BREXIT

[Rewulf]

About 20 years too late , but hey ho...

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/30/europe/germany-border-checks-grm-scli-intl/index.html

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Fancy that!

And after Merkel invited them ALL in!

Edited October 1, 2019 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Dave-G]

4 hours ago, Rewulf said:

In other news. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49877512

 

I'm beginning to suspect there is something major going on that is so likely to cause public outrage and rebellion that it has been made subject to the official secrets act. Some of which may have already been stifled in the Lords perhaps.

Sure there will be thoughts or suggestions I'm barking or gullible but there simply HAS to be a reason driving so many political parties to even consider rallying together against leaving... us exposed for example, perhaps in preparation for a war perhaps. I don't know nor profess to have any reasoning other than being sure there is a lot more deceit under the cloak of secrecy going on that us plebs have not been told about - again. 

[JohnfromUK]

12 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

there simply HAS to be a reason driving so many political parties to even consider rallying together

There is - it is that Johnson is in a minority administration - and as such is vulnerable.

However - the various opposition parties won't unite because;

• Corbyn will insist he is PM - and the others won't wear that
• The SNP will do a deal with anyone who will give them a chance at independance, but they can't see Corbyn really winning in a General Election - and no one else would give them that
• The LibDems are reluctant to prop up anyone - having caught a bad cold when they propped up Cameron

In effect politicians are doing their normal things, bickering, dithering, being petty, and achieving nothing.  These are the only things politcians do well these days.

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by JohnfromUK

[Mice!]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

There is - it is that Johnson is in a minority administration - and as such is vulnerable.

However - the various opposition parties won't unite because;

• Corbyn will insist he is PM - and the others won't wear that
• The SNP will do a deal with anyone who will give them a chance at independance, but they can't see Corbyn really winning in a General Election - and no one else would give them that
• The LibDems are reluctant to prop up anyone - haveing caught a bad cold when they propped up Cameron

In effect politicians are doing their normal things, bickering, dithering, being petty, and achieving nothing.  These are the only things politcians do well these days.

 

Johnson may well be vulnerable, but the fact the "opposition" aren't acting on it certainly can't be doing them any favours?

Isn't a week government just what the opposition is supposed to want?

[JohnfromUK]

8 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Isn't a weak government just what the opposition is supposed to want?

Yes - and they (the opposition) should be miles ahead in the opinion polls after all of the failures by the recent May and Johnson governments - but instead they are a significant way behind.  Why?  Because;

• Virtually no one wants Corbyn's policies
• Hardly anyone trusts Corbyn's front bench team of Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott, Thornberry etc.
• After the anti semite stance Labour have taken, and their support for terrorists people think they are not fit to govern
• Many people see their economic policies as simply disasterous
• Corbyn in particular has shown himself to be undecisive and dithering over Brexit, votes of no confidence and people don't think he's up to leading a dog let alone the country
• No one actually believes they would do any better

As for the Lib Dems, they have admitted they will simply ignore the referendum - and that is 17.4 million votes for other parties straight away.

Edited October 1, 2019 by JohnfromUK

[henry d]

1 hour ago, Dave-G said:

I'm beginning to suspect there is something major going on that is so likely to cause public outrage and rebellion that it has been made subject to the official secrets act............... I don't know nor profess to have any reasoning other than being sure there is a lot more deceit under the cloak of secrecy going on that us plebs have not been told about - again. 

No you are using the rationalle that all conspiracy theories are based on 2+2=5. Its a give away at the start as you say; "I`m beginning..." and it spirals off into not knowing and just having a feeling so to make it real you need to add more to it as otherwise your world makes no sense, governments that can`t, promises made but not yet fulfilled, violence, pestilence, and all sorts of strange things happening that you no longer feel you have control of.

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, henry d said:

No you are using the rationalle that all conspiracy theories are based on 2+2=5. Its a give away at the start as you say; "I`m beginning..." and it spirals off into not knowing and just having a feeling so to make it real you need to add more to it as otherwise your world makes no sense, governments that can`t, promises made but not yet fulfilled, violence, pestilence, and all sorts of strange things happening that you no longer feel you have control of.

To clarify.

There is no such thing as a conspiracy.
Governments never lie , and always , without fail, have your best interests at heart.
No one goes into politics for personal gain.
No government (except those nasty Russkies) have ever killed any of their own citizens because of their views .
The EU is a lovely organisation that has nothing but good intentions for every citizen of the world, and would never dream of creating its own army, so it can project its influence around the globe.
Uncontrolled immigration from 3 rd world countries is good for everyone, and there is no hidden agendas therein.
Socialism is the way forward for the EU , because the EU knows best, and nationalism is bad because err...well because it is.

And if you disagree with any of this , you are an uneducated nazi, and deserve to be sent for re education, as soon as we can get it past the lawmakers.
Until then , be quiet, watch your TV , and obey.

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, Dave-G said:

I'm beginning to suspect there is something major going on that is so likely to cause public outrage and rebellion that it has been made subject to the official secrets act. Some of which may have already been stifled in the Lords perhaps.

Sure there will be thoughts or suggestions I'm barking or gullible but there simply HAS to be a reason driving so many political parties to even consider rallying together against leaving... us exposed for example, perhaps in preparation for a war perhaps. I don't know nor profess to have any reasoning other than being sure there is a lot more deceit under the cloak of secrecy going on that us plebs have not been told about - again. 

They worked out that overall it’s actually not a good idea. Given a choice of explanations, the most simple one is normally the correct one.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Raja Clavata

[Rewulf]

10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

They worked out that overall it’s actually not a good idea. Given a choice of explanations, the most simple one is normally the correct one.

Allow me to translate:

Dont think about things too much, above all dont question the 'official' narrative.

