time we see any benefit most of on here will be dead and long gone. 

 

As for my shooting budget , I live on less than 12K a year so my shooting budget is quite limited and mainly restricted to wildfowling and pigeon shooting. Game shooting is well out of my pocket , though I do get the odd guest invitations.

Edited July 3, 2018 by anser2

[Newbie to this]

8 minutes ago, anser2 said:

You are right plucked out of the air from BBC radio, Sky News and BBC Newsnight.

 

Absolutely, because the fact is no one knows. It's all just a guess 

[anser2]

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

On the poitive side the European Court couldn't compel the people and the Government of the UK to comply with their legislative excesses!.....which the UK does, but many countries in the EU just ignore!

And that is the daft part. When other countries do not tow the line and respect the ECJ why should we. Look at the Eastern European countries closing their borders to muslim migrants. Yes the EU will bluster and moan, but will they do anything about it. I doubt it. And thats what David Camaron should have done when he had his show down with the EU, instead he caved it. 

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

No need to show your stupidity. I see enough to know that no-one, but no-one has a clear picture of what Brexit actually means. Hard or soft are just sound bites, used by people who haven't a clue as to what they mean in reality.  I trust your "facts" didn't come from studying economic data. Perhaps you could publish some real facts.

Not showing any stupidity, but you seem to be so typical of so many Brexit voters of very poor intelligence ( and that's a fact just look at the research published on TV after the vote). Just look it up.

1 hour ago, oowee said:

True, however for citizens in the EU there would be a second level of protection, through the European Courts that seeks to protect citizens from the excesses of government. 

 

And we lose that protection outside the EU making shooting more vulnerable

to the anties.

[Bazooka Joe]

Quote

and their analysis is that yes we will be ok in 20 - 30 years time , but its going to be a very rough ride getting there and by the time we see any benefit most of on here will be dead and long gone. 

Then surely that's a goal worth seeking, in fact it'll be a record, it took 45yr to get entwined in EU.

[Rewulf]

10 hours ago, anser2 said:

Rewulf , if what you say is true then prove it.  There are no inaccuracies or supposition in the post , but like so many pro Brexit voters is that your ears are closed to anyone with a different opinion to your own.

 

OK ,so you want me to 'prove' your supposition wrong, an oxymoron if ever I saw one, but here goes.

12 hours ago, anser2 said:

The Europeans are very strong in supporting shooting and in many countries, it has a stronger traditional position with the people that here in the UK. We will no longer have that support outside the EU and be at the whim of the electorate and politicians. One serious anti shooting government and we are in trouble once the restraints of the EU are gone.
As per usual you have made EUROPE and the EU sound like they are the same entity, you do realise they are 2 separate things ?
Europeans are supportive of shooting sports, the EU are not, do you not recall their attempts (ongoing) to put a blanket ban on semi autos ?
Reason= to stop terrorism ! Because we all know terrorists use legally held firearms dont we ?!
Nothing to do with open borders and uncontrolled immigration I suppose?
So your first inaccuracy is that the EU somehow protects our shooting rights, completely wrong.

There is going to be less money for environmentally friendly farming outside the EU. This is already happening as the agreements are over long time scales and with us leaving the EU will no longer back new schemes and the Uk government will not pick up all the shortfall. This will result in more intensive farming and a decline in wildlife including our game birds.
How on earth do you know this !?
Crystal ball, or the  Guardian/Indy ?
You know what the government is going to do?
Supposition, and pretty wild at that.

Any sporting goods that are made in the EU will cost more, maybe only 6-10% with a soft brexit , but 22% with a hard Brexit and we have to trade under WTO rules. And that will be on top of any inflation price rises.
Really ? So with a supposedly 'soft' Brexit ie, not a real Brexit, we still get a price hit, but with a no deal Brexit WTO tariffs will be 22% ?
I wonder if BMW, VAG and Mercedes realise their cars are going to cost 22 % more in this country, or will they swallow the hit and reduce profits accordingly ?
You do realise WTO tariffs have to apply to everything, you cant single out the bits you want.
Very wild and inaccurate supposition.

