Brexit - merged threads

[Blackstone]

10 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Heres one 😃 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-brexit-trade-deal-us-uk-farage-twitter-theresa-may-vote-a8822566.html?fbclid=IwAR2Lh6er7Qg0bo8l70Sm7hKGwZlCYOwYN0EwkLPOaEFJXziDooxbYk4JoVw

Trump says many things and contradicts himself on a daily basis. You forget the 20 congressmen who threatened us with no trade deal if the Good Friday Agreement was damaged by Brexit (which a no deal situation would). You forget US lobbyists demanding our food and drugs standards be lowered to the level of US standards. They want the NHS to relax its drug approval system so that we will have to pay more for medicines from the US. You think we are in any position of strength when negotiating with the US? Do you really think Trump is a good faith actor? The man who is waging a trade war against one of America's closest allies Canada?

Edited March 14, 2019 by Blackstone

[Rewulf]

23 minutes ago, Blackstone said:

Of course we can do this. I can also drive off a cliff. It'll be catastrophic sure, but I can do it.

Would that be a 'catastrophic cliff edge Brexit' plunging into the 'abyss' ? 😄

Sometimes we dont get what we want, sometimes its because we cant be bothered to get up off our backsides and so something about it.
Sometimes its because we dont 'feel' strongly enough about it.
But this time we put up with all the taunt and threats, got up off the sofa, and voted for what we wanted, like John here..

2 minutes ago, Blackstone said:

Trump says many things and contradicts himself on a daily basis

Hes a politician, of course he does, but he won , against the odds , and he supports Brexit, so he will do for me .

 

3 minutes ago, Blackstone said:

You forget the 20 congressmen who threatened us with no trade deal if the Good Friday Agreement was damaged by Brexit (which a no deal situation would)

Oooh a whole 20 , couldnt they afford to pay any more of them to say that ?🤣

 

4 minutes ago, Blackstone said:

You forget US lobbyists demanding our food and drugs standards be lowered to the level of US standards. They want the NHS to relax its drug approval system so that we will have to pay more for medicines from the US

What do you mean demanding ?
Demanding with what leverage? Do lobbyists make trade agreements, run government, decide policy ?
I think youre one or two soundbites short of a factual argument mate .

[Gordon R]

Blackstone - a tawdry attempt to dismiss Trump. He seems positively heavyweight compared to our bunch, except for Diane Abbott. She is world class.

[Blackstone]

Just now, Rewulf said:

What do you mean demanding ?
Demanding with what leverage? Do lobbyists make trade agreements, run government, decide policy ?
I think youre one or two soundbites short of a factual argument mate .

Uhh, the whole point of lobbyists is to influence government policy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobbying

Rewulf do you mind telling me your current life situation - do you work, or are you retired? If you do work, in what sector? I am genuinely curious as to whether or not you're worried at all about the economic impact of a no deal Brexit.

[Gordon R]

Blackstone - do you mind telling us where you work. I am curious, as your arguments would suggest it isn't a very intellectually demanding occupation.

[Blackstone]

5 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Blackstone - do you mind telling us where you work. I am curious, as your arguments would suggest it isn't a very intellectually demanding occupation.

Sure, I work in a small life sciences company in Northern Ireland. I have a MEng from the University of Cambridge. We do a significant (40%) amount of trade with the EU. We have little idea of what tariffs will be imposed on our goods in the event of a no-deal Brexit. We have however already lost two major European customers as a result of Brexit. The weakening of the Pound has also severely impacted our margins as we import a lot of raw materials. I genuinely fear for the future of the company, especially if tariffs mean we simply can't compete.

Unlike you, I'm not asking because I want to judge somebody's intelligence.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Blackstone

[Gordon R]

Oddly, the pound seems to be on the up. I trust this will allay your fears.

[Blackstone]

Just now, Gordon R said:

Oddly, the pound seems to be on the up. I trust this will allay your fears.

The pound is on the up because no deal was rejected by Parliament last night. I expect it will go up some more if and when Parliament passes the motion to extend Article 50 tonight. The pound goes up when the prospect of no deal goes down. It goes up even more when the prospect of Brexit itself goes down. This has been the case the whole time. Remember what happened when the referendum result was announced? The markets hate Brexit, it's simple as that.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand and support many of the arguments for Brexit, particularly issues of sovereignty and control over borders. I regularly shoot in Switzerland, and seeing them bending over and aligning closer to EU regulations every day frustrates me too.

[Gordon R]

That is the trouble with taking the short term view. We need to be looking a few years ahead.

