Rewulf Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 Just now, NoBodyImportant said: Lol, we are seperated by a ocean but that statement could be used in America also. Tell me about it ! Liberals making excuses for others criminal behaviour, they live on a different planet. One with a lot of snow 😃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: Tell me about it ! Liberals making excuses for others criminal behaviour, they live on a different planet. One with a lot of snow 😃 Why oh why do liberal snowflake types ignore and/or deny facts when it relates to sensitive PC issues? Find the truth and act upon it, is the way forward, going soft, making excuses, pretending it isn't happening and ignoring it, just hasn't worked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, panoma1 said: going soft, making excuses, pretending it isn't happening and ignoring it, just hasn't worked! No, it makes it worse, like a rot, if not treated properly, requires more and more drastic treatment, until eventually everything is lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: The City of London figures are definitely outliers, you only need to look at the sad list of lives lost to knife crime in London this year to see the demographic most affected. The incident this post originates from has apparently seen a third person arrested, interestingly the initial report stated that two hooded black youths were implicated whilst the suspect that has subsequently been charged is of Eastern European origin. Yup, and many on here jumped on that bandwagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, panoma1 said: Why oh why do liberal snowflake types ignore and/or deny facts when it relates to sensitive PC issues? Find the truth and act upon it, is the way forward, going soft, making excuses, pretending it isn't happening and ignoring it, just hasn't worked! 54 minutes ago, Rewulf said: No, it makes it worse, like a rot, if not treated properly, requires more and more drastic treatment, until eventually everything is lost. Give me an example of where the facts have been denied. Are you referring to the statistics on those involved writ large at the front of the latest knife crime strategy for London.? You don't teach a kid manners by smacking it in the mouth. It's a combination of stick and carrot if it's going to be a big stick then use a big carrot. Learn the lessons as you say find the truth and act upon it. Spouting the usual dreary beat them into submission rhetoric is not the answer. Last thing we need is a country full of overcrowded prisons breeding more crime. Edited March 15, 2019 by oowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 minute ago, oowee said: Give me an example of where the facts have been denied. Heres one 😱 4 minutes ago, henry d said: 4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: The City of London figures are definitely outliers, you only need to look at the sad list of lives lost to knife crime in London this year to see the demographic most affected. The incident this post originates from has apparently seen a third person arrested, interestingly the initial report stated that two hooded black youths were implicated whilst the suspect that has subsequently been charged is of Eastern European origin. Yup, and many on here jumped on that bandwagon Heres one of them Svenson Ong-a-kwie (left), 18, was charged with the murder of Jodie Chesney Mr Petrovic , a Croatian national The other boy , who at 16 has his identity kept secret due to his age, I have on good authority is black. Next ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 Lost me on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 22 minutes ago, oowee said: You don't teach a kid manners by smacking it in the mouth. You dont teach kids manners, theyll end up smacking YOU in the mouth. 23 minutes ago, oowee said: It's a combination of stick and carrot if it's going to be a big stick then use a big carrot. Its all carrot and virtually no stick at the moment. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8314043/zombie-knife-thug-spared-jail-after-terrifying-attack-finally-caged-for-three-years-after-appeal-judges-slam-lenient-sentence/ 25 minutes ago, oowee said: Learn the lessons as you say find the truth and act upon it Some of us find the 'truth' unpalatable so ignore it , or make excuses up for it.. 26 minutes ago, oowee said: Last thing we need is a country full of overcrowded prisons breeding more crime. We already have that ! They only commit more though, when we let them out after serving a 1/3 of their already lenient sentences, some deterrent huh ? We can build a rail link nobody can afford to use, but we cant build some more prisons, so we have to let dangerous criminals out back on the streets ? They .Are . Laughing. At .You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Rewulf said: You dont teach kids manners, theyll end up smacking YOU in the mouth. Its all carrot and virtually no stick at the moment. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8314043/zombie-knife-thug-spared-jail-after-terrifying-attack-finally-caged-for-three-years-after-appeal-judges-slam-lenient-sentence/ Some of us find the 'truth' unpalatable so ignore it , or make excuses up for it.. We already have that ! They only commit more though, when we let them out after serving a 1/3 of their already lenient sentences, some deterrent huh ? We can build a rail link nobody can afford to use, but we cant build some more prisons, so we have to let dangerous criminals out back on the streets ? They .Are . Laughing. At .You. I have not read the sun since puberty. So ask yourself why the perp's commit more crime. Do you think they enjoy the loss of freedom? What would happen if they had options beyond crime? Not many faced with a better choice will opt for incarceration. None of this happens over night. Simplest option is to knock them on the head play short term politics and take the votes. Rather than invest in sorting the problem out. Another example of first past the post failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 Just now, oowee said: I have not read the sun since puberty. Whats that got to do with it, is it a lie because its in the Sun ? 1 minute ago, oowee said: So ask yourself why the perp's commit more crime. Do you think they enjoy the loss of freedom? What would happen if they had options beyond crime? Not many faced with a better choice will opt for incarceration. Most of the time they dont believe they will be caught. If they do they know they will get a lenient sentence. Options beyond crime ? You need to catch them early on then , about 10 years old. The better choice for them is whatever they feel like, if they think a life of crime will satisfy their needs for money and power, who are you to tell them different ? 