Self employed

[Vince Green]

Apparantly self employed people are defined as those who have registered with HMRC as self employed and have a ten digit UTR. Those who have filed a self assessment tax return in the past two years will receive a payment based on one twelfth of their annual earnings less expenses and tax  each month.

Those who have not filed a self assessment in the past two years will not receive anything.

Any payment received will be classed as income and must be declared on their next self assessment tax return

Edited March 28, 2020 by Vince Green

[Scully]

3 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Apparantly self employed people are defined as those who have registered with HMRC as self employed and have a ten digit UTR. Those who have filed a self assessment tax return in the past two years will receive a payment based on one twelfth of their annual earnings less expenses and tax  each month.

Those who have not filed a self assessment in the past two years will not receive anything.

I don't understand that; I was registered with HMRC as self employed for many years, and had/have a ten digit UTR number, and filed SA tax returns each year. The only difference between then and now, is that I now have an accountant. 🤔

[Vince Green]

11 minutes ago, Scully said:

I don't understand that; I was registered with HMRC as self employed for many years, and had/have a ten digit UTR number, and filed SA tax returns each year. The only difference between then and now, is that I now have an accountant. 🤔

Your accountant files your SA tax return for you now

[Scully]

58 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Your accountant files your SA tax return for you now

I still don’t see the difference...am I missing something? 

[wishy735]

Have held off until now but *****y angry. Self employed, wife in receipt of a small private pension and myself in receipt of a small millitary pension. Self employment earnings (aprox £7k) tops up our pensions so we can get by nicely but not extravagantly. A few years before we get state pension. Because our pensions account for more than 50% of our household income, we get **** all. However if you drawing a pension and still working on PAYE you get 80% of your wage if you can't work. So go on tell me that the self employed have it easy. I do sometimes wonder if my millitary service is appreciated but then I calm down and know that the vast majority do. Sorry for the rant but just had to get it off my chest. Take care everyone.

[archi]

I dont think it is total household income though

i believe your self employed earningS must be more than 50% of your total personal earnings.

So hopefully you should be due the claim payout

Edited March 28, 2020 by archi

[wishy735]

2 minutes ago, archi said:

I do think it is total household income

i believe your self employed earningS must be more than 50% of your total personal earnings.

So hopefully you should be due the claim payout

I know, because our pensions are just over 50% of our income, that means self employed earnings are less than 50%. That is why we can't get any help.

[Newbie to this]

40 minutes ago, wishy735 said:

Have held off until now but *****y angry. Self employed, wife in receipt of a small private pension and myself in receipt of a small millitary pension. Self employment earnings (aprox £7k) tops up our pensions so we can get by nicely but not extravagantly. A few years before we get state pension. Because our pensions account for more than 50% of our household income, we get **** all. However if you drawing a pension and still working on PAYE you get 80% of your wage if you can't work. So go on tell me that the self employed have it easy. I do sometimes wonder if my millitary service is appreciated but then I calm down and know that the vast majority do. Sorry for the rant but just had to get it off my chest. Take care everyone.

I for one appreciate yours and all of our services personnel service.

Thank you.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Newbie to this

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

I still don’t see the difference...am I missing something? 

I think you are, whats your query?

[Scully]

Just now, Vince Green said:

I think you are, whats your query?

I don’t understand why you made the distinction between one who is registered as self employed with HMRC with a UTR number, and someone who fills out a SA form, as they are also registered with HMRC and have a UTR. I’m not being difficult, I just can’t see what the difference is between the two  ( apart from the accountant ) which caused you to make a distinction between them. 

[wishy735]

29 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

I for one appreciate yours and all of our services personnel service.

Thank you.

Thank you, I just needed to vent.

[Vince Green]

There is a question over people on zero hours contracts. Their employer will be subsidised 80% of their gross wages bill by the chancellor.

However the contract with their so called employees means people on zero hours contracts are not employees at all, they are external out workers. So there is no obligation for the company to pass the payment on.

