Channel invasion

[old man]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

The solution to that is to ship them out to a country that is prepared to accept them for a fee. Israel does this very successfully, they ship them to somewhere like Namibia and pay the country about £2,500 to take them. 

The interesting outcome of this apparently is that people now realise the Israelis mean business and its not just an idle threat so they don't destroy their paperwork in the first place. The Israelis turn illegals around in about 48 hours. Being firm works, they are not nasty or cruel but they don't hang about.

Something that actually works, maybe not for us PC 'uns, better to destroy our social care and NHS?

[Rewulf]

6 hours ago, henry d said:

That`s how the Flat Earth Society start things. The data is there and the blind need not bother to look at it.

You have an unhealthy obsession with flat earth conspiracy theories. 

They are as bonkers as some of your other ideas. 

The data, as you refer to it, is about as reliable as the persons supplying it. 

Take that as you will. 

[12gauge82]

8 hours ago, henry d said:

That`s how the Flat Earth Society start things. The data is there and the blind need not bother to look at it.

I fail to see any semblance of parity in your analogie.

It is blindingly obvious that there has been mass immigration into this country.

There is no scientific proof of a flat earth!

Denying that the UK is a desirable destination for economic migrants is like flat earthers denying the world is round.

[henry d]

12 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I fail to see any semblance of parity in your analogie.

It is blindingly obvious that there has been mass immigration into this country.

There is no scientific proof of a flat earth!

Denying that the UK is a desirable destination for economic migrants is like flat earthers denying the world is round.

It's quite simple really, the FES say "Look out across the plains or the sea, it looks flat so it must be flat, so we put together experiments to prove our thesis." Same as you really; "I see this so it must be right..."

Problem is that the facts I gave, just like the FES and science, gets trashed because people don't want to change their deep seated ideologies. Our country has lots of migrants but our numbers pale compared to other countries, our benefits system is not the reason migrants want to come here, yes for some it may be but the stats prove it is not a major factor for choice of country.

The science is linked earlier in the thread, have a look.

[Newbie to this]

24 minutes ago, henry d said:

It's quite simple really, the FES say "Look out across the plains or the sea, it looks flat so it must be flat, so we put together experiments to prove our thesis." Same as you really; "I see this so it must be right..."

Problem is that the facts I gave, just like the FES and science, gets trashed because people don't want to change their deep seated ideologies. Our country has lots of migrants but our numbers pale compared to other countries, our benefits system is not the reason migrants want to come here, yes for some it may be but the stats prove it is not a major factor for choice of country.

The science is linked earlier in the thread, have a look.

That may be the case (also may not be the case), but as I have said before the NHS is a massive reason why people choose the UK as the destination of choice. 

Before you jump on the defence of 'of course everyone lands in the UK in need of medical attention' and so on.

It's not about needing the NHS it's about knowing it is there and free to use if you ever need it!

Edited February 20, 2020 by Newbie to this

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, henry d said:

It's quite simple really, the FES say "Look out across the plains or the sea, it looks flat so it must be flat, so we put together experiments to prove our thesis." Same as you really; "I see this so it must be right..."

You know that's bunkum. 

The crux of the flat earthers 'belief' is that we have been lied to for hundreds of years, we are surrounded by an ice wall with armed guards atop, and the sun moon and stars are torches in the sky. 

They don't care about the science, all they do is based on the lie. So there is no experiment that can be done to prove them wrong. 

Half the world believe in a similar system, its called faith. 

2 hours ago, henry d said:

Problem is that the facts I gave, just like the FES and science, gets trashed because people don't want to change their deep seated ideologies.

Case rested. 

 

2 hours ago, henry d said:

Our country has lots of migrants but our numbers pale compared to other countries, our benefits system is not the reason migrants want to come here, yes for some it may be but the stats prove it is not a major factor for choice of country

Is uncontrolled migration, plus illegal migration a problem to the UK, as in finances, social cohesion and infrastructure? 

Of course it is, and you can keep wringing out your liberal heart, but it's the way it is, and the MAJORITY believe it to be so, and seek to redress it. 

 

[henry d]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

That may be the case (also may not be the case), but as I have said before the NHS is a massive reason why people choose the UK as the destination of choice. 

Where's your proof?

[figgy]

Just dont let them in simples. Shoot a few smugglers on the sea. They will think twice, it's no different than a bloody invasion.

Not being part of Europe should work in out favour, like pee off the doors shut.

