So what’s the back story on this.

[Newbie to this]

Just now, Rewulf said:

 missed that one, I didn't click on any of the pictures.

What is worrying is almost all of the American comments are about how bad London is for murders

[Rewulf]

49 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

What is worrying is almost all of the American comments are about how bad London is for murders

That's because these days, it is bad, even compared to US cities. 

But Mr Khan says that's part and parcel of living in a big city these days, so its OK. 

And, if you think he's wrong about that, you're obviously a racist 😁

[WestonSalop]

15 hours ago, Rewulf said:

That's because these days, it is bad, even compared to US cities. 

But Mr Khan says that's part and parcel of living in a big city these days, so its OK. 

And, if you think he's wrong about that, you're obviously a racist 😁

You've hit the nail on the head there. There is no-one further from being a racist than me but the fact is that the issue is predominantly within the Afro- Carribean community. That's not being racist, its a fact and has to be addressed as such. If this terrible trend was being caused by white youths in any community, I'd expect it to be called out as such.

But I wonder which mainstream politician is going to be brave enough to pop their head above the parapet and say so. Answer is simple - no-one. 

[NoBodyImportant]

13 minutes ago, WestonSalop said:

You've hit the nail on the head there. There is no-one further from being a racist than me but the fact is that the issue is predominantly within the Afro- Carribean community. That's not being racist, its a fact and has to be addressed as such. If this terrible trend was being caused by white youths in any community, I'd expect it to be called out as such.

But I wonder which mainstream politician is going to be brave enough to pop their head above the parapet and say so. Answer is simple - no-one. 

Lol,  I’m the US the news want point out crimes with Black men.  They call them youths.  

[Scully]

Have a look at ‘Gun No 6’ on i player. Well worth a gander. 

[henry d]

2 hours ago, WestonSalop said:

You've hit the nail on the head there. There is no-one further from being a racist than me but the fact is that the issue is predominantly within the Afro- Carribean community. That's not being racist, its a fact and has to be addressed as such. If this terrible trend was being caused by white youths in any community, I'd expect it to be called out as such.

But I wonder which mainstream politician is going to be brave enough to pop their head above the parapet and say so. Answer is simple - no-one. 

You need to do a bit of research, it crosses all races/ethnicity, but the common thread is poverty.

[Rewulf]

44 minutes ago, henry d said:

You need to do a bit of research, it crosses all races/ethnicity, but the common thread is poverty.

Are you saying that the recent (2 years) surge in Londons knife crime is not predominantly black on black ?

[Westward]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

You need to do a bit of research, it crosses all races/ethnicity, but the common thread is poverty.

Oh dear. Playing the tired old "Poverty" card again.

Nobody alive today in this country is living in real, unavoidable, inescapable poverty. Everyone has access to education which is the only reliable magic bullet to escaping from poverty. Feral children are not born, they're the product of useless parents (or parent more likely) who don't bring them up properly and don't care a hoot whether the children go to school or not and don't care where they go, who they're with or how late they stay out . Children who are raised in a proper home with proper standards, proper controls with boundaries and who are supported to progress at school and through FE do not carry knives and do not murder people. Instead they become proper citizens contributing to society and leading fruitful lives. This is true even for children raised in families living in abject poverty. My wife and my brothers-in-law are living proof of this.

You'll never convince me that poverty automatically leads to poor life opportunities and crime. It's lousy, disinterested, selfish and uncaring parents that result in young people growing up with little education, little prospect of gainful employment - much less a career - and who, all too often, end up under the radar and involved with street gangs, drugs or other sub cultures. Frequently having children of their own to guarantee the continuation of the underclass down through the generations.

[Rewulf]

41 minutes ago, Westward said:

You'll never convince me that poverty automatically leads to poor life opportunities and crime. It's lousy, disinterested, selfish and uncaring parents that result in young people growing up with little education, little prospect of gainful employment - much less a career - and who, all too often, end up under the radar and involved with street gangs, drugs or other sub cultures. Frequently having children of their own to guarantee the continuation of the underclass down through the generations.

*Splutters into coffee !
You cant say things like that ! Henry's a 'youth worker' you know.
We that are 'unqualified' to work out what is wrong in society, must stand aside, keep our racist gobs shut, and let 'professional' people sort out the problems with todays youth, the fact that (buzzword alert) they may be BAME or indeed, DUAL HERITAGE is irrelevant, poverty is the key , we need a good (ahem) honest socialist government to pump (our) money into inner cities, and re integrate these poor disaffected souls back into society.

