oowee Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 4 hours ago, Retsdon said: Nobody is punishing anybody. Britain chose to leave the EU, and then May chose to leave the single market. It's Britain that is choosing to adopt third country status vis a vis the EU, not the other way around. As Sabine Weyand said in her recent speech, the May deal that Parliament rejected had been, after long hours of negotiation, thrashed out around British 'red lines'. But of course, nobody here actually bothers to read or listen to what the EU has to say, which seems a bit odd when you think about it. In negotiations it's generally considered a good idea to know. what the other side wants and is thinking, and even in all out war the maxim 'know your enemy' has been around for millennia. But seemingly not for hardline British Brexiters. They just build a shadowy bogie man across the channel that can be used to dump all the ills of the world on, and to whom can be attributed all kinds of malice. That might have been an understandable campaigning tactic during the Referendum campaign, but it's an extremely dangerous thing to do when hard political and economic facts come knocking. History is absolutely littered with catastrophic failures caused by people falling prey to their own propaganda. Good post 👍 10 hours ago, Vince Green said: Nissan drawing SUV manufacturing back to Japan has absolutely nothing at all to do with Brexit, its a war that is being fought in the Pacific rim Look at where Nissan design centre is. Chosen as part of the future vehicles division starting with EV's for the UK. The UK secured the expansion of the design facility as it was able to demonstrate a commitment to EV, with purchase subsidy and charging infrastructure as part of along term working arrangement. This supported the leaf to be made in the UK and it was to be followed by a range of new vehicles for Europe. Some of which the UK would assemble to provide the test bed for new ev and later hydrogen propulsion systems. The UK government made a promise in 2016 to underpin new investment in the NE following the referendum and gave assurances on a future trade position. The UK has not been able to deliver on that agreement and rightly this is a huge part of future planning and as a result the manufacturing has been lost from teh UK. The design centre is likely to stay as the knowledge workers and access to research are not so mobile. Where next Honda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said: Lets be honest, no one in their right mind would!! And it really confuses me as to why people who want to remain still dont see the eu for what it is. I don't think anyone in their right mind can't see the EU for what it is, I think it's more they don't want to, because they've either been brow beaten into being scared of the change, or in most cases, they have personal vested interests in the UK remaining, like they're ex pats, get funding directly from the EU for their job (which is just UK money paid to them in reality), have a pension connected to being an EU member ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 What might be scary is the political aftermath. Whilst may was/is a remainer, what could happen if corbyn gets elected. I think politics will be even more toxic / polar than it already is. I mean brexit is 50-50 split, any one party automatic alienates 50% of the party.. in an election thats crazy stuff. I cant second guess what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, cookoff013 said: I cant second guess what will happen. Corbyn favours the policies of Venezuela. They have a LOT more oil than us - and look where it got them. Under Corbyn we would end up a bit like his much admired Venezuela, but without huge reserves of oil, it would be much harder to recover afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 42 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: I don't think anyone in their right mind can't see the EU for what it is, I think it's more they don't want to, because they've either been brow beaten into being scared of the change, or in most cases, they have personal vested interests in the UK remaining, like they're ex pats, get funding directly from the EU for their job (which is just UK money paid to them in reality), have a pension connected to being an EU member ect. I work for a company that supports education and research and im happily voting leave, and like you say we throw more in than we get back.. So surely the money we get back from them will juat stay in our pocket. So unless the govt (who ever is in power) suddenly stops the funding, we still have the funding.. 10 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Corbyn favours the policies of Venezuela. They have a LOT more oil than us - and look where it got them. Under Corbyn we would end up a bit like his much admired Venezuela, but without huge reserves of oil, it would be much harder to recover afterwards. And we already sold our gold... