BREXIT

[Rewulf]

Just now, Retsdon said:

I was talking about the EU - not the UK, which has taken leave of its collective senses and is now involved in its own private ferret fight in a sack.

I know, but I thought it was an apt example, especially when you say the above.

17 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Union is paramount, and far more important that policy.

Apparently the 'union' is far more important than the sum total of the citizens and industries of the EU ?
Allowing a no deal scenario, because you cannot be flexible in the approach to negotiations, knowing full well it will cost the EU as a whole untold billions ?
Where is the sense in that ?
A modern day scorched earth policy.

The people trying to see Boris jailed, for attempting to deliver a winning national vote ?
I wonder how they would have felt if the 2014 Indy vote had been to leave, and their own assembly, or worse , Westminster,  refused to enact it ?
Its not a ferret fight, its the lunatics attempting to take over the asylum.
They dont have the numbers.

[Dave-G]

Looks like EU/Ireland have finally accepted the likelyhood we are leaving.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Must get a discount by buying in bulk!

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Must get a discount by buying in bulk!

I do hope they were assembled in the EU 

[Retsdon]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Allowing a no deal scenario, because you cannot be flexible in the approach to negotiations, knowing full well it will cost the EU as a whole untold billions ?
Where is the sense in that ?

Let's go back to my student Ahmed. When I refuse to falsify his grade I know that he's probably going to pan me on his student evaluation (and so might his friends) and where I work student evaluations are big factor in future pay rises, contract renewal, etc. But I also know that the other students, who know Ahmed, will provide a balance. But whatever, I still wouldn't falsify his grade because otherwise the whole grade system would become meaningless. And maintaining a proper grade standard is my duty - that's what they pay me for for God's sake.

If the only criteria that you live your life by is personal advantage, then you're pretty much lost is my view.

To come back to the EU, the EU also actually has fundamental principles and if it chucks those principles out of the window it might as well not exist. That's how it is.

Incidentally, for what it's worth if you like the Caribbean sound, this is a great radio station. https://radios.co.ni/the-sound-of-the-carebbian/

Edited October 1, 2019 by Retsdon

[Dave-G]

12 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Let's go back to my student Ahmed. When I refuse to falsify his grade I know that he's probably going to pan me on his student evaluation (and so might his friends) and where I work student evaluations are big factor in future pay rises, contract renewal, etc. But I also know that the other students, who know Ahmed, will provide a balance. But whatever, I still wouldn't falsify his grade because otherwise the whole grade system would become meaningless. And maintaining a proper grade standard is my duty - that's what they pay me for for God's sake.

If the only criteria that you live your life by is personal advantage, then you're pretty much lost is my view.

To come back to the EU, it also actually has fundamental principles. Boris is about to find out how that works...

If that floats your boat then happy days for you.

 

For others amongst us, because Brussels conspired with our own politicians to twist the common market into overseeing most of the European continents 27 countries doesn't mean that we should be meek enough to surrender to overseas rule. I can partly understand the essence of mainland Europe becoming more joined up to be fair and they are more used to being trodden on than us. I know that sounds tough but its a fact.

[henry d]

2 hours ago, Dave-G said:

Like when we were all led to believe we were just joining a common market? Only many years later do we know some of what that turned out to have hidden under the bed.

 

I rest my case.

[Rewulf]

15 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

To come back to the EU, the EU also actually has fundamental principles and if it chucks those principles out of the window it might as well not exist. That's now it is.

Lets examine that statement.

First of all, when we check what the EUs fundamental principles are, we need to decide what it actually is.

Is it a government ?
If it is, then its one that was never elected, which makes it a dictatorial hegemony, or as Mr Verhofstadt called it lately, an empire.
But that aside, if this is the case , then it has a responsibility to its citizens, this includes us , the UK (at the moment)  , and southern Ireland, yet it seems quite happy cause all kinds of strife , clinging on to its 'principles' 
What about Greece ? How has its responsibilities been covered looking at the state of that nation ?
Portugal , Spain, Catalonia , France and its rioting ?
Not a good example of governance.

How about a business?
 The EU has employees, lots of them, on great salaries and pensions/perks ?
This explains a great deal if this is the case, the citizens of the EU are just customers, with one shop to buy from (mostly) so if they get upset , well , stuff em , look after your employees first.
NOT good business practice is it ?