If we do get an influx of Dutch or any other EU shooters , demand will increase the costs for English shooters.
Supposition, what are we talking, a couple of thousand of dutch shooters willing to travel?
Hardly likely to tip the scale is it?
Im surprised you didnt say that all wildlife in the UK will be eaten by starving townies, who cant afford EU meat anymore due to Brexit.

Thats a lot less than a 50% increase. cant say exactly how much lower that 50% , 33% might be a better guess, because we do not know what the something is?  Free popcorn perhaps.

Thats all youve done here, made doom and gloom guesses , based on what youve read out of pro EU rags and your own imagination.

 

[Gordon R]

Quote

Not showing any stupidity, but you seem to be so typical of so many Brexit voters of very poor intelligence ( and that's a fact just look at the research published on TV after the vote). Just look it up.

I am far more intelligent than you, but cannot see why you abuse all persons in favour of Brexit.

To demonstrate your over inflated ego, perhaps you can define "soft" and "hard" Brexit. Your definitive answer will no doubt guide government policy as to what to aim for. Please don't tell me to research / Google or watch the news. That is the last resort of a bankrupt argument. No substance - just hot air.

PS - do some work on your grammar and stop keep using "just". It makes you seem more limited than you probably are.

[panoma1]

1 hour ago, anser2 said:

But it was not the EU who made any attempt to ban grouse shooting, it was our own people in the Uk. If the threat became serious then we could have taken the case to the EU Court of justice and with its European pro shooting background would have been likely to back us. To put any blame on the EU is plain wrong.

No it wasn't and I didn't say it was the EU that tried to ban Grouse shooting!?...........are you seriously suggesting if Grouse shooting had been banned as a result of the antis lobbying the UK government, someone could have taken the case to the ECJ and they would have 'likely' overturned it? ? ?

 

[motty]

13 hours ago, anser2 said:

The Europeans are very strong in supporting shooting and in many countries, it has a stronger traditional position with the people that here in the UK. We will no longer have that support outside the EU and be at the whim of the electorate and politicians. One serious anti shooting government and we are in trouble once the restraints of the EU are gone.

There is going to be less money for environmentally friendly farming outside the EU. This is already happening as the agreements are over long time scales and with us leaving the EU will no longer back new schemes and the Uk government will not pick up all the shortfall. This will result in more intensive farming and a decline in wildlife including our game birds.

Any sporting goods that are made in the EU will cost more, maybe only 6-10% with a soft brexit , but 22% with a hard Brexit and we have to trade under WTO rules. And that will be on top of any inflation price rises.

If we do get an influx of Dutch or any other EU shooters , demand will increase the costs for English shooters.

Thats a lot less than a 50% increase. cant say exactly how much lower that 50% , 33% might be a better guess, because we do not know what the something is?  Free popcorn perhaps.

 

I think you should move to Brussels.

[Smokersmith]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

You do realise WTO tariffs have to apply to everything, you cant single out the bits you want.
Very wild and inaccurate supposition.

This isn't correct ... there is a schedule that applies different tariffs to different goods.

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

This isn't correct ... there is a schedule that applies different tariffs to different goods.

But anser 'knows' that sporting goods will be 22 % , is that correct ?

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

True, however for citizens in the EU there would be a second level of protection, through the European Courts that seeks to protect citizens from the excesses of government. 

 

The European court is nothing to do with the EU. Its run by the Council of Europe, we are not leaving that.

The Council of Europe is the real deal, The EU are gangsters

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Vince Green

[Gordon R]

Quote

 

Any sporting goods that are made in the EU will cost more, maybe only 6-10% with a soft brexit , but 22% with a hard Brexit and we have to trade under WTO rules. And that will be on top of any inflation price rises.