One cannot simply blame the parents for youth crime , its err, austerity , forces them to stab each other, or something, and the youth club shutting down.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Snowflakes on the rise again?

[ph5172]

3 hours ago, henry d said:

You need to do a bit of research, it crosses all races/ethnicity, but the common thread is poverty.

Henry is correct infact nationally white people stab each other more!!! 

non white (yes, that’s the term used to encompass all for the purpose of the national statistics) knife crime sits nationally around 25%

in London it sits at just under 70% 

is London more poverty stricken than the rest of the uk? 

It cant be solely down to poverty, there must be more on a deeper level? Upbringing, opportunity, prevelance of gangs? 

Edited May 16, 2019 by ph5172

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, ph5172 said:

non white (yes, that’s the term used to encompass all for the purpose of the national statistics) knife crime sits nationally around 25%

in London it sits at just under 70% 

is London more poverty stricken than the rest of the uk? 

It cant be solely down to poverty

But..but .. RACIST !    

[Scully]

 ‘Gun No 6’ on iplayer. Quite enlightening. 

[henry d]

Gun? What does that have to do with knives?

[henry d]

3 hours ago, ph5172 said:

It cant be solely down to poverty, there must be more on a deeper level? Upbringing, opportunity, prevelance of gangs? 

Poverty is not just money, it's the other things you mentioned. If your parents are poor it you are more likely to be poor also, the school in the area you live in is going to be underperforming, so your positive opportunities will be less than those from more affluent areas. You may not be fed properly during the summer holidays, your job opportunities will likely be limited to those local to you and possibly of a criminal nature. 

It pivots around poverty.

[henry d]

4 hours ago, Westward said:

Oh dear. Playing the tired old "Poverty" card again.....

You'll never convince me....

 

Never a good thing to see a closed mind, but thanks for your input.

[Westward]

21 minutes ago, henry d said:

It pivots around poverty.

Unfortunately and despite the Marxist inequality mantras of our socialist friends and the champagne socialists of Camden Town etc., dishing out more money and better housing usually doesn't produce  positive results. You cannot build a house from the top down as the saying goes, but until the socialists come to realise that fact, they and their supporters will always attempt to solve every social problem by throwing money at it rather than addressing the real underlying causes.

Don't attempt to lecture me about poverty. I've already got the T shirt.

[Scully]

42 minutes ago, henry d said:

Gun? What does that have to do with knives?

The weapon of choice has no bearing on the thread,  but if you watched the programme you would see that the difference between those using knives and those using guns, is irrelevant as there is no difference. 

They all have one thing in common, and that is the circumstances they find themselves in and the environment they inhabit. The weapon is immaterial. 

[old man]

On 15/05/2019 at 12:31, udderlyoffroad said:

They're at it again.  Intercepting charity shop donations and taking spoons and sharpening steels off the streets...

What gets me is they post these things, apparently with a complete lack of self-awareness of how ridiculous this looks.

Merely propaganda which when misused does no one any good, people with sense just switch off?

[ph5172]

a lot of the schools i see in 'deprived' areas are actually rated as good or outstanding due to the amount of extra funds pumped in

 

The problem seems to be when people hit mid highschool

 

I fail to see poverty as the route cause and blame all brush, whilst all of the things mentioned have an influence it just seems an easy thing to blame. 

There is always opportunity if you are willing - or someone is there push you that way and facilitate it. 

Edited May 17, 2019 by ph5172

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, ph5172 said:

a lot of the schools i see in 'deprived' areas are actually rated as good or outstanding due to the amount of extra funds pumped in

12 -14 years ago when my 2 daughters started school, we lived in what could be described as , a 'deprived' area, old mining village/suburb , high unemployment, big drinking culture ect.

I wasnt from that type of area , I grew up in quite an affluent suburb on the other side of town, so it was a bit of a culture shock to me.
My partner had grown up among this area, and was used to the violence, drug dealing and terrifyingly high rate of under 16 year old motherhood.