When all this mess is over, zero hours contracts are going to have to go

[Vince Green]

7 minutes ago, Scully said:

I don’t understand why you made the distinction between one who is registered as self employed with HMRC with a UTR number, and someone who fills out a SA form, as they are also registered with HMRC and have a UTR. I’m not being difficult, I just can’t see what the difference is between the two  ( apart from the accountant ) which caused you to make a distinction between them. 

People can receive income from many sources and still have to fill out self assesments every year. My 88 year old mother has to because she receives three separate pensions but she is not classed as self employed.

 

[Scully]

Okeydokey. Cheers. 👍

[grrclark]

52 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

When all this mess is over, zero hours contracts are going to have to go

Zero hours contracts have a place and work very well for some, although i agree in a large number of cases they can be unfavourable to the contracted worker.

I don't think that we can or should make changes to a system that operates as normal as a consequence of what happens during the most exceptional times.

[manthing]

So with the self employed, the gov help is on profit as I understand it. Are wages taken before profit is calculated, so if someone takes all the money out of their self employed business the business made no profit, or are the wages taken as profit. 

I'm screwed either way as I'm a Ltd company. And for those saying its a money maker my car is on a 04 plate, my van is on a 09 plate and I haven't had a "proper" holiday in 10 years. This year I finally managed to clear a £2k overdraft in January when everyone else was using theirs, and we thought that this year might just be the turning point. 

Its just going to be ****

[Scully]

8 minutes ago, manthing said:

So with the self employed, the gov help is on profit as I understand it. Are wages taken before profit is calculated, so if someone takes all the money out of their self employed business the business made no profit, or are the wages taken as profit. 

I'm screwed either way as I'm a Ltd company. And for those saying its a money maker my car is on a 04 plate, my van is on a 09 plate and I haven't had a "proper" holiday in 10 years. This year I finally managed to clear a £2k overdraft in January when everyone else was using theirs, and we thought that this year might just be the turning point. 

Its just going to be ****

😀 Ha! Welcome to my world! I haven’t drawn a wage since I stopped subbing four years ago!  I have been informed by my accountant that I am due to receive 886.31 per month, or just over 220.00 per week. That’s in June, and even that isn’t a definite, as she noted ‘ ....this is very new legislation so we are unsure as to whether it will definitely go ahead....’ 🙂

My vehicle is a ‘10 plate and my OH’s an ‘06. I was never in it ( self employment ) for the money, but rather the freedom and flexibility it gives me. I’ll be continuing to work for as long as I can get supplies, and clients are willing to have me. 👍

[Jim Neal]

1 hour ago, manthing said:

So with the self employed, the gov help is on profit as I understand it. Are wages taken before profit is calculated, so if someone takes all the money out of their self employed business the business made no profit, or are the wages taken as profit. 

I'm screwed either way as I'm a Ltd company. And for those saying its a money maker my car is on a 04 plate, my van is on a 09 plate and I haven't had a "proper" holiday in 10 years. This year I finally managed to clear a £2k overdraft in January when everyone else was using theirs, and we thought that this year might just be the turning point. 

Its just going to be ****

Are you a sole trader or set up as Ltd?  Sole trader is easy: your last 3 ('19, '18 & '17) tax years declared profits (taken from the form SA302) will be averaged and you'll receive 80% of that.  If you're Ltd you might be screwed if you've gone down the more tax-efficient road of taking minimal salary balanced by more dividend.

What line of business are you in?

[manthing]

8 hours ago, Scully said:

😀 Ha! Welcome to my world! I haven’t drawn a wage since I stopped subbing four years ago!  I have been informed by my accountant that I am due to receive 886.31 per month, or just over 220.00 per week. That’s in June, and even that isn’t a definite, as she noted ‘ ....this is very new legislation so we are unsure as to whether it will definitely go ahead....’ 🙂

My vehicle is a ‘10 plate and my OH’s an ‘06. I was never in it ( self employment ) for the money, but rather the freedom and flexibility it gives me. I’ll be continuing to work for as long as I can get supplies, and clients are willing to have me. 👍

Great init. Take the risks to set up a business. A business those now getting there take home pay will need for all the nice things they want. I bet we still get clobbered for higher tax to level the burden or whatever the phrase was. 

