guy baxendale Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 I am curious if anyone has tested how far steel shot will travel? Information seem varied and anecdotal. And if you haven't tested it..... how far do people think say a #3 steel pellet in average conditions (not shooting downwind with a gale behind you) shot at 45 degrees would carry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 50 minutes ago, guy baxendale said: I am curious if anyone has tested how far steel shot will travel? Information seem varied and anecdotal. And if you haven't tested it..... how far do people think say a #3 steel pellet in average conditions (not shooting downwind with a gale behind you) shot at 45 degrees would carry? I have never tested the distance steel shot can travel , although with members often reporting dropping geese at 50+ yrds I would think it could travel around the 100 yd mark , shooting against a strong wind and using modern tight chokes could make a difference one way or the other . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 I seem to recall that a few years ago when steel shot was starting to be used for clay shooting, the C.P.S.A. upped the safety margins for shot fallout. My steel shot often travels as far as Scotland annually ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 If we assume No 3 is 0.134"/3.4mm with a MV of 1400 ft/sec then at 22 degrees which is the optimum angle - and I can't give the 45 figure anyway - the distance in theory is 265 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 I know back in the 70s when I did a whole lot of clay shooting the safety zone should be 300yrds from each stand. I would think for steel it is going to be very similar give or take 25yrds. Put it like this , even at that range I would not appreciate standing there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Walker570 said: I know back in the 70s when I did a whole lot of clay shooting the safety zone should be 300yrds from each stand. I would think for steel it is going to be very similar give or take 25yrds. Put it like this , even at that range I would not appreciate standing there. what 300 yards or 25 yards ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) I think steel shot fallout is far less than lead. When shooting close to a road a couple of years back, I got Jules to fire towards me. I was standing close to the road and Jules was at the intended hide position. I expected the shot to easily reach, but it didn't. I don't know the exact distance, but it was around 200 yards. The cartridges used were Gamebore 32gm 4s. Edited October 16, 2018 by motty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, motty said: I think steel shot fallout is far less than lead. When shooting close to a road a couple of years back, I got Jules to fire towards me. I was standing close to the road and Jules was at the intended hide position. I expected the shot to easily reach, but it didn't. I don't know the exact distance, but it was around 200 yards. The cartridges used were Gamebors 32gm 4s. Or Jules was having an off day.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, motty said: I think steel shot fallout is far less than lead. When shooting close to a road a couple of years back, I got Jules to fire towards me. I was standing close to the road and Jules was at the intended hide position. I expected the shot to easily reach, but it didn't. I don't know the exact distance, but it was around 200 yards. The cartridges used were Gamebors 32gm 4s. interesting that thought about doing that myself, but you need to get the trajectory right if he aimed straight at you it would drop to the ground before it got near you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, yickdaz said: interesting that thought about doing that myself, but you need to get the trajectory right if he aimed straight at you it would drop to the ground before it got near you I have tried this out a few times over the years where I have had concerns of shot falling where it shouldn't. It is always a few shots taken at the approximate optimal angles, so as to cut out mistakes etc. One such place I have shot several times has people walking along the river bank from time to time. The shot reaches the river bank, so we don't fire that way when we see someone approaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 11 hours ago, Westley said: I seem to recall that a few years ago when steel shot was starting to be used for clay shooting, the C.P.S.A. upped the safety margins for shot fallout. My steel shot often travels as far as Scotland annually ! As far as I can remember, the only distance that was changed was the splash back distane which was doubled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Are we then guessing that the accepted 300 yds for lead is adequate for steel as it is less dense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 7 hours ago, motty said: I have tried this out a few times over the years where I have had concerns of shot falling where it shouldn't. It is always a few shots taken at the approximate optimal angles, so as to cut out mistakes etc. One such place I have shot several times has people walking along the river bank from time to time. The shot reaches the river bank, so we don't fire that way when we see someone approaching. surprising that is ok we know steel is less dense so wont travel as far as lead but I would of thought it would carry 200yards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 If some of the distances mentioned that steel shot can reach 250 / 300 yds , then surely it would still have striking energy way above what is normally agreed on the maximum range for geese at around 50 yds , if this was the case I dread to think at the range at some people would try to shoot geese at , although having said that , some of the ranges I have seen geese fired at , the maximum distance might well be right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