Edited February 20, 2020 by figgy

[Dave-G]

Shame the SBS aren't regularly deployed to exercises in the channel and accidentally puncturing the odd inflatable.

[Rewulf]

25 minutes ago, henry d said:

Where's your proof?

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/uk-population/

10 million extra people since 2000 (that we know about) the majority being migrants and dependents, and very little improvement in infrastructure to compensate, mainly because we have a system that refuses to recognise they have made the UK their permanent home.

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

Where's your proof?

I bow down to your superior knowledge on such matters, and admit you have me there I have no proof.

I'm obviously oblivious to the fact that all immigrants come to the UK with appropriate medical insurance or return home when they need to see a GP and never register with one in the UK (for free) or even go to A&E (for free), but instead rush to the airport or ferry port to seek emergency care back home.

If we didn't have the NHS, I would worry about what would happen if I needed medial care (any sane person would).

If I could go somewhere (even if I intended to work) and get free medical care (if it was ever needed), it would look very attractive!

Edited February 20, 2020 by Newbie to this

[henry d]

No need to take a condescending tone, I never called you stupid or ill informed, I provided the best facts I could find and provided a link, but it appears no one wants to read it and most seem to make suppositions based on little or no factual basis.

Go on, have a read...

[Newbie to this]

26 minutes ago, henry d said:

No need to take a condescending tone, I never called you stupid or ill informed, I provided the best facts I could find and provided a link, but it appears no one wants to read it and most seem to make suppositions based on little or no factual basis.

Go on, have a read...

Sorry for the condescending tone.

But you asked for proof of something which cannot be proven. 

You have to admit that free health care must be very inviting to anyone who -

A: doesn't get that where they are from.

B: cannot afford the insurance in their homeland.

So by my logic, the NHS and with it the medical peace of mind, must play a massive part in their decision to come to the UK.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Newbie to this

[henry d]

Ok, from another perspective, why do the vast majority of migrants go to Germany then? If I remember correctly their healthcare is not free, how illogical is that?

[Rewulf]

On 11/02/2020 at 21:09, henry d said:

Usual garbage, go read the link I posted earlier.

 

On 19/02/2020 at 12:56, henry d said:

That`s how the Flat Earth Society start things. The data is there and the blind need not bother to look at it.

 

On 12/02/2020 at 18:07, henry d said:

Looking forward to seeing your data...

 

On 12/02/2020 at 10:07, henry d said:

I bow to your greater knowledge and more scientific method sir!

 

 

On 11/02/2020 at 17:34, henry d said:

You didn't read it did you, it would explain a lot and is not too hard to understand.

 

31 minutes ago, henry d said:

No need to take a condescending tone,

2 minutes ago, henry d said:

Ok, from another perspective, why do the vast majority of migrants go to Germany then? If I remember correctly their healthcare is not free, how illogical is that?

Or not...

In the wake of the European refugee crisis, Germany has received over a million new applications for asylum in the last two years. The health care system is struggling to provide asylum-seekers with access to essential medical services and facilitate their longer-term integration. In this article, we report on the morbidity, utilization and costs of care for a sample of asylum-seekers as compared to a matched group of regularly insured. Using administrative data, we found that asylum-seekers had more hospital and emergency department admissions, including more admissions that could be avoided through good outpatient care or prevention. Their average expenditures were 10 percent higher than for the regularly insured, mostly because of higher hospital expenditures, although there was substantial variation in expenditures by country of origin. Facilitating access to the health care system, especially outpatient and mental health care, could improve asylum-seekers health status and integration, possibly at lower costs.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5967831/

[old man]

Society may well find that the reasons are both misunderstood and irrelevant when the inevitable happens and the wheels come off?

[bavarianbrit]

From 1940-44 there were systems in place to stop unwanted visitors to these shores so why can we no longer protect our coasts? The ferries/airport do a robust control before boarding for UK bound travel so few get through that way unless they bomb Hounslow with frozen wanabees when coming in to land.  BJ just needs to want to stop it like his mentor Churchill did.

[Dave-G]

It'd be worth UK paying France a £2K per person landing fee to accept the return of persons attempting the crossing, while bringing the boat they used back to the UK and witnessing its destruction., Maybe sell the outboard motor. 10 on a boat gets £20K

That sounds expensive but it would need to be enough to make it good value to the French - while sending a message that further attempts could result in the same. £100K worth of investment might well put a stop to further attempts made in the knowledge that rescue calls or discovery would lead to their safe transit to a french port.