[manthing]

6 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

Are you a sole trader or set up as Ltd?  Sole trader is easy: your last 3 ('19, '18 & '17) tax years declared profits (taken from the form SA302) will be averaged and you'll receive 80% of that.  If you're Ltd you might be screwed if you've gone down the more tax-efficient road of taking minimal salary balanced by more dividend.

What line of business are you in?

That why I asked the first question. Is profit after wages for self employed. Profit should be what's left in the bank after wages as wages are a cost to the business. 

I'm Ltd and I fit kitchens and bathrooms, Wickes have put a stop to new jobs starting and I can't even finish my current job as we had to leave them "safe and hygienic to use" and walk away. I'd almost finished one and the next was already delivered and was easy to close myself in. 

Every year thears another bill to pay, the latest being the list to go on that tells anyone that can be bothered to look that you keep their data safe. 

[CharlieT]

10 hours ago, manthing said:

That why I asked the first question. Is profit after wages for self employed. Profit should be what's left in the bank after wages as wages are a cost to the business. 

I'm Ltd and I fit kitchens and bathrooms, Wickes have put a stop to new jobs starting and I can't even finish my current job as we had to leave them "safe and hygienic to use" and walk away. I'd almost finished one and the next was already delivered and was easy to close myself in. 

Every year thears another bill to pay, the latest being the list to go on that tells anyone that can be bothered to look that you keep their data safe. 

As you work for a limited company, be it yours, you will not qualify for the self employed bailout payment as you are not classed as self employed.

[Vince Green]

On 28/03/2020 at 21:42, grrclark said:

Zero hours contracts have a place and work very well for some, although i agree in a large number of cases they can be unfavourable to the contracted worker.

I don't think that we can or should make changes to a system that operates as normal as a consequence of what happens during the most exceptional times.

In London vast swathes of workers in retail, warehousing. services, restaurants and pubs etc are on zero hours contracts and not through their choice. Its the new normal. It has turned the employment clock back 150 years. No rights, no holiday pay, no pension rights, no employment protection. You will never be able to get a mortgage and increasingly will never be able to pass the checks to rent accommodation.

Its a licence for the employers to exploit the vunerable, many of whom don't even get minimum wage because of loopholes. Its modern day slavery.

And it falls on the taxpayer to top up the shortfall by means of tax credits

 

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 minute ago, Vince Green said:

In London vast swathes of workers in retail, warehousing. services, restaurants and pubs etc are on zero hours contracts and not through their choice. Its the new normal. It has turned the employment clock back 150 years. No rights, no holiday pay, no pension rights, no employment protection. You will never be able to get a mortgage and increasingly will never be able to pass the checks to rent accommodation.

Its a licence for the employers to exploit the vunerable, many of whom don't even get minimum wage because of loopholes. Its modern day slavery.

And it falls on the taxpayer to top up the shortfall by means of tax credits

 

hello, good post Vince, it like the depression years when workers stood in a line so the gang master picked his quota for the days work,  it should be outlawed, 

[12gauge82]

7 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, good post Vince, it like the depression years when workers stood in a line so the gang master picked his quota for the days work,  it should be outlawed, 

Totally agree, abhorrent practice

[Jim Neal]

18 hours ago, manthing said:

That why I asked the first question. Is profit after wages for self employed. Profit should be what's left in the bank after wages as wages are a cost to the business. 

I'm Ltd and I fit kitchens and bathrooms, Wickes have put a stop to new jobs starting and I can't even finish my current job as we had to leave them "safe and hygienic to use" and walk away. I'd almost finished one and the next was already delivered and was easy to close myself in. 

Every year thears another bill to pay, the latest being the list to go on that tells anyone that can be bothered to look that you keep their data safe. 

I'm not that clued up on the status with Ltd, but I think I have a rough grasp of it... you need to speak to your accountant to get a proper answer.  However what I think most people in your position do is furlough yourself and take the 80% - you're an "employee" of your business, as a director, so the same rules apply as to any other "employed" person.  The 80% is calculated from your tax form stating your salary (P60 I think?)

You'll only come a cropper if you pay a low salary but take a high dividend which is the more tax-efficient way when you're Ltd.

Best of luck mate

Edited March 30, 2020 by Jim Neal