[ditchman]

wouldnt want to be in leo varadka's shoes.....................trump groped and held mays hand............played with macrons dandruff...........leo will proberly be goosed with a fat little digit ..............needs to check his backstop

[SpringDon]

15 minutes ago, Blackstone said:

Sure, I work in a small life sciences company in Northern Ireland. I have a MEng from the University of Cambridge. We do a significant (40%) amount of trade with the EU. We have little idea of what tariffs will be imposed on our goods in the event of a no-deal Brexit. We have however already lost two major European customers as a result of Brexit. The weakening of the Pound has also severely impacted our margins as we import a lot of raw materials. I genuinely fear for the future of the company, especially if tariffs mean we simply can't compete.

Unlike you, I'm not asking because I want to judge somebody's intelligence.

Surely a weaker pound gives increased market possibilities? Also, tariffs are fixed by eu deals so there’s a equal chance that your costs will go down.

and finally, if 60% of trade is outside the eu, isn’t that of greater importance?

even more finally, markets don’t hate brexit; markets hate uncertainty.

Edited March 14, 2019 by SpringDon
More stuff

[Blackstone]

2 minutes ago, SpringDon said:

Surely a weaker pound gives increased market possibilities? Also, tariffs are fixed by eu deals so there’s a equal chance that your costs will go down.

and finally, if 60% of trade is outside the eu, isn’t that of greater importance?

even more finally, markets don’t hate brexit; markets hate uncertainty.

Sure, but it also causes problems when you need to import materials. While yes, the majority of our trade is outside of the EU, it doesn't necessarily mean trade with those countries will carry on as before when we leave. Currently we trade with those countries as part of the EU bloc and so benefit from any trade deals the EU has negotiated with them. 

On your last point, yes I would agree that's a more accurate way of putting it.

[Vince Green]

42 minutes ago, Blackstone said:

You forget US lobbyists demanding our food and drugs standards be lowered to the level of US standards. 

Actually, having lived in the US I would say their food and drug standards are way higher than ours,  not always aligned admittedly 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Vince Green

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Blackstone said:

Of course we can do this. I can also drive off a cliff. It'll be catastrophic sure, but I can do it.

What are the economic reasons to support a no-deal Brexit. Where are these countries lining up to do trade deals with us that we were promised by Vote Leave? 

Driving off a cliff would result in your death;  trying to make comparisons between that and leaving the EU is yet another ridiculous remainder claim. 

I’m not concerned about the economy, which played no part in my decision to vote leave. 

[Blackstone]

Just now, Scully said:

Driving off a cliff would result in your death;  trying to make comparisons between that and leaving the EU is yet another ridiculous remainder claim. 

I’m not concerned about the economy, which played no part in my decision to vote leave. 

Does that mean you feel you're sufficiently insulated against the damage to the economy? Or do you genuinely accept that you could be affected and think it's a price worth paying yourself?

[Rewulf]

15 minutes ago, Blackstone said:

Uhh, the whole point of lobbyists is to influence government policy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobbying

Not demand then ?

 

16 minutes ago, Blackstone said:

Rewulf do you mind telling me your current life situation - do you work, or are you retired? If you do work, in what sector? I am genuinely curious as to whether or not you're worried at all about the economic impact of a no deal Brexit.

Yes I work, I have a small car bodywork repair business, at 51, Ive been doing this since I left school at 16.
I am more worried about stopping IN the EU by a COUNTRY MILE than any economic hit I might take.
My business has survived 2 recessions, and has prospered when many other similar garages have come and gone, because I am competitive and try to keep my customers happy.
I believe I am intelligent enough to see that my decisions around Brexit are good and valid.

 

10 minutes ago, Blackstone said:

The pound is on the up because no deal was rejected by Parliament last night. I expect it will go up some more if and when Parliament passes the motion to extend Article 50 tonight. The pound goes up when the prospect of no deal goes down. It goes up even more when the prospect of Brexit itself goes down. This has been the case the whole time. Remember what happened when the referendum result was announced? The markets hate Brexit, it's simple as that.

Is this your analysis, or just a hunch ?
As I have conflicting reports that when we eventually get either, a deal through, or no deal happens, sterling will rise considerably.

Does it not bother you that some MPs are blatently ignoring not only the will of majority in the UK , but their own constituents that put them there ?
Do you think this is right and proper, just because your companies business relies so heavily on European trade ?

[Scully]

2 minutes ago, Blackstone said:

Does that mean you feel you're sufficiently insulated against the damage to the economy? Or do you genuinely accept that you could be affected and think it's a price worth paying yourself?

