NE to be stripped of doing GL

[Miserableolgit]

1 hour ago, silver fox 1 said:

 Surely you would’ve thought they would have left the  Old GL in place until the new ones were sorted,  but now they’ve revoked I wonder if they can reinstate them for a while until the new ones are done 

Ah you are probably crediting them with rather too much common sense ...although from what I gleaned from various sources was that NE knew they were likely to loose the legal challenge from WJ so promptly revoked the old GL's, the fact that a certain Mr Juniper started his new job as Chair of NE that same day is surely a coincidence.

But what's done is done, we can all look forward to broad sunlight uplands where everything will now be sorted with tremendous haste and can get back to life as usual.

Look! I just saw a pink and yellow spotted pig flying around before landing in the old oak tree just over there, I think they must be nesting 🤪

[silver fox 1]

 Yes it looks like it’s going to take time ,  have you applied for an independent license to shoot it don’t forget you’ve got a scare it first 

[old'un]

As BASC have legal team and understand what is required by us and the law would it not be a good idea for them to draft a GL document and put that to NE or Gove?

[silver fox 1]

 It would seem that Basc Are trying to have an input, how much notice NE will take  is anybody’s  guess 

[gotgcoalman]

Basc would be ideal to take on the wording and updating of the GL.

Essentially an impartial party.It's in the name.

Shooting AND Conservation.

Spoke to a guy who used to work for NE (he retired last year) and........

He couldn't work out why someone so "anti shooting" was given such a job.

[Miserableolgit]

58 minutes ago, silver fox 1 said:

 Yes it looks like it’s going to take time ,  have you applied for an independent license to shoot it don’t forget you’ve got a scare it first 

Vast numbers of small boys are being issued with Mk5 football rattles and are being trained up as we speak and will be earning the princely sum of 2/6d a week ....which is ample for a family of six to live on and still allow Father a packet of Woodbines and a pint at weekends.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Miserableolgit

[Swarovski]

They definately need to reinstate the lisences until they have new ones set up ready to roll but I can't see it suiting us anyway.

It will be a kangaroo court scenario with all the anti's involved which in turn will be bad for us all, I find all this rather depressing and is probaly the thin end of the wedge 🙄

[gotgcoalman]

12 minutes ago, Swarovski said:

They definately need to reinstate the lisences until they have new ones set up ready to roll but I can't see it suiting us anyway.

It will be a kangaroo court scenario with all the anti's involved which in turn will be bad for us all, I find all this rather depressing and is probaly the thin end of the wedge 🙄

We live in a minoroty dictatorship and always get "the brown end of the stick"

Luckily this time alot of non shooting people I've spoken to agree control is needed and the GL being revoked was a huge mistake.

[mick miller]

My (untruthful) message to my Conservative MP:

Dear Mr. X,

It is with regret that I voted for the X party yesterday. Ordinarily I would have voted Conservative, having done so all my adult life. However, the on-going issues between the appointed government minister, Mr. Gove, Natural England and the reluctance to engage with any of the bodies that represent either farming or shooting; traditional custodians of the countryside for decades, has left me with no other option.

It appears, when it comes to so many issues not least this, that the Conservative party has rather lost it's way lately. We see a party that pardons terrorists yet prosecutes ex servicemen, a party that offered a referendum and then plainly refuses to deliver on the result, a party that now lends an ear to animal rights extremists rather than peer reviewed research and established methods.

Until and unless this government delivers, in a timely manner, workable licences to cover all 16 species previously listed and now revoked, I will continue to support any other party at the ballot box.

Yours sincerely,

X

[Good shot?]

3 hours ago, gotgcoalman said:

Probably,but that's far too simple.What they're doing is travelling from London to Cornwall via Northumberland.

On a plus. Due to the time elapsed we will have tried ALL non leathal methods and if they haven't worked then leathal means can be used as soon as the GL is re issued.