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 Can I ask all those remainers in this thread if they think the result of the referendum should be overturned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said: I work for a company that supports education and research and im happily voting leave, and like you say we throw more in than we get back.. So surely the money we get back from them will juat stay in our pocket. So unless the govt (who ever is in power) suddenly stops the funding, we still have the funding.. And we already sold our gold... I believe that was Mr Brown in a moment of sheer stupidity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Scully said: Can I ask all those remainers in this thread if they think the result of the referendum should be overturned? I did vote 'remain' (though not through strongly held beliefs), but the outcome was leave. I accept that. Life goes on - and as I have said many times on this thread, I will now support leave and accept the majority verdict as having solid support should get us the best leave deal - which is what I want. The vote has been held - and the outcome must go ahead - it is undemocratic to try and undermine it. The result of the referendum should definately NOT be overturned. 1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: I believe that was Mr Brown in a moment of sheer stupidity! He was prone to those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 14 hours ago, Retsdon said: People will still need to buy cars regardless of where they're assembled. We were talking about car part manufacturers...and if you think that the British market will forgive any manufacturer who threatens to leave here, (or do so) over Brexit, you are mistaken! Since 2017, my daughters have switched from BMW and Mercedes, to Lexus. (They changed their cars every 3 years). One son-in-law has swapped his Merc van for a Ford Transit (yes, I know it,s assembled in the EU, but it is NOT German owned). The other son-in-law is swapping his Volkswagen estate for a Honda CR-V....I have not driven a car manufactured in the EU for the past 20 years! Just one family,s efforts! That will spread if they continue to threaten us! 14 hours ago, hambone said: People also have long memories. I still do not buy French wine or apples because of French farmers dumping Welsh lamb into a harbour and i don't buy Argentinian beef because of the Falkland conflict. I do not think I am alone in my attitude and would expect a backlash from the UK population if the EU tried to punish us for using our freedom of choice and voting to leave. You are not alone.............and it will spread! 12 hours ago, Vince Green said: Nissan drawing SUV manufacturing back to Japan has absolutely nothing at all to do with Brexit, its a war that is being fought in the Pacific rim Nissan has lost 14% of its global market already to the "exploding" global threat from Chinese car manufacturers and don't imagine that this is a problem that is going to go away or that it only affects NISSAN. The panic in Japan is blindingly obvious. China is really feeling its feet now and is set to make massive inroads into many industries, cars just being one, but a big one. Why do you think Trump has been getting so excited about putting trade restrictions on China . This is a trade war China is going to win and everybody knows it. One of 99 reasons why we need to get out of the EU, the EU will resort to pathetic protectionism to try and resist the threat from China, as will the US, both will fail miserably. On our own we can deal with China. We will not be able to resist them but we wont be damaged by a trade war. Absolutely correct Vince! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 6 hours ago, Retsdon said: Nobody is punishing anybody. Britain chose to leave the EU, and then May chose to leave the single market. It's Britain that is choosing to adopt third country status vis a vis the EU, not the other way around. As Sabine Weyand said in her recent speech, the May deal that Parliament rejected had been, after long hours of negotiation, thrashed out around British 'red lines'. But of course, nobody here actually bothers to read or listen to what the EU has to say, which seems a bit odd when you think about it. In negotiations it's generally considered a good idea to know. what the other side wants and is thinking, and even in all out war the maxim 'know your enemy' has been around for millennia. But seemingly not for hardline British Brexiters. They just build a shadowy bogie man across the channel that can be used to dump all the ills of the world on, and to whom can be attributed all kinds of malice. That might have been an understandable campaigning tactic during the Referendum campaign, but it's an extremely dangerous thing to do when hard political and economic facts come knocking. History is absolutely littered with catastrophic failures caused by people falling prey to their own propaganda. The FEAR tactic was one-sided during the Referendum, and it did NOT come from Leave! As for propaganda, the EU has a budget of £360 million a year to spend on self- promotion! The vote to Leave was a DEMOCRATIC decision, taken by the people of this country..............get used to it! 4 hours ago, ShootingEgg said: Leaving the eu would mean leaving the single market even the eu say that.. I cant quit the gym but still use the cross trainer but nothing else, cant end a golf club membership but still play the 9 hole for free. Why is it people think we can leave but keep bits.. Most of us do NOT want to keep bits! We want OUT! 1 hour ago, oowee said: Good post 👍 Look at where Nissan design centre is. Chosen as part of the future vehicles division starting with EV's for the UK. The UK secured the expansion of the design facility as it was able to demonstrate a commitment to EV, with purchase subsidy and