ClemFandango Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 Does anybody actually read anything before replying? Scolopax. Your suggestion makes perfect sense. Not sure how many more times you'll have to repeat yourself but I am enjoying reading the thread. I hope someone cottons on to this and considers extending your suggestion to other species on the General Licence, unfortunately I don't see it happening as I don't credit the people that make the laws with that much common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 The OP`s idea does make perfect sense but as you say ,those with the power to legislate seem intent on making life difficult for people as opposed to simplifying the control of acknowledged pest species. Commonsense and reasoned thinking is not in their behaviour pattern at the moment ,it seems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 10 hours ago, Scully said: Yeah, I'd go along with that, especially as my suggestion to declare it a pest species and remove all protection will never be entertained. BASC have been on to natural England saying the gl for crows it’s not fit for purpose I suspect the gl for pigeon will be of a similar line. What in my opinion should happen is pigeon should be taken off the gl and put as a pest but this probably is not going to happen, if you were to upgrade pigeon to game status for say some of the year so pigeon would be classed as game I think we would leave ourselves open to another attack as I do think game shooting will be under attack sometime soon it makes me wonder sometimes how game shooting has survived this long, I think whatever we do next needs very careful consideration and people with good knowledge of what goes on to put these measures in place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 The more I think about it it makes perfect sense pigeons should actually be treated as a pest and taken off the general license their numbers are prolific and they don’t need to be protected at the moment so maybe Chris Packham might of just done us a favour because the general licenses are being sorted out at the moment maybe gives us a platform to lobby and shooting organisations to push to get the pigeon took off the general license maybe just maybe if we all get together and get a petition going and put it into a shooting organisations we might get somewhere and Mr Packham would’ve scored an own goal has anybody thought of this and it also takes the pressure off of natural England Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 Was it NFU who conducted survey of pigeon numbers a couple of years ago? Estimate was, I recall, 29m which of course was rubbished by RSPB etc so do we not need to get farmers/landowners to repeat this to give credence to a wider control GL? Pigeon numbers in my part of the world are reaching epidemic proportions. For the first time this winter I was also witnessed a couple of accidents where the grey hoards, feasting on ivy berries on low hedges near a busy road swept low into oncoming traffic. One incident caused a major hold up on Norwich inner ring road - a young woman swerved and clipped another car. On the subject of roost shooting I was always given to understand this was looked upon as a necessity to control numbers before the breeding season got well underway - I know it can be '365' in mild winters - and before crops emerge. As a game shooter this is my contribution to the farm(s) where I have enjoyed my sport during the season. Ok we enjoy the sporting challenge of this event but it doesn't really even dent the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 (edited) Exactly why these need to be taken off the general license and treated as a pest ,if a handful of people in wild justice can stop the general license what is possible for us to do as a shooting community ?? My point being the general license is under review at the moment by natural England basc have Said the Crow license is not fit for purpose, so as these licenses are being looked at at the moment maybe we could have an input to get pigeon and Crow Removed from the general license Edited April 28, 2019 by silver fox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted April 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, silver fox 1 said: Exactly why these need to be taken off the general license and treated as a pest ,if a handful of people in world justice can stop the general license what is possible for us to do as a shooting community ?? there is no such thing as a pest designation outside of the General Licenses. All birds are protected under the WLC act 1981 (and EU Birds Directive). But some spcies of these 'protected' birds are allowed to be killed at certain times of the year, and some are listed on the general licenses allowing killing at any time of year, subject to conditions. And some are on both, like Canada Geese i referred to earlier. Therefore some birds have more protection than others, but all have some level of protection. Wild Justice did not fundamentally change anything, no law was made or revoked, they identifed that the law was not being applied as intended via the General Licenses issued by NE. They threatened to take NE to court over general licenses and gained sufficient funds from members to support the action. Essentially NE conceded defeat, agreed that they were not applying the law correctly and pulled the general licenses...as they were not defacto 'legal'. Edited April 28, 2019 by scolopax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 Point taken you’re right of course. But my way of thinking is that pigeons are becoming a pest, so I was wondering if it would be possible to remove them from the general license as far as I’m aware fox and rabbit don’t come under the general license so perhaps pigeon could be put with these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 Maybe it’s the EU bit that makes things more difficult but still not impossible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajarrett Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 My limited understanding of EU law as it relates to wild birds is that we would need a derogation under the Birds Directive for any changes, and we all know how easy it is to deal with European matters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Ajarrett said: My limited understanding of EU law as it relates to wild birds is that we would need a derogation under the Birds Directive for any changes, and we all know how easy it is to deal with European matters! Yes you’re right that made me laugh, Hopefully commonsense will prevail and Our shooting organisations will be able to sort this mess out, it’s just annoying to sit here and watch Our shooting being eroded bit by bit. Edited