4 minutes ago, oowee said: Rather than invest in sorting the problem out. Nobody is sorting the problem , until you recognise where the problem lies. Build some youth clubs, give them pocket money, see how you go on. 6 minutes ago, oowee said: Another example of first past the post failure. Really ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 23 minutes ago, oowee said: I have not read the sun since puberty. So ask yourself why the perp's commit more crime. Do you think they enjoy the loss of freedom? What would happen if they had options beyond crime? Not many faced with a better choice will opt for incarceration. None of this happens over night. Simplest option is to knock them on the head play short term politics and take the votes. Rather than invest in sorting the problem out. Another example of first past the post failure. They don't "opt for incarceration" it is an occupational hazard for those who knowingly act outside the law! As is any loss of freedom!....these arrogant, violent thugs ain't frightened of the police or the CJS and aint frightened of getting caught, because they know full well that, in the unlikely event they are caught, they will get a fine, community payback or and easy, short (half time) sentence......all handed to them by the past lobbying of the authorities, by the limp, liberal bleeding heart brigade!!...to these thugs, lawlessness is worth the risk, it means quick money and they ain't bothered by or frightened of the consequences of using violence, up to and including killing someone to get it.......because they look 'ard' and get 'respec' from their peers! And get easy money they don't have to work for......if they want it they will take it by whatever means, from those who have it!........after all thieving it is better than working for it!......Innit? Try sorting these types out and turning them into responsible members of society, by treating them with kindness, they will laugh in your face!..... whilst they're robbing you at knifepoint and stealing your BMW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 19 minutes ago, panoma1 said: They don't "opt for incarceration" it is an occupational hazard for those who knowingly act outside the law! As is any loss of freedom!....these arrogant, violent thugs ain't frightened of the police or the CJS and aint frightened of getting caught, because they know full well that, in the unlikely event they are caught, they will get a fine, community payback or and easy, short (half time) sentence......all handed to them by the past lobbying of the authorities, by the limp, liberal bleeding heart brigade!!...to these thugs, lawlessness is worth the risk, it means quick money and they ain't bothered by or frightened of the consequences of using violence, up to and including killing someone to get it.......because they look 'ard' and get 'respec' from their peers! And get easy money they don't have to work for......if they want it they will take it by whatever means, from those who have it!........after all thieving it is better than working for it!......Innit? Try sorting these types out and turning them into responsible members of society, by treating them with kindness, they will laugh in your face!..... whilst they're robbing you at knifepoint and stealing your BMW! So your answer is lock them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 I don’t know what the answer is or even if there is one, but until the choice between a short life of violence and crime or an average working life becomes weighted toward working, society will continue to polarise. An under class and no-go estates benefit no one. Suppression and imprisonment just strengthen the divide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 20 minutes ago, oowee said: So your answer is lock them up. Grant, if you threaten someone with a knife, or a gun, even a slanging match on the street where the police are called, get caught drink driving, or excessive traffic violations, what do you think would happen to you ? You will be prosecuted, fined, in extreme situations you might get locked up, I can guarantee in most of those situations your tickets are gone for the duration. The shame and financial hit would hurt. How does that sound to you ? Pretty bad ? But you arent going to do any of these things, because you dont want to end up like that, thats the deterrent , you fear it. You might say that you wouldnt do it anyway, because it would be wrong, immoral, its not 'you' But what if you had been bought up with a skewed sense of right and wrong, your environment, the people you associate with, the music/media you listen too, and in many cases , even your own family , are urging you to be strong, take what you want, and fight to keep it. Above all you have been taught by your peers that only idiots respect the law, you are told there is only one law, the law of the jungle, of strength through violence. Fear of justice is for the weak, you wear your scars, mental and physical with pride, you are a hunter, the others are prey. The first time this person encounters the police and court system, they know there is going to be leniency, these people are weak after all. Say the right words and take your community order. Try not to get caught again. But you arent going to stop, the world is yours.. So is the answer to lock them up ? Well you have a choice, you can let them go and try to rehabilitate them, but you are fighting culture, they need to want to be rehabilitated, most of them just want to get it over with and go back to what they were doing. Im not saying it never works, but seriously, reoffending rates are just ridiculous. Where is the deterrent, what will MAKE them stop the cycle, not just for the benefit of the victims of their crimes, but for their own benefit ? The Glasgow effort is a good example, its a different scenario in London, but lets play along. We can say that a multi tiered approach works, but was the real reduction in crime caused by the virtual doubling of prison sentences ? I gave the example of the zombie knife attack above as a indication of a failed system, yes he got 3 years..eventually, but to start with he a got a suspended sentence ! What kind of message does that send out, when you attack someone on the street like that, broad daylight, being filmed.. What if he had got in the car ? Could easily have been yet another knife murder, another statistic, the man was carrying a 15 inch bladed weapon as part of his every day carry, like we carry a phone ? Yet a judge decided it was perfectly acceptable to let him go free. What happened to minimum sentencing for knife offences ? In 18 months , probably a lot less, hes back out , no worse for wear, just a bit more angry at the world. How about if he knew that just being caught with that knife in his possession would get him 10 years ? Sounds harsh? Dont forget hes still out in 5, but more like 3. How about the attack he did landed him with 15 years, 20 ? Thats a big chunk of his life gone, thats a deterrent. 