What I noticed right away though was how the schools operated, very strict on uniform, discipline, and a zero tolerance on bullying and other anti social behaviour, something that had recently been implemented.
Thats not to say there was no issues, or bullying, but it was dealt with, firmly, with the prospect of expulsion from out of schooling within the area, and a long bus ride to a place where no one knew you.
I watched over 10 years as the area transformed, some of it was helped by Nottinghams first tram link, but the schools turned out good performing pupils and the ones already in the system considered university as a pretty standard progression.
Today the area is a very trendy place to live, lots of new build estates, nice shops and eateries.

We can talk about poverty as a cause of youth problems, personally I think true poverty is virtually unknown in this country these days, the biggest issue is lack of education.
Although you can still be successful without one, the chances in life are just not as diverse, when you struggle with basic maths and lit.
Poverty is not a bar to being successful, you can still get educated and make a life for yourself, it doesnt have to be a degree level education either, though I do believe that going through uni will prepare you better for higher paying jobs.

The point is,  'rough' areas dont necessarily have to produce knife wielding runts, so the poverty argument gets chucked out the window.
An area with poor schools and poor role models will likely produce disinterested, feral kids, who look at their parents, teachers and think to themselves 'If youre not bothered, why should I be ?'
After that, you can watch the area decay, and turn into a crime ridden ghetto.

[henry d]

16 hours ago, Westward said:

Don't attempt to lecture me about poverty. I've already got the T shirt.

I wouldn`t even try, you are unlikely to even try to think about another viewpoint than your own.

 

2 hours ago, ph5172 said:

1 - a lot of the schools i see in 'deprived' areas are actually rated as good or outstanding due to the amount of extra funds pumped in

 

2 - The problem seems to be when people hit mid highschool

1 - In the areas I work they are not like that, nor is it nationwide, if you are sure that they are outstanding/good due to money pumped into them then that goes against the quote below, so someone is wrong?

16 hours ago, Westward said:

Unfortunately and despite the Marxist inequality mantras of our socialist friends and the champagne socialists of Camden Town etc., dishing out more money and better housing usually doesn't produce  positive results. You cannot build a house from the top down as the saying goes, but until the socialists come to realise that fact, they and their supporters will always attempt to solve every social problem by throwing money at it rather than addressing the real underlying causes.

2 - Problems are usually well along the way before any symptoms are showing. Most of the YP I am dealing with will have some sort of childhood trauma or toxic stress in mid primary or earlier that eventually finds its way out in early to mid puberty. One had the doors to his house punted in several times as a small child as his mum`s partner had substance abuse issues and nasty people came for their money or wanted to rob them of their substances, he started to sleep with a knife under his pillow as he too would be turfed out of his bed and threatened so they got what they wanted. He got into trouble and at school he was targetted via social media by older siblings so he started to take his only source of peace and comfort to school as he could not rely on school, parents, social work to protect him. The early trauma of having your safe space trashed in front of you and adults beaten came out in later life.

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, henry d said:

I wouldn`t even try, you are unlikely to even try to think about another viewpoint than your own.

Pot..Kettle..

[ph5172]

Thing is everyone needs a sob story for the courts and we need to blame the system instead of saying little Johnny is just a shi te and will never change we can blame his poor upbringing, lack of hot dinners and no cuddles for the fact he carries a knife and mugs old grannies. 

We often chat in the office about how often you see little Johnny getting stabbed or in trouble on his way to choir practice, scouts, cadets or his evening classes...... funnily enough you don’t... little Johnny gets stabbed when out dropping drugs or being a toe rag. 

Maybe instead of giving them a cuddle and bleating about how bad they have it we should give them the opportunity above..... oh yeah they have been there all along 

truth is little Johnny likes being a toe rag and doesn’t want to change. 

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, ph5172 said:

Thing is everyone needs a sob story for the courts and we need to blame the system instead of saying little Johnny is just a shi te and will never change we can blame his poor upbringing, lack of hot dinners and no cuddles for the fact he carries a knife and mugs old grannies. 

We often chat in the office about how often you see little Johnny getting stabbed or in trouble on his way to choir practice, scouts, cadets or his evening classes...... funnily enough you don’t... little Johnny gets stabbed when out dropping drugs or being a toe rag. 

Maybe instead of giving them a cuddle and bleating about how bad they have it we should give them the opportunity above..... oh yeah they have been there all along 

truth is little Johnny likes being a toe rag and doesn’t want to change. 

Spot on