BASC statement

[mick miller]

No, copper monolithic are way easier to shoot from a rifle, just expensive. For range use I see no reason why we couldn't continue to use lead and copper jacketed bullets. Air rifles may pose a problem though, granted.

[wymberley]

8 hours ago, Dibble said:

Absolutely agree I feel BASC have performed a sudden U turn on this from disparaging "The Lead Advisory Group" to chucking clay shooting under the bus. Has new science suddenly emerged about lead that they arn't telling us.

 

I think the Phrase "chuck under the bus" is now old and under used so I will propose another.

BASC are so fixated on certain areas of shooting (driven game) that they endanger other shooters, they "Follow across the line".

 

 

I would hope not as in all probability it would be to our detriment, but on the other hand if there is further information it would be to our advantage irrespective of whether it's good or bad news for us to know about it

"all this talk of banning lead shot....." All what talk? Dogs were sleeping until someone was silly enough to wake them up. In view of the history, I can't help but wonder why one would do that for no apparent reason.

[rbrowning2]

Think they are already wide awake

https://www.face.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/EN_lead_ban.pdf

hence the steel shot is wonderful articles recently in the shooting press and BASC magazine.

 

[Dibble]

“Although FACE supports phasing out the use of lead shot over wetlands, it does not support general bans on lead in ammunition. From FACE’s perspective, any further measures beyond lead shot over wetlands must be proportional with the demonstrated risks to wildlife populations and human health via game consumption (taking into account risk management measures).”

BASC is a member of FACE but seems to be running counter to their statement?

 

[Lloyd90]

BASC is sitting on millions of Pounds of members money. I want to see them making adverts that feature on television. I was to see adverts about game shooting that touch the heart like the John Lewis type adverts. 

 

They have a profoundly expensive state of the art media centre, why aren't they pumping out pro shooting films and adverts. 

 

The likes of Dave Carrie' is producing excellent shooting videos, several non-shooting friends have seen them after I sent them over and bought into the romance and idea around it and wanted to give game shooting  try. 

BASC should be making video's like this and hitting the general public, not just preaching to the membership who are already on side. 

[mick miller]

4 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

BASC is sitting on millions of Pounds of members money. I want to see them making adverts that feature on television. I was to see adverts about game shooting that touch the heart like the John Lewis type adverts. 

 

They have a profoundly expensive state of the art media centre, why aren't they pumping out pro shooting films and adverts. 

 

The likes of Dave Carrie' is producing excellent shooting videos, several non-shooting friends have seen them after I sent them over and bought into the romance and idea around it and wanted to give game shooting  try. 

BASC should be making video's like this and hitting the general public, not just preaching to the membership who are already on side. 

They won't, they simply do not have anywhere near the levels of expertise to film anything remotely close either in terms of quality or narrative. But, I could help direct them toward an award winning production team who could, and affordably so.

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, mick miller said:

They won't, they simply do not have anywhere near the levels of expertise to film anything remotely close either in terms of quality or narrative. But, I could help direct them toward an award winning production team who could, and affordably so.

That’s not the point is it! I don’t have the expertise to fix my own car, but I take it to someone who does. 
 

As you say, they could easily get someone in to make brilliant promotional films for money, so why aren’t they? 
 

 

[oowee]

9 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

That’s not the point is it! I don’t have the expertise to fix my own car, but I take it to someone who does. 
 

As you say, they could easily get someone in to make brilliant promotional films for money, so why aren’t they? 
 

 

Your right with films. Somewhere on you tube is a wonderful film of deer stalking in scotland where the hunters row to an island and go stalking. Its evovative and thought provoking. It's this type of story we need to tell. BASC could start to commission such content to assist with the hearts and minds campaign. The recent vegan series is a case in point of the power of  persuassion from a well told story. BASC could look to creating a series of such documetary story telling. It need not cost the earth to make. 

[Lloyd90]

27 minutes ago, oowee said:

Your right with films. Somewhere on you tube is a wonderful film of deer stalking in scotland where the hunters row to an island and go stalking. Its evovative and thought provoking. It's this type of story we need to tell. BASC could start to commission such content to assist with the hearts and minds campaign. The recent vegan series is a case in point of the power of  persuassion from a well told story. BASC could look to creating a series of such documetary story telling. It need not cost the earth to make. 