The 'simple' explanation, no matter how far fetched, must be the correct one , as they have told you so.

Go back to your TV , be quiet , and continue to obey.

'The object of Socialism is not to render the individual capable of living on his personal resources. That is the theory of radical individualism. Its object is to create in him a greater and greater sense of his dependence upon the state, and, at the same time, to inculcate in him the conviction that he is a part of it and that he has a duty and responsibility toward the state; and that only in so far as he fulfils this duty can he benefit by the advantages of a complete personal and social life.'

Philip Snowden, 1st Viscount Snowden (18 July 1864 – 15 May 1937)

[Raja Clavata]

12 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Allow me to translate:

Dont think about things too much, above all dont question the 'official' narrative.

The 'simple' explanation, no matter how far fetched, must be the correct one , as they have told you so.

Go back to your TV , be quiet , and continue to obey.

'The object of Socialism is not to render the individual capable of living on his personal resources. That is the theory of radical individualism. Its object is to create in him a greater and greater sense of his dependence upon the state, and, at the same time, to inculcate in him the conviction that he is a part of it and that he has a duty and responsibility toward the state; and that only in so far as he fulfils this duty can he benefit by the advantages of a complete personal and social life.'

Philip Snowden, 1st Viscount Snowden (18 July 1864 – 15 May 1937)

Nah, just gone full circle back to your Occam’s razor, we didn’t agree then either🤪

[Rewulf]

14 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Nah, just gone full circle back to your Occam’s razor, we didn’t agree then either🤪

Pretty sure you lost that argument 😛

[Newbie to this]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Pretty sure you lost that argument 😛

But what does that matter 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Pretty sure you lost that argument 😛

That will not stop him!

Come on Boris, reveal your masterplan!

[Raja Clavata]

9 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Pretty sure you lost that argument 😛

You didn’t go as far as conceding defeat.

8 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

But what does that matter 

 

6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

That will not stop him!

Come on Boris, reveal your masterplan!

Listen to you two lol.

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

You didn’t go as far as conceding defeat.

To me thats a win  

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

No you are using the rationalle that all conspiracy theories are based on 2+2=5. Its a give away at the start as you say; "I`m beginning..." and it spirals off into not knowing and just having a feeling so to make it real you need to add more to it as otherwise your world makes no sense, governments that can`t, promises made but not yet fulfilled, violence, pestilence, and all sorts of strange things happening that you no longer feel you have control of.

Like when we were all led to believe we were just joining a common market? Only many years later do we know some of what that turned out to have hidden under the bed.

 

[Raja Clavata]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

To me thats a win  

I was going to go on and state that but figured you’d be along to confirm shortly 🤣

[TIGHTCHOKE]

9 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Like when we were all led to believe we were just joining a common market? Only many years later do we know some of what that turned out to have hidden under the bed.

That was because the politicians reckoned we weren't capable of understanding how good it would be - NOT!

[Rewulf]

Just now, Dave-G said:

Like when we were all led to believe we were just joining a common market? Only many years later do we know some of what that turned out to have hidden under the bed.

 

Move along now , no conspiracies to see here, no FCO documents, no living witnesses , we can safely ignore all that conjecture now.

The plain facts of the matter Dave, is they pushed through ever closer union, handed over our laws, very nearly put us in the Euro, which even remainers admit would have been devastating, made us shut down our industries, stole our fishing and farming capabilities, among many other radical , damaging changes to our society.
And never once gave us a vote on any of it.

They actually thought we were brainwashed enough to vote to stay in it , when 40 years later , they tried to silence the Eurosceptics once and for all.
But they didnt reckon on people like you and me, who had bottled up the anger for years.

And now they try to wriggle out of it, like the snakes they are..and theyve got that bit wrong too..

6 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I was going to go on and state that but figured you’d be along to confirm shortly 🤣

You know it 

[Dave-G]

9 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Move along now , no conspiracies to see here, no FCO documents, no living witnesses , we can safely ignore all that conjecture now.

The plain facts of the matter Dave, is they pushed through ever closer union, handed over our laws, very nearly put us in the Euro, which even remainers admit would have been devastating, made us shut down our industries, stole our fishing and farming capabilities, among many other radical , damaging changes to our society.
And never once gave us a vote on any of it.

They actually thought we were brainwashed enough to vote to stay in it , when 40 years later , they tried to silence the Eurosceptics once and for all.
But they didnt reckon on people like you and me, who had bottled up the anger for years.

And now they try to wriggle out of it, like the snakes they are..and theyve got that bit wrong too..

You know it 

I couldn't have put that any better. 

[Retsdon]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

About 20 years too late , but hey ho...

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/30/europe/germany-border-checks-grm-scli-intl/index.html

Better late than never. What is suggests to me is that European governments in general are pragmatic and, like Churchill said about the Americans,  they will eventually do the right thing  - after exhausting all the alternatives.

The EU is not some one-eyed, ideological monolith. It's a rather slow-moving club that will inevitably in time respond to the demands and trend of its members. So if enough of them want external or even internal controls - that's what'll happen, regardless. Union is paramount, and far more important that policy.

Pity that we'll be out of before everything that we wanted comes to pass. But as they say in the markets, being right and too early can as often as not be just as costly as being wrong.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Let's hope so!

[Rewulf]

8 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Union is paramount, and far more important that policy.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scottish-court-to-decide-whether-boris-johnson-can-be-jailed-over-no-deal-brexit-1-5015160

You betcha 

[Retsdon]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scottish-court-to-decide-whether-boris-johnson-can-be-jailed-over-no-deal-brexit-1-5015160

You betcha 

I was talking about the EU - not the UK, which has taken leave of its collective senses and is now involved in its own private ferret fight in a sack.