18 months ? Pah ! not worth talking about, Ive heard people say it. But you start thinking about doing a 10 stretch and their legs get a bit wobbly. How about wounding with a knife? You stab someone , theres an outcome there you cant control, they could easily die, or not. Is it attempted murder, wounding with intent ? How does life inside grab you, with a 20 year recommendation, minimum ? Carrying that knife , and sticking it in someones guts doesnt seem like such a clever thing now does it ? Murder, there needs to be sensible approach to this, but if you are going to carry and use weapons, and in those acts willfully kill someone, you need to be an old man before you pick your life back up from when you made that foolish decision. Deterrence , the hard line, then hopefully we wont HAVE to follow it up. 'It doesnt work in the US ' you say ? This isnt the US , and while theyre in jail , they arent committing more crimes, if you find a large prison population unpalatable, think of a means to make their time there beneficial to us and them. But dont remove the threat, or you have nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 58 minutes ago, oowee said: So your answer is lock them up. No prison won't work, for the reasons given! But if society is serious about halting this descent into lawlessness, corporal punishment must be an option, take their "badges of honour" off them...…....public humiliation will remove (knock) the arrogance from em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, panoma1 said: No prison won't work, for the reasons given! But if society is serious about halting this descent into lawlessness, corporal punishment must be an option, take their "badges of honour" off them...…....public humiliation will remove (knock) the arrogance from em! If only.. Public humiliation would have the human rights lawyers ordering new kit so fast, the prestige dealerships would struggle with demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, Rewulf said: If only.. Public humiliation would have the human rights lawyers ordering new kit so fast, the prestige dealerships would struggle with demand. In my opinion, upholding an individuals human rights should only be applicable to persons who have had their human rights breached by another, and should not apply to those criminals who have knowingly and deliberately breached another's human rights!......If we carry on pussy footing around with this sort of PC madness, society will never get a grip on lawlessness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 It's about time the blame lay fairly and squarely with the scrotes that go round stabbing people instead of making out they are somehow the victims of circumstance. If they stabbed me or one of my loved ones, the fact they had grown up in a deprived area wouldn''t be much consolation. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenholland Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 the cells of today just like a holiday camp, 2 years in a army type camp more like it , I know it won't happen but one can live in hope . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 9 hours ago, oowee said: You don't teach a kid manners by smacking it in the mouth. That’s how I learned my manners. Horses don’t pull plows because they enjoy it. They do it because they were taught to do by a man with a whip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said: That’s how I learned my manners. Horses don’t pull plows because they enjoy it. They do it because they were taught to do by a man with a whip. no respect for their family's or themselves (feral) fear is the only thing that breeds respect history has taught us that the snowflake age does not work corporal punishment when they cant sit down for a few weeks they should get the message not that many year ago youngsters helped the aged with shopping /gardening / etc with a please and thank you were normal I am of the age that if I overstepped the mark I got an *** whooping which has made me the man I am today to think about how my decisions impact on others however if others step on my toes I also know how to bite back fear is also a good motivator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 6 hours ago, Saltings said: ... however if others step on my toes I also know how to bite back fear is also a good motivator Does that mean that you are prepared to disregard the law then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, henry d said: Does that mean that you are prepared to disregard the law then? That's a big jump from saying he would bite back, but OK 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, henry d said: Does that mean that you are prepared to disregard the law then? The law allows for self defence!.......are you advocating everyone should "turn the other cheek" and no one should attempt to prevent some thug who is threatening to "shank" them or their friends?............if you are? You might as well go the whole hog and have "victim" tattooed across your forehead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted March 16, 2019 Report Share Posted March 16, 2019 17 hours ago, panoma1 said: They don't "opt for incarceration" it is an occupational hazard for those who knowingly act outside the law! As is any loss of freedom!....these arrogant, violent thugs ain't frightened of the police or the CJS and aint frightened of getting caught, because they know full well that, in the unlikely event they are caught, they will get a fine, community payback or and easy, short (half time) sentence......all handed to them by the past lobbying of the authorities, by the limp, liberal bleeding heart brigade!!...to these thugs, lawlessness is worth the risk, it means quick money and they ain't bothered by or frightened of the consequences of using violence, up to and including killing someone to get it.......because they look 'ard' and get 'respec' from their peers! And get easy money they don't have to work for......if they want it they will take it by whatever means, from those who have it!........after all thieving it is better than working for it!......Innit? Try sorting these types out and turning them into responsible members of society, by treating them with kindness, they will laugh in your face!..... whilst they're robbing you at knifepoint and stealing your BMW! And that sadly seems to be the true reflection of the situation? The only people reigned in by the law are the law abiding, the others don't give a rats' ***? 17 hours ago, oowee said: So your answer is lock them up. Maybe for the sake of sociery at large, better off the streets than on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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