 

Exactly.

There's shows on Netflix such as MeatEater. The bloke hunts all over the USA with his rifle, you feel like your living the experience! Its amazingly well done and it's just two blokes hunting and a camera man. 

Amazon Prime have a show called The Flush, following bird hunters all over America. 

 

The UK has a very niche field, we claim some of our driven shooting and deer stalking is the best you can get. We should be making amazing video's that not only promote this to the public, but also bring in business from around the world. 

[mick miller]

My mate, who I worked with at CiTV and MTV, filmed all of these: https://www.thebotanist.com/wild-a-state-of-mind/

They win awards. He's not expensive, really, in comparison he is super cheap. The guy that filmed the Scottish Stalker is a pal of his too I believe (not 100% on this). You mean this film. Jura, Deer Island.

Edited January 22, 2020 by mick miller

[Lloyd90]

2 minutes ago, mick miller said:

My mate, who I worked with at CiTV and MTV, filmed all of these: https://www.thebotanist.com/wild-a-state-of-mind/

They win awards. He's not expensive, really, in comparison he is super cheap. The guy that filmed the Scottish Stalker is a pal of his too I believe. You mean this film. Jura, Deer Island.

 

 

Great film making and editing together. They should be making video's like that every month all over the country. 

Instead I only really see them preaching to the membership. 

 

[mudpatten]

Fieldsports Britain or TGS Outdoors - The Gun Shop - spring to mind as a starting point for basc`s assault on the televisual media.

Don`t hold your breath though. For 9 years BASC employed a videographer who apparently did very little. Look at their You Tube channel to see the pathetic number of viewers for their expensively produced films.

It`s only in recent months that any of the BASC line managers actually noticed that the bloke did very little from one days end to the next and dispensed with his services. The videographer was good at his job, but was desperately poorly managed.

[oowee]

3 hours ago, mick miller said:

My mate, who I worked with at CiTV and MTV, filmed all of these: https://www.thebotanist.com/wild-a-state-of-mind/

They win awards. He's not expensive, really, in comparison he is super cheap. The guy that filmed the Scottish Stalker is a pal of his too I believe. You mean this film. Jura, Deer Island.

Thats the one. What a great film. 

I would get your mate on the case. We had some chap from BASC com's on here somewhere If I can find him I will suggest it to him. Was his name Connel or Conner? 

[mick miller]

I'm not 100% Euan (Jura, Deer Island) is a colleague or pal, I just seem to remember something mentioned about the film. But the Botanist films are all my pals work, genuinely good stuff and wins awards. The style is just right and either would be capable to get the narrative over in an engaging way.

The Deer Island film is just lovely though, I can watch that again and again. Perfectly and succinctly conveying the raw beauty, necessity and benefit of what the stalker aspires to achieve.

Edited January 22, 2020 by mick miller

[GingerCat]

14 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

BASC should be making video's like this and hitting the general public, not just preaching to the membership who are already on side. 

I've yet to see a single one outside of a shooting magazine. 

It's an ever decreasing circle if they carry on as they are and they must spread the message far and wide. 

[Saltings]

On 21/01/2020 at 07:46, David BASC said:

It's down to all who shoot to help prove the sustainability of shooting, shoots complying with the Code of Good of Shooting Practice would be a good start, it details for example, maximum stocking densities for released game, the need for all shot game to go into the food chain, and much more.

The code is not hard to follow and comply with.

Shooting and Conservation go hand in hand, we just need to keep showing this, whether its at national level or on your local shoot. 

Get a copy of the Code and check that your game shoot is complying, regardless of how many birds you put down or rear on the land.