April 28, 2019 by silver fox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, silver fox 1 said: Yes you’re right that made me laugh, Hopefully commonsense will prevail and Our shooting organisations will be able to sort this mess out, it’s just annoying to sit here and watch Our shooting being eroded bit by bit. Wouldn't hold your breath on common sense, this is in effect just an attack on shooting, many people have for many years enjoyed popping a few pigeon, done a bit of roost shooting each year after the game season finished, who hasn't shot a woody because it was there? The antis didn't like that people enjoyed fox hunting, they tried it with course fishing and that failed badly now its back to shooting again. They couldn't care less about crop damage, they just don't want people to enjoy shooting live quarry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 Yes you’ve hit the nail on the head I think they don’t care about crop damage, all as they care about is what they like and what they don’t like. It’s selfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 20 hours ago, matone said: Wasn`t there a .Gov funded report published last year that said Woodpigeons needed to be controlled as a pest and that summertime shooting was the only effective method? Would be good to find that article if possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said: Would be good to find that article if possible Sure someone posted a link to it all on here at the time! It was the result of a fair bit of research ,as I recall. Edited April 28, 2019 by matone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted April 28, 2019 Report Share Posted April 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, matone said: Sure someone posted a link to it all on here at the time! It was the result of a fair bit of research ,as I recall. If we can get hold if it id happily send it in the Gove, NE, my local MP etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted April 29, 2019 Report Share Posted April 29, 2019 17 hours ago, ShootingEgg said: If we can get hold if it id happily send it in the Gove, NE, my local MP etc To impress Gove you really should find a 16 year old girl with pigtails and Aspergers to deliver it. * Genuinely no offence to anyone, or anyone with children that suffer from Aspergers intended here; it just appears that those are the only individuals that authorities and governments listen to with any intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacko3275 Posted April 29, 2019 Report Share Posted April 29, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 20:06, silver fox 1 said: My thoughts exactly I don’t shoot pigeons For sport I shoot pigeons for Crop protection if I want Sport I go Clay pigeon shooting Can you please call it clay disc shooting before packham tries to ban that as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 29, 2019 Report Share Posted April 29, 2019 Yes yes of course I stand corrected to be precise I would call it clay disk scaring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotgcoalman Posted April 29, 2019 Report Share Posted April 29, 2019 should maybe drop the clay as well due to it's previous association with the words pigeon and shooting. from now on I attend a disc club or perhaps a disc throwing club. At such a club you have to wave a scarecrow at the thrown disc. (no discs were harmed while I was typing this twaddle) I need to apply for a job with NE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted April 30, 2019 Report Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) Slightly broader than 'Pigeons, the way ahead'. I'd like to suggest something else. Shooting the way ahead. Those people that post videos and photos of dead stuff all over Facebook, forums and any other social media need to realise that their actions, in part, are responsible for some of this. Fine if you want pictures of dead stuff but try and keep them to yourself or show only others that may be interested. Splashing it all over Facebook and the internet is a daft idea. For years people in towns and cities have been blissfully ignorant of what happens outside in their playgrounds (the countryside). Not anymore they're not. Now they just need to login to youtube and type in 'long range crow' to see exploits of derring do with a rifle. They don't need to see it do they? And does your ego really require that much of a boost? So, I propose that, from now on, when you feel a bit in need of an ego boost or a like you simply go out and do something for conservation, film yourself putting up some nest boxes, or maintaining some hedgerow. Film that and post the pictures to your Facebook account under whichever shooting group you like. That's going to do way more to win over public support than a fox with it innards hanging out, impressive though that shot was and as devastating as a ballistic tip at 3500fps is. Thoughts? Edited April 30, 2019 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjaferret Posted April 30, 2019 Report Share Posted April 30, 2019 I think the point everyone is missing is why should we compromise ? Packham and co haven't . All the organisations need to pull together , their legal people work hand and hand to persuade NE exactly what we want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted April 30, 2019 Report Share Posted April 30, 2019 Because Packham and co don't kill stuff perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adzyvilla Posted April 30, 2019 Report Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 hour ago, ninjaferret said: I think the point everyone is missing is why should we compromise ? Packham and co haven't . All the organisations need to pull together , their legal people work hand and hand to persuade NE exactly what we want. I totally agree. We (as country sports enthusiasts) have been on the back foot for years constantly having to give ground and keep the peace, not making any waves whilst our opponents pick off bits of our legally enjoyed past times. We have to play by the rules whilst being harassed and even trying to defend ourselves seems to be viewed by some as too aggressive an approach. It's high time our organisations stuck up for us. Public opinion is often misrepresented by our opponents as a stick to beat us with. From conversations with work colleagues or friends, most couldn't care either way what we do, there is just a very vocal minority out there causing trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjaferret Posted April 30, 2019 Report Share Posted April 30, 2019 Exactly mate we always give and why should we ? we are the same as everyone else . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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