If we do get an influx of Dutch or any other EU shooters , demand will increase the costs for English shooters.

Thats a lot less than a 50% increase. cant say exactly how much lower that 50% , 33% might be a better guess, because we do not know what the something is?

 

Quote

6-10% with a soft brexit , but 22% with a hard Brexit

I love the way that stats mad anser2 is now guessing. Still waiting for the definitive view on what is hard or soft Brexit. When anser2 provides these, perhaps we can then scrutinise the figures.

[Vince Green]

6 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I love the way that stats mad anser2 is now guessing. Still waiting for the definitive view on what is hard or soft Brexit. When anser2 provides these, perhaps we can then scrutinise the figures.

Gordon, WTO tariff is 3.8% that's what we will be charging on goods coming in, we already do that with the rest of the world.

I can't imagine where the other figures came from.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Vince Green

[Gordon R]

Thanks for that Vince.

anser2 has a fertile imagination. It must light up an otherwise dull life.

[anser2]

Quote Rwulf - There is going to be less money for environmentally friendly farming outside the EU. This is already happening as the agreements are over long time scales and with us leaving the EU will no longer back new schemes and the UK government will not pick up all the shortfall. This will result in more intensive farming and a decline in wildlife including our game birds.
How on earth do you know this !?

 

Because I talk to farmers , I used to work in Environmental schemes  and am still in close contact  with many of my ex colleagues. I watch the news and farming programs and read  the newspapers both left and right wing ( and farming ).

 

Quote Rwulf - You know what the government is going to do?

The government has made it very clear that Environmental grants are no longer going to cover the wider countryside , but will be targeted to specific areas.

Supposition, and pretty wild at that.

 

The supposition is informed and a realistic  assessment of the situation.

 

What do you base your information on ?  Boris and his pie in the sky. If we stay inside the EU the grants system is planed to continue for the foreseeable future.

 

Any sporting goods that are made in the EU will cost more, maybe only 6-10% with a soft brexit , but 22% with a hard Brexit and we have to trade under WTO rules. And that will be on top of any inflation price rises.

Quote Rwulf - Really ? So with a supposedly 'soft' Brexit ie, not a real Brexit, we still get a price hit, but with a no deal Brexit WTO tariffs will be 22% ?
I wonder if BMW, VAG and Mercedes realise their cars are going to cost 22 % more in this country, or will they swallow the hit and reduce profits accordingly ?

 

I stand by every word , but will not be available for several days for further comment

You do realise WTO tariffs have to apply to everything, you cant single out the bits you want.

 

Of course I do. If we have a hard brexit and trade under WTO rules everything , both imports and exports will have a tariff, though the food is likely to be at a different scale. Farmers are set to lose out badly from Brexit. According to “ Farmers weekly “ even with a soft Brexit livestock farmers incomes are going to fall by around 6% and with a hard Brexit 35*% drop is likely. Even if these numbers  are a little out in no case could the Farmers Weekly find anything positive from the outcome of Brexit.

 

Of course BMW and the other car makers realise this. That is why they are withholding and reducing  investment in the UK. Don’t you watch the TV news.

Very wild and inaccurate supposition.

Pure rubbish

 

Quote Rwulf - If we do get an influx of Dutch or any other EU shooters , demand will increase the costs for English shooters.
Supposition, what are we talking, a couple of thousand of Dutch shooters willing to travel?
Hardly likely to tip the scale is it? Yes it is.

 

Of course any increase in demand on a limited supply will raise prices no matter what the product. Top game shooting is a very limited resource and several thousand new shooters in the market will have a knock on effect. Pure common sense.