Last but not least.
Is it a trading bloc ?
If it was , I think only a fool will still think of it as such.

Do trading blocs get a seat at the G20 ? Their own laws , that supercede member nations ?
Their own army...?

Is it somehow a combination of all 3 things.?
Decide to yourself, which of these things the EU is, then decide what its fundamental principles are, or where they SHOULD be.
 

[Retsdon]

1 hour ago, Dave-G said:

Brussels conspired with our own politicians to twist the common market into overseeing most of the European continents 27 countries

Sorry, but this is between your own ears. The drift towards economic integration (which may have gone to far  - that's absolutely up for debate) was basically a process of convenience. 

What it wasn't  was some underhand conspiracy. Sure, there were the every present  Union-Zealots cheering on every shift in their direction. But fundamentally, if you're in a single economic union - EU, ASEAN, MERCOSUR, NAFTA, etc, - then there has to be some kind of supra-national arbitration body. Everyone who is in this kind of economic area has an overseeing court. The whole agreement couldn't work without one.

There's a lot of ***** talked about the EU on this thread. Basically it just does what it as to do to keep the train on the tracks.

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, henry d said:

I rest my case.

I would.

[panoma1]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

Sorry, but this is between your own ears. The drift towards economic integration (which may have gone to far  - that's absolutely up for debate) was basically a process of convenience. 

What it wasn't  was some underhand conspiracy. Sure, there were the every present  Union-Zealots cheering on every shift in their direction. But fundamentally, if you're in a single economic union - EU, ASEAN, MERCOSUR, NAFTA, etc, - then there has to be some kind of supra-national arbitration body. Everyone who is in this kind of economic area has an overseeing court. The whole agreement couldn't work without one.

There's a lot of ***** talked about the EU on this thread. Basically it just does what it as to do to keep the train on the tracks.

And there’s a lot of pro EU ***** posted on this thread too!

[Newbie to this]

38 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

What it wasn't  was some underhand conspiracy

Did you read the UK document that was filed under the official secrets act!

100% it was an underhand conspiracy. It's true intentions were clearly spelt out in the document, even back then they were inspiring to be a superstate/superpower.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m3860q91f7vvg04/FCO%2B30%2B1048.pdf?dl=0

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Newbie to this

[oowee]

12 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Did you read the UK document that was filed under the official secrets act!

100% it was an underhand conspiracy. It's true intentions were clearly spelt out in the document, even back then they were inspiring to be a superstate/superpower.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m3860q91f7vvg04/FCO%2B30%2B1048.pdf?dl=0

 

Another Tory back stabbing ? 

[Scully]

2 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Better late than never. What is suggests to me is that European governments in general are pragmatic and, like Churchill said about the Americans,  they will eventually do the right thing  - after exhausting all the alternatives.

The EU is not some one-eyed, ideological monolith. It's a rather slow-moving club that will inevitably in time respond to the demands and trend of its members. So if enough of them want external or even internal controls - that's what'll happen, regardless. Union is paramount, and far more important that policy.

Pity that we'll be out of before everything that we wanted comes to pass. But as they say in the markets, being right and too early can as often as not be just as costly as being wrong.

I don’t know if that’s just staggeringly naive, or blatant patronisation! The EU has had 40 years to respond to the trends and demands of its ‘club’ members. Are you serious? 

Besides the above, what sort of a club demands its own armed forces and representation at G20 summits? 

Club! 🙃

[oowee]

Looks like BJ is close to the big reveal. Fingers and toes crossed, he has what it takes.

[Scully]

Made me laugh when it showed on the news, a woman straightening his hair before he met reporters.  Wonder what it was like beforehand! 😀

[panoma1]

8 minutes ago, Scully said:

Made me laugh when it showed on the news, a woman straightening his hair before he met reporters.  Wonder what it was like beforehand! 😀

A lavatory brush? 

[Capt Christopher Jones]

On 29/09/2019 at 16:51, Scully said:

That remains to be seen. I don't believe we're going to leave, but the next GE will in effect be the second referendum.

Mistake number 1 was giving us a referendum. A remainer going straight back to the EU to try and drive concessions? I don't think so. 