charging infrastructure as part of along term working arrangement. This supported the leaf to be made in the UK and it was to be followed by a range of new vehicles for Europe. Some of which the UK would assemble to provide the test bed for new ev and later hydrogen propulsion systems. The UK government made a promise in 2016 to underpin new investment in the NE following the referendum and gave assurances on a future trade position. The UK has not been able to deliver on that agreement and rightly this is a huge part of future planning and as a result the manufacturing has been lost from teh UK. The design centre is likely to stay as the knowledge workers and access to research are not so mobile. Where next Honda. The Nissan decision is almost entirely around the new X-Trail proposed model, a diesel guzzler! It is a strong possibility that Nissan will not build that model at all............anywhere! They will switch to the Toyota plan, more hybrid and electric vehicles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 28 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said: I work for a company that supports education and research and im happily voting leave, and like you say we throw more in than we get back.. So surely the money we get back from them will juat stay in our pocket. So unless the govt (who ever is in power) suddenly stops the funding, we still have the funding.. And we already sold our gold... Labour did that................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, Scully said: Can I ask all those remainers in this thread if they think the result of the referendum should be overturned? Most remainers will want it all to go away.But... The nightmare landscape they , in their fevered vision, see coming after March, will be full of gloating racists and xenophobes , oowees stock will take a hit, and those pesky 'ultra right' wing 'nationalists Mr Verhofstadt warned us about will take control of our councils. Tommy Robinson becomes home Sec. You will not be able to leave the country, as flights and ferries will not be allowed to fly or sail anywhere near mainland Europe. Starvation and famine will ensue, with food shortages and our medicine stocks drying up, martial law is guaranteed . The Americans will be forced to come to our aid with stocks of chlorinated chicken that never goes off, and buffalo steaks with that many steroids in them that men become voracious sex beasts into their 70s and 80s. We will probably have to go to war with the new axis troops of Germany France and Austria (again) whilst the 'allies' of UK ,USA, Italy and Poland will give them a sound thrashing, as France surrenders before war actually breaks out. This leads to a new age of prosperity, and rich oil reserves are discovered just off Sheppey. We help rebuild Germany with our new found wealth, and 5 years later, proposals are put forward to begin a 'trade partnership' between the countries of Europe. See? Every cloud and all that ...😂 Brexit IS happening folks, like it or not, for good or bad, you are on board the good ship Blighty, so hang on to your hats, the louder you scream the faster we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 I note both oowee and Jaymo are currently perusing thecthread, so I’ll ask you two also; would you like to see the referendum result overturned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besty57 Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 😁😁😁,excellent post as usual rewulf, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Labour did that................ A very clever move at the time. Turning gold into cash that in turn could be used to earn money. The gold standard itself was abandoned back in the first world war and then again in the 30's. You cannot run an economy like ours based on gold. 2 minutes ago, Scully said: I note both oowee and Jaymo are currently perusing thecthread, so I’ll ask you two also; would you like to see the referendum result overturned? Just getting to it was trying to refresh my memory re UK gold whilst wondering what drugs Rewulf is on. If the people of the UK decide to overturn the result of the referendum than that's the will of the people and that should happen. For now the vote is to leave and we need to get on with it as this uncertainty is expensive. The sooner we do it the sooner we can get back to all the other stuff that needs sorting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, oowee said: wondering what drugs Rewulf is on Reality pills, you want some? Scully asked if YOU would like to see the brexit vote overturned, not if the country decided to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, oowee said: If the people of the UK decide to overturn the result of the referendum than that's the will of the people and that should happen. For now the vote is to leave and we need to get on with it as this uncertainty is expensive. The sooner we do it the sooner we can get back to all the other stuff that needs sorting. That’s a cop out and you know it. You’re obviously ignoring the fact that the will of the people is to leave, which speaks volumes, but for clarity do YOU think the referendum result should be overturned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, oowee said: A very clever move at the time. Turning gold into cash that in turn could be used to earn money. The gold standard itself was abandoned back in the first world war and