😂 Not a chance! I’m a self employed painter with two kids at uni’ and no pension other than the state one, and can’t realistically see a time when I’ll ever be able to retire.

I was thinking of the bigger picture overall, for the future of the UK when I voted to leave, rather than one of an insular reason. 

Which two major European companies have you lost as a direct result of Brexit? 

[Blackstone]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Does it not bother you that some MPs are blatently ignoring not only the will of majority in the UK , but their own constituents that put them there ?
Do you think this is right and proper, just because your companies business relies so heavily on European trade ?

Thanks for your reply, I wasn't trying to paint or reinforce a caricature or stereotype of a typical Brexit voter in my mind when I asked about your work situation.

It bothers me that an issue as deeply complex as Brexit was boiled down to a simple Yes/No vote, before we had any idea of what a post-Brexit scenario would really look like. 

[SpringDon]

9 minutes ago, Blackstone said:

<snip>

Currently we trade with those countries as part of the EU bloc and so benefit from any trade deals the EU has negotiated with them. 

<snip>

Yes but eu trade have to accommodate (up to) 27 sets of vested interests. This would not be the case for a single country thus giving more flexibility, for example we wouldn’t need to worry about tariffs on wine exports to take a trivial example.

Also since we run a trade deficit with virtually everyone, it would seem to me that countries would be quick to take advantage of that.

[ditchman]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

😂 Not a chance! I’m a self employed painter with two kids at uni’ and no pension other than the state one, and can’t realistically see a time when I’ll ever be able to retire.

I was thinking of the bigger picture overall, for the future of the UK when I voted to leave, rather than one of an insular reason. 

Which two major European companies have you lost as a direct result of Brexit? 

the one continuing difference between the in and outs i have words with is..........the remainers say "what about me...my livelhood"....its always about them....and the outers always say "they want a better future for thereir children and grandchilderen" and they do accecpt in the shorterm they will accept a drop in standards...

[Gordon R]

Blackstone - I presume making the Referendum ballot paper a lot more complicated would have helped. As no one - including you or I - knows what the future holds, just how would you word that on the ballot paper? In short, the Referendum could never have happened.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Gordon R

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Blackstone said:

Thanks for your reply, I wasn't trying to paint or reinforce a caricature or stereotype of a typical Brexit voter in my mind when I asked about your work situation.

Ill take your word for that.

 

2 minutes ago, Blackstone said:

It bothers me that an issue as deeply complex as Brexit was boiled down to a simple Yes/No vote, before we had any idea of what a post-Brexit scenario would really look like.

What were they supposed to do , lay out a massive string of optional scenarios on the ballot paper ?
Scenarios they simply couldnt guarantee the EU would entertain before hell froze over ?

It was yes or no  because thats all they needed to know at the time, they expected a resounding vote to remain, but hey , they got that very wrong !
Theyve had the best part of 3 years now to make some kind of deal, hope they can squash it, fudge it , kick it down the road...
But they cant think of a way to stop it without destroying the political establishment, politicians with integrity have stood up and challenged the process of stalling, and the simple fact that they have stolen the final decision away from the people , well theyve got THAT wrong too.

Ill say it again, dont be scared of Brexit, no deal or otherwise, be scared of a Brexit that doesnt happen, because then there will be far more upheaval, and economic strife.

[Newbie to this]

I'm hoping for no extension (which I have a number of times been informed by my MP and the Government, that will not be happening).

The quicker this is over and we either move on to voting for a party that will deliver Brexit, or hopefully we are out and can finally just get on with our lives, the better.

I'd prefer the second with a WTO exit but I'm expecting the first. Which says very little for my faith in our Democracy.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Newbie to this

[panoma1]

55 minutes ago, Blackstone said:

Sure, I work in a small life sciences company in Northern Ireland. I have a MEng from the University of Cambridge. We do a significant (40%) amount of trade with the EU. We have little idea of what tariffs will be imposed on our goods in the event of a no-deal Brexit. We have however already lost two major European customers as a result of Brexit. The weakening of the Pound has also severely impacted our margins as we import a lot of raw materials. I genuinely fear for the future of the company, especially if tariffs mean we simply can't compete.

Unlike you, I'm not asking because I want to judge somebody's intelligence.

Blackstone, can I ask? Are you from the side of the political divide that wants a United Ireland within the EU?.......or are you from the side of the political divide that supports the democratic decision made in the UK union wide referendum?

 

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by panoma1
Badly worded sensitive question

[TIGHTCHOKE]

REJECTED, I believe!