The nests I destroyed prior to the "farce" have been rebuilt and are occupied🙁

Unfortunately 'non lethal methods' must  continue to be tried even if they have proved inneffective, according to the wording of the licence.

[silver fox 1]

12 minutes ago, mick miller said:

My (untruthful) message to my Conservative MP:

Dear Mr. X,

It is with regret that I voted for the X party yesterday. Ordinarily I would have voted Conservative, having done so all my adult life. However, the on-going issues between the appointed government minister, Mr. Gove, Natural England and the reluctance to engage with any of the bodies that represent either farming or shooting; traditional custodians of the countryside for decades, has left me with no other option.

It appears, when it comes to so many issues not least this, that the Conservative party has rather lost it's way lately. We see a party that pardons terrorists yet prosecutes ex servicemen, a party that offered a referendum and then plainly refuses to deliver on the result, a party that now lends an ear to animal rights extremists rather than peer reviewed research and established methods.

Until and unless this government delivers, in a timely manner, workable licences to cover all 16 species previously listed and now revoked, I will continue to support any other party at the ballot box.

Yours sincerely,

X

Well said

[silver fox 1]

1 hour ago, Miserableolgit said:

Vast numbers of small boys are being issued with Mk5 football rattles and are being trained up as we speak and will be earning the princely sum of 2/6d a week ....which is ample for a family of six to live on and still allow Father a packet of Woodbines and a pint at weekends.

 Steady on old boy I prefer Park Drive or senior service

[Swarovski]

8 minutes ago, Good shot? said:

Unfortunately 'non lethal methods' must  continue to be tried even if they have proved inneffective, according to the wording of the licence.

I can't see the point of it as it's not dealing with the problem just temporarily pushing it to somebody else,these birds will feed regardless no matter how many gasguns are out there, starving them of food could be classed as cruel too.

[silver fox 1]

What about in another few years time when my grandchildren remember grandad telling them stories about when you was actually allowed to shoot pigeons and crows instead of chasing Them around the field all day with their drones

[panoma1]

47 minutes ago, Swarovski said:

I can't see the point of it as it's not dealing with the problem just temporarily pushing it to somebody else,these birds will feed regardless no matter how many gasguns are out there, starving them of food could be classed as cruel too.

That's the stupidity of the System....any non lethal methods of control are a waste of time........at best it just moves the problem elsewhere! The regulators can't see it and the protectionists won't see it!........only real conservationists can!

[Bazooka Joe]

Quote

Spoke to a guy who used to work for NE (he retired last year) and........

He couldn't work out why someone so "anti shooting" was given such a job.

It's reminding me of Brexit, ie; having a re-mainer in charge...

[wymberley]

8 hours ago, wymberley said:

Argh! That I didn't know and thought I'd pretty much read everything, but obviously not. And according to the NGO, NE are simply going to make a right hash of writing the new ones.

Not all that far off then, after all:

https://www.countryside-alliance.org/news/2019/5/averting-a-general-licence-crisis?utm_campaign=938682_Newsletter%20-%20030519&utm_medium=dotmailer&utm_source=Countryside%20Alliance&dm_i=44G9,K4AI,1MIQQA,2C9BJ,1

[Lloyd90]

8 hours ago, B725 said:

The Wickerman film brings back a few memories as a young lad 😁

Would that be the scene in the graveyard? 🤭

[Miserableolgit]

Released tonight https://www.nationalgamekeepers.org.uk/articles/new-woodpigeon-licence-appalling-says-ngo

Last para contains:

"In a separate and important development tonight, it has also emerged that the Secretary of State, Michael Gove, will be taking back control of bird licensing from Natural England, at least for a time, starting tomorrow (Saturday 4 May). Commenting on this news, Liam Bell said: “NE made a pig’s ear of licensing and changes were certainly needed. We must hope that Defra can do better and we will offer them every assistance in sorting out this mess. The priority is to get workable licences back up as soon as possible, especially at this critical time for both livestock and wildlife.”