Very true

Sensible Countries governments have a parliamentary, vote THEN offer the Country a vote to confirm that result.

Cameron is a fool, who thought he would walk it , that why we are in this unholy mess

[Retsdon]

I know this isn't Brexit but I don't know where to put it. Anyway...

The dog in my new Avatar was called Jaff and if I ever get to Heaven...... He was a single pup out of a son of Davie Guild's Tweed, a lineage that's still going.... I arranged to buy him and drove up to the other side of Glenshee in a blizzard to pick him up. But although I'd had indications,  it was only when he about 3 months old that I knew he was different. I was down at the steading, sorting ewes and young lambs with a couple of older dogs. Now, anyone who has ever worked sheep with dogs knows that ewes wlth lambs at foot are hard as hell and you need strong dogs to move them at all. Anyway, what happened was that Jaff, who was just a pup really, heard all the carry-on down at the steading and somehow got free from outside my house and came down to investigate. He wandered into this scene and next thing, before I could get him out of there, this old greyface ewe took one look at him and from the side so he couldn't her coming. clattered him in the ribs, clean off the road and literally into the ditch. So now I was thinking, hell there's a potentially good trials dog ruined for life. Because that sort of thing will leave an imprint that you can't erase.

None of it. He emerged from the ditch. Then he looked around, saw the ewe (she was still looking at him) and I could see his mind working...it was like ...you was it? OK, see how you like this - and the next thing he was hanging off her nose and she was going backwards as fast as she could.

He was a wonderful dog. Physically he was small for a border collie and he was always thin, despite that he was fed like a fighting cock. But never mind small,  I could have penned rhino with him. He would never back down from any creature living and they knew it. But at the same time in trials  he would know that it was against the rules to use his teeth and he would be as patient as a saint.Sometimes in a trial, when we had difficult sheep he'd give me this look at the pen (the stage where the handler has got the gate rope in one hand and a stick in the other trying to coax sheep backwards into a four sided pen). The sheep would be grouped, I'd be in position, and the command was 'come on up'. One slow foot after the other he'd come up (he never ever went off his feet) and the sheep would edge backwards. Again, it was a murmured 'come on up' and he'd move forward. And then, sometimes you'd get one of these old blackface ewes that would say to herself 'enough of this' and she'd stamp her foot and put her head down. And I'd just murmur 'come on up' again. So he'd move forward and the sheep would move backwards. Then she's stamp again and wave her head. And then he'd very slowly give me this look out of the corner of his eye. And the look said it all. 'just say the word, and this ewe will hit the back of that pen so fast...'. And I'd say 'steady now - come on up ' , and without a word of a lie he'd literally give this huge sigh before taking another slow step forward

His only failing was that he wouldn't even look at juvenile stock  - lambs, calves, etc. I have no idea why not. but I think somehow that  he thought it was beneath his dignity to work them and he'd  just pretend he couldn't see them. Like he'd just avert his head and look in the other direction, At first it really ground my gears, but when I finally accepted that that was just how he was, it wasn't a problem. If II knew I might have to work young stock I just took a different dog.

Anyway, that's the story of my new avatar.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Retsdon

[oowee]

Looking at the news tonight, the reality of the NI border is looming large. The two countries just have to get used to the job losses or find a way to work around it. 

[Capt Christopher Jones]

14 minutes ago, oowee said:

Looks like BJ is close to the big reveal. Fingers and toes crossed, he has what it takes.

 

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Capt Christopher Jones said:

Very true

Sensible Countries governments have a parliamentary, vote THEN offer the Country a vote to confirm that result.

Cameron is a fool, who thought he would walk it , that why we are in this unholy mess

Pretty certain parliament voted to have a referendum, with a straightforward in out vote? 

What do you mean? 

[oowee]

Sounds a cracking dog. Fancy a collie myself. 

[Retsdon]

7 minutes ago, oowee said:

Sounds a cracking dog. Fancy a collie myself. 

I've always said that unless you have the proper work them, don't get one. Keeping a border collie as a pet in my view is like keeping a Ferrari or a Porsche to pull the caravan. it's not fair on the car...

[Scully]

Cracking story; everyone should have a dog, 👍