 

Quote Rwulf - The Europeans are very strong in supporting shooting and in many countries, it has a stronger traditional position with the people that here in the UK. We will no longer have that support outside the EU and be at the whim of the electorate and politicians. One serious anti shooting government and we are in trouble once the restraints of the EU are gone.
As per usual you have made EUROPE and the EU sound like they are the same entity, you do realise they are 2 separate things ?From the many Europeans I know in Holland, France and Sweden the EU is a very strong part of their lives and the EU is closely integrated in it. Pressure from Europeans in support will have a strong influence on the EU.

 

Quote Rwulf - Europeans are supportive of shooting sports, the EU are not, do you not recall their attempts (ongoing) to put a blanket ban on semi autos ?
Reason= to stop terrorism ! Because we all know terrorists use legally held firearms don’t we ?!

 

Yes and this was in response to the French Terror attack where  well a large number of French were killed . Exactly the same pressure would happen in the UK if we had an attack where large numbers of people were killed with S\A guns. So no difference between EU\UK policy.

Nothing to do with open borders and uncontrolled immigration I suppose?
So your first inaccuracy is that the EU somehow protects our shooting rights, completely wrong.

 

 Quite the opposite , but your mind is too blind to see it.

 

Its so easy to dislike the EU . I do , but there is no getting away from the fact that’s it been very good for this country. Its like a Drs medicine we do not like it , but its good for us. Thanks to the EU we have gone from being the 10^th largest world economies to the 5^th, that is until Brexit proposals and already we have w the worse performing economy in the EU and have slipped to the 6^th largest economy.

 

Your response clearly shows how little you understand on the subject with your opinions coloured by hear say and ill-informed information. Broaden your reading base and open your eyes.

Edited July 4, 2018 by anser2

[panoma1]

Anser2, were the environmental schemes that provided your employment, funded by or dependent on grants, funds etc from the EU?

The UK being a member of the EU benefitted only those individuals or organisations that received funding and/or grants from the EU.................Those that benefitted are the "remainers" we hear incessantly bleating about what a disaster Brexit is going to be! For them it will be! .......Because these individuals and organisations can no longer live off the handouts from the EU!........Handouts to the few which were financed by everyone in the UK!

 

[Rewulf]

13 minutes ago, anser2 said:

 

Your response clearly shows how little you understand on the subject with your opinions coloured by hear say and ill-informed information. Broaden your reading base and open your eyes.

Whereas your information comes from rock solid reliable sources like Farmers Weekly ?
Do a little research yourself and see who owns and runs Farmers Weekly, and I can assure you it isnt  farmers !

The rest is just gobblydook, youve just repeated yourself, you have no idea where the guns came from that were used in the  Paris attacks, suffice to say they travelled freely through the EU ,as have the 100 + grenades used in attacks in Sweden since 2016, and god knows what else.

You have stated several times that you believe your investments will suffer if we leave ,and that is your primary reason for wanting 6 more referendums until you get what YOU want.
So please dont try to make out you are worried about wildlife and farmers profits.

Farmers will continue to get the equivalent CAP monies until this country realises its time we started being more self sufficient food wise.
Many farmers Ive spoken to are very happy for Brexit, and the opportunities possible with its correct implementation.

I would get your head round the fact its happening, very soon , and lose the forlorn hope of it being overturned at the last minute.
The sooner pro EU people resign themselves to this ,and start planning for no deal eventualities, the better.
Youve talked yourself into a believing its a nightmare scenario, because thats what the media is making you do.

[Gordon R]

anser2 - any chance of the description of "hard" and "soft" Brexit? I am beginning to think you are avoiding answering, even with your "superior" Remainer intelligence.

PS - whilst your grammar remains poor, your use of bold type is unnecessary.

[Scully]

Surely any monies received by UK farmers from the EU, is already our own money? We pay it to the EU and they decide how much of it we get back?

[Vince Green]

22 minutes ago, Scully said:

Surely any monies received by UK farmers from the EU, is already our own money? We pay it to the EU and they decide how much of it we get back?

You are slightly wrong on that. It should read "We pay it to the EU and they decide how LITTLE we get back"