Good value to the French also because it would minimise migrants heading to their illegal camps.

[henry d]

1 hour ago, Dave-G said:

It'd be worth UK paying France a £2K per person landing fee to accept the return of persons attempting the crossing, while bringing the boat they used back to the UK and witnessing its destruction., Maybe sell the outboard motor. 10 on a boat gets £20K

That sounds expensive but it would need to be enough to make it good value to the French - while sending a message that further attempts could result in the same. £100K worth of investment might well put a stop to further attempts made in the knowledge that rescue calls or discovery would lead to their safe transit to a french port.

Good value to the French also because it would minimise migrants heading to their illegal camps.

What don't you understand? Migrants heading to the UK are not coming here for benefits, check out the link I posted.

Perhaps you just want to continue paying the EU money, but I think not.

[henry d]

Thanks to someone who pointed out rewulfs post, I have had his posts blocked for some time now.

Please read the whole article; "Competing Interests: This research was conducted in collaboration with the Barmer health plan, which also provided a nominal honorarium to the authors." 

Nice of them to say so, I wonder how much "nominal" is?

[Vince Green]

9 hours ago, henry d said:

Where's your proof?

No Henry, where is your proof? 

 

2 hours ago, Dave-G said:

It'd be worth UK paying France a £2K per person landing fee to accept the return of persons attempting the crossing, while bringing the boat they used back to the UK and witnessing its destruction., Maybe sell the outboard motor. 10 on a boat gets £20K

That sounds expensive but it would need to be enough to make it good value to the French - while sending a message that further attempts could result in the same. £100K worth of investment might well put a stop to further attempts made in the knowledge that rescue calls or discovery would lead to their safe transit to a french port.

Good value to the French also because it would minimise migrants heading to their illegal camps.

France I am sure would not accept them back at any price but your basic theory is sound. It would send a message and over time it would stop the flow

[Rewulf]

38 minutes ago, henry d said:

What don't you understand? Migrants heading to the UK are not coming here for benefits, check out the link I posted

More condescension, plus a very tenuous grasp of what drives migration !

You have no actual idea why migrants come here, you seriously believe your little corner of Scotland is a yardstick you can measure the rest of the UK against ? 😂😂

18 minutes ago, henry d said:

Thanks to someone who pointed out rewulfs post, I have had his posts blocked for some time now

• I know , but I'll keep replying to yours , obviously you have struggled with my replies for some reason, who knew PW had a safe space 

[Rewulf]

8 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Henry, where is your proof?

He gave it you in his completely unbiased link, paid for by the eu and open society org survey of 4400 * refugees * back in 2016.

In which they were asked , are you a genuine refugee, fleeing war , violence,  human trafficking or political intimidation ?

Strangely enough 90 % said yes and went on to claim asylum, in whatever country they had they're eye on.

The other 10 % they just let go anyway ....

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

What don't you understand? Migrants heading to the UK are not coming here for benefits, check out the link I posted.

Perhaps you just want to continue paying the EU money, but I think not.

I didn't imply migrants are coming here for benefits in this topic.  I actually think some are determined to reduce our nationalistic tendencies by various means that I lack the word power to discuss without making me look like a far right winger - which I'm not. That I have concerns about the subject doesn't make me one - but I DO feel we should be in total control of who gets to come here, and that they arrive through the front door with a check-able paper trail.

 

They have traversed several safe countries to get here, so I think very few of those arriving by boat are genuine refugees.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Dave-G

[12gauge82]

12 hours ago, henry d said:

It's quite simple really, the FES say "Look out across the plains or the sea, it looks flat so it must be flat, so we put together experiments to prove our thesis." Same as you really; "I see this so it must be right..."

Problem is that the facts I gave, just like the FES and science, gets trashed because people don't want to change their deep seated ideologies. Our country has lots of migrants but our numbers pale compared to other countries, our benefits system is not the reason migrants want to come here, yes for some it may be but the stats prove it is not a major factor for choice of country.

The science is linked earlier in the thread, have a look.

The reason we don't get as many is obvious and you really don't need stats and government figures to work out that we are an island surrounded by water, which makes us one of the hardest destinations to reach and yet still economic migrants try to come, why are the thousands of migrants camped of the French coast? Why would you go to all the extra effort of getting to the UK if there wasn't something in it, like the NHS or easy benefits?