[silver fox 1]

 I wonder what happens now that NE  have been stripped of doing the licenses,  Will Defra Review these new pigeon and crow licenses  or leave them in place until December and then sort them out ( or not sort them out at all ) The mind boggles 

[old man]

13 hours ago, panoma1 said:

That's the stupidity of the System....any non lethal methods of control are a waste of time........at best it just moves the problem elsewhere! The regulators can't see it and the protectionists won't see it!........only real conservationists can!

Not only is it stupid it's unquantifiable.

Whilst the muppets in charge continue down this blind alley nothing can be solved due to the ease of another challenge?

[lancer425]

31 minutes ago, silver fox 1 said:

 I wonder what happens now that NE  have been stripped of doing the licenses,  Will Defra Review these new pigeon and crow licenses  or leave them in place until December and then sort them out ( or not sort them out at all ) The mind boggles 

 DEFRA are not ideal but in MHO  if Tony juniper is off the case it will only do good, how much good exactly no idea.  I do not know what NE were doing releasing the Pigeon GL last night if it was just them fulfilling a pre defined obligation to deliver by Friday or not again no idea, but one thing the GL wasn’t was "Fit for purpose", the Individual licensing is the way NE want to go that’s clear and that’s not being relinquished on jot, they are on this and not letting go. They can not lose in reality Natural england are all powerful they have agendas despite supposedly  being unbiased. this organisation is not professional, and with Juniper the EARTHs FRIEND in the driving seat, its going to be a long painful proses.

 What NE have done here is not proportional, its way over the top and feathering others agendas not the Environment Economy agriculture and wildlife, i think its disgusting the way they have used the fact we signed to the EEC 79 birds directive and atempted to adjust it to suit our needs with Government backing for close to 40 years with no problems, and now to use this fact to bring about change effectively through the back door, and most certainly without proper consultation or debate in parliament. And this being such an important thing , i do believe eventualy it will get sorted out but when and how vlong  Who can say.  

  .

[Bluebarrels]

[kenno]

link from BASC hope it works

/basc.org.uk/blog/ne-general-licences/basc-responds-to-announcement-on-future-of-general-licences

sorry but it does not  work

this is what Basc say

BASC responds to announcement on future of general licences

May 4, 2019

It has been announced that decision making on general licences will be passed from Natural England to the Secretary of State for the Environment ‘for a time’.

 

 

It is understood this move will be followed by a call for evidence into the short and long-term future of general licences. Details of the new arrangement are included in an exchange of letters between environment secretary Michael Gove and Natural England chairman Tony Juniper published today.

 

A covering letter from Defra said: “As part of his new responsibilities, the Secretary of State is now initiating a swift but formal call to evidence, in order to capture information from all concerned parties about the recent withdrawal of the three general licences (GL04, GL05 & GL06).

 

”In particular it will look at developing a better understanding of the implications for the protection of wild birds, and the impacts on crops, livestock, wildlife, disease, human health and safety and wider nature conservation efforts.

 

”All relevant evidence gathered from the exercise, alongside information that Defra and Natural England have already received since 25 April, will inform decisions and approach.”

 

 

In response, BASC chief executive Ian Bell said: “BASC hopes this is the first step to resolving the current chaos in the countryside.

 

“This shambles of the last week or so was created by Natural England’s ill-advised decision to withdraw all licences without consultation or notice and, in effect, remove pest control at a critical time of year.

 

 

“We hope that this intervention by the environment secretary, Michael Gove, represents that he is getting a grip of this problem and BASC will join the other leading organisations in providing evidence into the review to ensure we end up with a system of general licences that are fit for purpose.”

Edited May 4, 2019 by kenno

[TIGHTCHOKE]

https://basc.org.uk/blog/ne-general-licences/basc-responds-to-announcement-on-future-of-general-licences/