If anyone wants a hard copy of the Code, member of BASC or not just e-mail me with your postal address and I will send you one, david.ilsley@basc.org.uk, or pop onto the BASC website and do  a 'search' for the Code

David

david  I struggle as dyslexic     this sounds to me as talking down to me / others         I  am not stupid    I grew up on a farm  and conservation was practiced long before basc  and still would without basc as country folk just do that    as a love for the countryside and all in it      which is why we have the landscapes we now have and enjoy  hundreds of years of planning   it didn't just happen   its all conservation    and i understand most country sports       where I don't      I listen to people who do and are protective of their way of life     don't preach   listen

a code of good practice is a given     regardless   country folk do            checkbook hunters

I have been a basc member for well  over 30 yrs  without question  paid the subs not asked for anything in return        why should I or others  listen to    bs    and hand over their hard earned without proof of action on our behalf     as you guys are our represantives   in parliament against injustices to country sports    (  ALL COUNTRY SPORTS )     we are not religious and believe what we cannot see   

actions speak louder than words  maybe  its time you guys listen to your members  and promote all hunting / shooting and fishing  and the benefits to many other  protected species inc local economy  controlled burning of moorlands  as fire breaks     as we did     on lowland  peat bogs in Ireland      we didn't have any grouse  so Packham's argument  is ****    loads of other species live on new growth   so we don't see another ozz bushfire  out of control  Pete bogs can burn for years underground very difficult to control  however easy to manage by the people who live and work in the countryside      so take their advise and work with it     as in any other environment       work with the people who do rather than tell them what to do       as you have read a book 

geramy corban      didn't  listen     it didn't work out too well for his party    

we don't have to pay basc   subs  we can get public liability  ins  anywhere  for less 

again david  we are all supposed to be on the same side so why the  infighting        promote the benefits  of all aspects  of countryside sports  and open areas    to the unaware    of good quality seasonal  foods     a brace of pheasants  25p  many a struggling family would be great full      beats Tesco **** nuggets     or bend over for  vegans / vegetarians   antis /snowflakes 

proactive      better than damage limitation

   I may not have got this rite im up for a debate 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Saltings

[David BASC]

Saltings,

Apologies if this came across as talking down to people, that was not the intention. The code was developed by all the main shooting organisations and give a good outline of the basic principles that shoots should run by. I have no doubt that the vast majority of shoots will stick to the code, but sadly shooting is not just judged by those who do it properly, like most things in life we are judged by those who do the wrong things, 

As to game being used to feed others, yes its already happening, and its a great way to help show just one of the many benefits of shooting.

But for shooting to remain sustainable, all shoots and shooters need to ensure they do the right things, otherwise the majority who do will suffer because of the minority who do not

[dodgy dave]

5 hours ago, Saltings said:

david  I struggle as dyslexic     this sounds to me as talking down to me / others         I  am not stupid    I grew up on a farm  and conservation was practiced long before basc  and still would without basc as country folk just do that    as a love for the countryside and all in it      which is why we have the landscapes we now have and enjoy  hundreds of years of planning   it didn't just happen   its all conservation    and i understand most country sports       where I don't      I listen to people who do and are protective of their way of life     don't preach   listen

a code of good practice is a given     regardless   country folk do            checkbook hunters

I have been a basc member for well  over 30 yrs  without question  paid the subs not asked for anything in return        why should I or others  listen to    bs    and hand over their hard earned without proof of action on our behalf     as you guys are our represantives   in parliament against injustices to country sports    (  ALL COUNTRY SPORTS )     we are not religious and believe what we cannot see   

actions speak louder than words  maybe  its time you guys listen to your members  and promote all hunting / shooting and fishing  and the benefits to many other  protected species inc local economy  controlled burning of moorlands  as fire breaks     as we did     on lowland  peat bogs in Ireland      we didn't have any grouse  so Packham's argument  is ****    loads of other species live on new growth   so we don't see another ozz bushfire  out of control  Pete bogs can burn for years underground very difficult to control  however easy to manage by the people who live and work in the countryside      so take their advise and work with it     as in any other environment       work with the people who do rather than tell them what to do       as you have read a book 

geramy corban      didn't  listen     it didn't work out too well for his party    

we don't have to pay basc   subs  we can get public liability  ins  anywhere  for less 

again david  we are all supposed to be on the same side so why the  infighting        promote the benefits  of all aspects  of countryside sports  and open areas    to the unaware    of good quality seasonal  foods     a brace of pheasants  25p  many a struggling family would be great full      beats Tesco **** nuggets     or bend over for  vegans / vegetarians   antis /snowflakes 

proactive      better than damage limitation

   I may not have got this rite im up for a debate 

 

 

well said mate 

[Farmboy91]

@David BASC 

I think all the vast majority of us want to do is see you take the fight to them.