243deer Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Cannot comment on steel shot only lead Mate and myself decoying a nice few birds on rape stubble on the top of a hill. Strong wind and all missed/startled/scared birds were exiting downwind on the same path. Knowing there was a ditch 300 yards away from the hide and around 50 feet below it, I ambled down in pursuit of mopping up some extra birds, safety glasses on as at that time I did not know exactly how far 30g of lead #6 shot would carry, plastic wad as that is all we used back then, . I could hear my mates shot hitting the stubble I guesstimated 50 - 75 yards away. During a lull in birds he attempted to get the shot to land as close to me as he could - we had 2 way radios and I acted as spotter. We never did manage closer than 50 yards to me. So in my very limited experience it seems to me that max range for lead in #6 shot is 250 yards indicating that the oft quoted 300 yards gives a 20% safety margin. Would be interested to hear other folks real life experiences as safety margins are always useful to know when backed up with more than theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, 243deer said: Cannot comment on steel shot only lead Mate and myself decoying a nice few birds on rape stubble on the top of a hill. Strong wind and all missed/startled/scared birds were exiting downwind on the same path. Knowing there was a ditch 300 yards away from the hide and around 50 feet below it, I ambled down in pursuit of mopping up some extra birds, safety glasses on as at that time I did not know exactly how far 30g of lead #6 shot would carry, plastic wad as that is all we used back then, . I could hear my mates shot hitting the stubble I guesstimated 50 - 75 yards away. During a lull in birds he attempted to get the shot to land as close to me as he could - we had 2 way radios and I acted as spotter. We never did manage closer than 50 yards to me. So in my very limited experience it seems to me that max range for lead in #6 shot is 250 yards indicating that the oft quoted 300 yards gives a 20% safety margin. Would be interested to hear other folks real life experiences as safety margins are always useful to know when backed up with more than theory. Yep, you're right not to rely on theory as shown by my earlier figure which is incorrect. I'm loathe to say this as shortly after joining PW I did say it and was soundly chastised for being far too scientific and useing advanced mathematics in the form of algebra. There is a known somewhat empirical formula which for all practical purposes gives a reasonable assessment for the more usual shot sizes. The formula is 1500 divided by cube root n and this method reflects that my earlier 265 is 5 yards out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy baxendale Posted October 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 16 hours ago, wymberley said: If we assume No 3 is 0.134"/3.4mm with a MV of 1400 ft/sec then at 22 degrees which is the optimum angle - and I can't give the 45 figure anyway - the distance in theory is 265 yards. Thanks - how would BB's compare with the same formula? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, guy baxendale said: Thanks - how would BB's compare with the same formula? My first figure referred to steel, so BBs steel or lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) BBs wont be much further more weight but larger surface area so more resistance. Steel gets to a point then just drops off rapidly shot is poor ballistically. Ther are some charts somewhere online for steel shot travel distance. Edited October 17, 2018 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy baxendale Posted October 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, wymberley said: My first figure referred to steel, so BBs steel or lead? Steel please Also just to clarify my understanding of your earlier answer.....shot will carry furthest at an angle of 22 degrees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, guy baxendale said: Steel please Also just to clarify my understanding of your earlier answer.....shot will carry furthest at an angle of 22 degrees? 307 yards at 21 degrees. As just indicated the angle will alter dependent upon the size and velocity of the pellet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy baxendale Posted October 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 21 minutes ago, wymberley said: 307 yards at 21 degrees. As just indicated the angle will alter dependent upon the size and velocity of the pellet. Thanks very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
243deer Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Wymberly, having studied mathematics at uni I would be very interested in what assumptions are being made with regards to your empirical formula, is it the result of significant testing? I once did a project on the 'ballistics' of a golf ball on the moon assuming the moons gravitational pull and zero resistance (this was the nearest I was allowed to get to proper ballistics without upsetting folk - even way back then the snowflakes were gaining hold), the best angle for a drive turned out to be approx 40 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 6 hours ago, marsh man said: If some of the distances mentioned that steel shot can reach 250 / 300 yds , then surely it would still have striking energy way above what is normally agreed on the maximum range for geese at around 50 yds , if this was the case I dread to think at the range at some people would try to shoot geese at , although having said that , some of the ranges I have seen geese fired at , the maximum distance might well be right after firing over 1000 steel carts at pigeons this summer up to now I have mixed feelings about steel sometimes you pull down a bird at 50 yards and think bloody hell they aren't supposed to kill that far out then you hit a bird at 30 yards with a plume of feathers out of them and think how are you still flying on then fly on and die also see exit holes in birds were the shot has passed straight through the bird that could be the answer its that hard it passes through them and they don't react straight away then bleed out and die either on the wing or when they land within minutes they die it will never replace lead for consistant kills but could live with shooting steel if nothing else was allowed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy baxendale Posted October 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, yickdaz said: could live with shooting steel if nothing else was allowed Personally i think a total lead ban is inevitable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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