then again in the 30's. You cannot run an economy like ours based on gold. Just getting to it was trying to refresh my memory re UK gold whilst wondering what drugs Rewulf is on. If the people of the UK decide to overturn the result of the referendum than that's the will of the people and that should happen. For now the vote is to leave and we need to get on with it as this uncertainty is expensive. The sooner we do it the sooner we can get back to all the other stuff that needs sorting. Right so let me get this straight, "If the people of the UK decide to overturn the result of the referendum than that's the will of the people and that should happen" but somehow the Referendum is not the will of the people ? and can be ignored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 44 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Labour did that................ I know labour sold it off, i am just stating what has happened. And also that the funding gets given to the eu to be given back, so i dont see an issue of it staying in uk and being given to the relevant areas fisrt hand not sent off then send a bit back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 22 minutes ago, oowee said: A very clever move at the time. Turning gold into cash that in turn could be used to earn money. The gold standard itself was abandoned back in the first world war and then again in the 30's. You cannot run an economy like ours based on gold. <snip> Not that clever given that gold was at a low at the time. And whilst the gold standard does put a ceiling on growth, it is becoming apparent that you cannot run an economy like ours based on debt either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 Just now, Scully said: That’s a cop out and you know it. You’re obviously ignoring the fact that the will of the people is to leave, which speaks volumes, but for clarity do YOU think the referendum result should be overturned? 4 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Right so let me get this straight, "If the people of the UK decide to overturn the result of the referendum than that's the will of the people and that should happen" but somehow the Referendum is not the will of the people ? and can be ignored? I am not sure I follow. The result is clear to leave and now we must do it, it is the will of the people it should happen. Do I think it was a sensible decision no. Do I think the result will produce any of the things that people apparently voted for, then no (with the exception of some likely very poor trade deals, where because of our size we will be shafted). Do I personally want to see the result 'over turned' then no that would be undemocratic. However if the people get another vote and it's overturned then that is also a democratic decision. None of this helps us get over the line 1 minute ago, ShootingEgg said: I know labour sold it off, i am just stating what has happened. And also that the funding gets given to the eu to be given back, so i dont see an issue of it staying in uk and being given to the relevant areas fisrt hand not sent off then send a bit back. Not sure what this last bit is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 26 minutes ago, oowee said: very clever move at the time. Turning gold into cash that in turn could be used to earn money. The gold standard itself was abandoned back in the first world war and then again in the 30's. You cannot run an economy like ours based on gold How was it a good move... Labour just like to spend what they don't have so saw it as a quick win and money to spend. Instead of borrowing yet more money. We think we are hard up with cuts now, let labour back in and we will. Be F'd in year to come. And it wont be austerity, it will be poverty... For all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, SpringDon said: Not that clever given that gold was at a low at the time. And whilst the gold standard does put a ceiling on growth, it is becoming apparent that you cannot run an economy like ours based on debt either. We did not know that at the time. We could all be rich with hindsight. Why cannot you run the economy on debt? Most of us run our lives based on debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 Just now, oowee said: 3 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said: I know labour sold it off, i am just stating what has happened. And also that the funding gets given to the eu to be given back, so i dont see an issue of it staying in uk and being given to the relevant areas fisrt hand not sent off then send a bit back. Not sure what this last bit is about. Why give the money to them to just get some of it back. Leave means keep it all and use where the country wants and needs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, ShootingEgg said: How was it a good move... Labour just like to spend what they don't have so saw it as a quick win and money to spend. Instead of borrowing yet more money. We think we are hard up with cuts now, let labour back in and we will. Be F'd in year to come. And it wont be austerity, it will be poverty... For all We mostly all spend what we do not have. Just now, ShootingEgg said: Why give the money to them to just get some of it back. Leave means keep it all and use where the country wants and needs What money? The gold receipts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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