As has been mentioned, there are a few good field sports channels out there on YouTube for a start and I bet they'd be more than happy to be involved and make the sort of content we need to put the ball back in our court.

I'm not digging, but, BASC is probably one, if not the most powerful tool we have to wield and the fieldsports community want to make the most of it before its too late because I'm sure we all know there will come a point where it won't matter how big you are, how much money is in the bank or how loud BASC or anyone else decide to shout.

It will be to late.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Farmboy91

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, David BASC said:

Saltings,

Apologies if this came across as talking down to people, that was not the intention. The code was developed by all the main shooting organisations and give a good outline of the basic principles that shoots should run by. I have no doubt that the vast majority of shoots will stick to the code, but sadly shooting is not just judged by those who do it properly, like most things in life we are judged by those who do the wrong things, 

As to game being used to feed others, yes its already happening, and its a great way to help show just one of the many benefits of shooting.

But for shooting to remain sustainable, all shoots and shooters need to ensure they do the right things, otherwise the majority who do will suffer because of the minority who do not

Well done BASC. Recognising that there actually is a problem is often more than half the battle. We keep hearing the "game" word but I imagine that as in all probability there are more non game shooters making up the membership than the pure game folk and hopefully this will be taken into account. Having recognised the problem, what does BASC intend doing to rectify it voluntarily -  apart from being the right and a good thing to do would be ideal -  before either BASC is forced to do it, or worse, someone else does?

[old'un]

On 22/01/2020 at 11:47, Lloyd90 said:

BASC is sitting on millions of Pounds of members money. I want to see them making adverts that feature on television. I was to see adverts about game shooting that touch the heart like the John Lewis type adverts. 

 

They have a profoundly expensive state of the art media centre, why aren't they pumping out pro shooting films and adverts. 

 

The likes of Dave Carrie' is producing excellent shooting videos, several non-shooting friends have seen them after I sent them over and bought into the romance and idea around it and wanted to give game shooting  try. 

BASC should be making video's like this and hitting the general public, not just preaching to the membership who are already on side. 

Are you talking about main stream TV? If so would that not be down to the broadcaster to decide if they would allow these to-be shown?

[Farmboy91]

3 minutes ago, old'un said:

Are you talking about main stream TV? If so would that not be down to the broadcaster to decide if they would allow these to-be shown?

Nothing wrong with putting some pressure on the BBC as after all they are unbiased....

[old'un]

6 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said:

Nothing wrong with putting some pressure on the BBC as after all they are unbiased....

Fair point but can you imagine the complaints that any broadcaster would get if they started showing videos like that.

Perhaps a more gentle approach might work, bit like the old Jack Hargreaves “Out of Town”

[Farmboy91]

15 minutes ago, old'un said:

Fair point but can you imagine the complaints that any broadcaster would get if they started showing videos like that.

Perhaps a more gentle approach might work, bit like the old Jack Hargreaves “Out of Town”

To me it wouldn't have to be anything as extreme as what the anti's like to show. Just a gentle nudge to show what we all try and do to protect the countryside and wildlife we love. 

I can't say I've seen ' Out of Town' I shall look it up though 👍

[old'un]

The idea is not new but that type of program fell out of favour with some broadcasters, the only thing near is Country file but even that shy’s away from any gory stuff, there was perhaps an opportunity with farmer Adam Henson but I bet he was told to keep away from anything that might bring a flood of complaints and now has announced he is leveing the program.

This is what I am getting at…https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/843725/Countryfile-viewers-SLAM-BBC-controversial-shooting-Matt-Baker-Anita-Rani-Ellie-Harrison