Some shocking stats

[mudpatten]

I`m less worried than many because I don`t watch, or read, the main stream media. Especially the BBC.

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I really don't get why we continue to put Germans on a pedestal and feed their tendency to assume a position of superiority over the rest of us. History tells us that's a bad move.

I know we shouldn't resort to national stereotyping but the Germans really and truly like their stereotype. They have a huge sense of civic awareness and responsibility. I can give you an example, when it snows EVERYBODY comes out and clears the roads and the pavements. Nobody tells them to, they just do it.

My grandfather's family came from Germany before the first world war. They settled in Gateshead,  I still have a cousin in Dusseldorf that I know about and maybe others that I don't.

In many ways they are very single minded, they are focused in a way that other nations are not and that is both their strength and their weakness.   

[AVB]

40 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I know we shouldn't resort to national stereotyping but the Germans really and truly like their stereotype. They have a huge sense of civic awareness and responsibility. I can give you an example, when it snows EVERYBODY comes out and clears the roads and the pavements. Nobody tells them to, they just do it.

My grandfather's family came from Germany before the first world war. They settled in Gateshead,  I still have a cousin in Dusseldorf that I know about and maybe others that I don't.

In many ways they are very single minded, they are focused in a way that other nations are not and that is both their strength and their weakness.   

The Germans I know, and I have worked with, and for,  German companies, have a healthy mistrust of Politicians though. Also there have been a number of riots against their ‘lockdown’. 
 

As was previously stated we do tend to put them on a pedestal probably for no other reason than they make decent cars.  

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

I know we shouldn't resort to national stereotyping but the Germans really and truly like their stereotype. They have a huge sense of civic awareness and responsibility. I can give you an example, when it snows EVERYBODY comes out and clears the roads and the pavements. Nobody tells them to, they just do it.

My grandfather's family came from Germany before the first world war. They settled in Gateshead,  I still have a cousin in Dusseldorf that I know about and maybe others that I don't.

In many ways they are very single minded, they are focused in a way that other nations are not and that is both their strength and their weakness.   

Appreciate the insight and I'd tend to agree although I'm not sure the snow clearing analogy is borne from civic duty or the fact that if one person does it then the others feel compelled too - same outcome either way I guess.

I believe they also have an established tradition of complying due to fear of being snitched by their neighbours in matters enforceable by law.

My father always said that Germans were binary, either genuinely the nicest or pretty much the worst type of person you can meet and whilst that's highly stereotypical I too have found that to more or less play out in my professional dealings with them. Socially I know one, a partisan baker who is genuinely an incredible human being, nothing to do with the fact he left Germany as a child, I'm sure 🙂 

I have also found they have quite a regional influence too - the northern lot are much more like us and the Flemish / Dutch.

[Raja Clavata]

41 minutes ago, AVB said:

As was previously stated we do tend to put them on a pedestal probably for no other reason than they make decent cars.  

I believe the car situation is borne out of the fact they are world leading in manufacturing, and traditionally Automotive OEMs are manufacturing companies. That is changing and whilst the Germans may continue to build the best cars in the future, in the traditional sense at least, they are going to need someone from elsewhere to develop the software for those cars else their prominence will wain. They really are not very good at embedded software, possibly because it's much less like a manufacturing process and combines both art and science. 

Anyway we digress but in summary they aren't as good at everything as they would happily have the majority of us believe.

[REDINGTON]

4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I really don't get why we continue to put Germans on a pedestal and feed their tendency to assume a position of superiority over the rest of us. History tells us that's a bad move.

 

[Raja Clavata]

Easy now, although earlier today I was invited to a meeting on Friday by a German colleague, I could have perhaps been slightly more diplomatic in pointing out the rest of Europe is having a day off 😜 

Ironically it's a meeting to reflect on lessons learnt from a consortia project that they also failed to win...

[Vince Green]

21 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Appreciate the insight and I'd tend to agree although I'm not sure the snow clearing analogy is borne from civic duty or the fact that if one person does it then the others feel compelled too - same outcome either way I guess.

I believe they also have an established tradition of complying due to fear of being snitched by their neighbours in matters enforceable by law.

My father always said that Germans were binary, either genuinely the nicest or pretty much the worst type of person you can meet and whilst that's highly stereotypical I too have found that to more or less play out in my professional dealings with them. Socially I know one, a partisan baker who is genuinely an incredible human being, nothing to do with the fact he left Germany as a child, I'm sure 🙂 

I have also found they have quite a regional influence too - the northern lot are much more like us and the Flemish / Dutch.

Hitler and the Nazis managed to harness the German mindset very effectively. he said thousands of years of living in a land where the summers were good and the land fertile but the winters were long and harsh had bred a people who had to be both strong and industrious to survive. They had to prepare their crops and animal feed in the summer, store their food and their feed and fuel for the winter and build strong houses.

Only the best would survive, thousands of harsh winters had killed off the weak and the feckless leaving, by natural selection, the master race. This was Hitler's basic assertion.

Although they distance themselves from the Nazi ideology most Germans (I believe) still subscribe to the master race concept in some way or another.

 

[AVB]

15 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Easy now, although earlier today I was invited to a meeting on Friday by a German colleague, I could have perhaps been slightly more diplomatic in pointing out the rest of Europe is having a day off 😜 

Ironically it's a meeting to reflect on lessons learnt from a consortia project that they also failed to win...

One of the most challenging corporate transactions I worked on was a proposed merger of a Dutch and a German Bank. You had the Germans on one side of the table, all identical dressed in dark blue suits, matching ties etc. On the opposite side of the table were the Dutch wearing a eclectic mix of colours and styles. The Dutch hated the Germans as they “stole their bikes” and the Germans had a contempt for the Dutch because they were not German. Then at the top table were a few Brits (including me) and an American trying to keep the show on the road and earn our fees. 

It broke down after a serious of fractious meetings. 

[lancer425]

2 hours ago, mudpatten said:

I`m less worried than many because I don`t watch, or read, the main stream media. Especially the BBC.

I have to admit i have grown very tired of the media , and its handling of almost every aspect of this virus.  I never had much respect for the press historically, but now i have even less if that is ever possible.

[blackbird]

10 hours ago, lancer425 said:

I have to admit i have grown very tired of the media , and its handling of almost every aspect of this virus.  I never had much respect for the press historically, but now i have even less if that is ever possible.

No doubt they went digging on national hero Tom Moore to see if they could bring him down that’s the media for you, I could not agree with you more Lancer425.

Edited May 7, 2020 by blackbird

[lancer425]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

No doubt they went digging on national hero Tom Moor to see if they could bring him down that’s the media for you.

Note my use of the word "ALMOST" . Thank you!.

[Penelope]

16 hours ago, Mungler said:

 

Adjusted for population. Strange how the media focus on making us believe the absolute worst of everything.

French don’t record deaths at home, Spanish don’t record deaths at all properly anywhere / anyhow, Italians don’t record deaths in care homes and the Germans don’t record the deaths they don’t want to. So why are our media intent on trying to measure us against this lot to paint a failure on the part of the UK?

Answers on a post card.

Because they are all sensation seeking boat mooring devices. That has been my opinion formed throughout this event.

[Mungler]

So, it’s increasingly looking like Professor Pants Down’s data modelling is seriously flawed and there are calls for the lockdown to immediately end.

There’s an interesting article in the Spectator and which follows what Peter Hitchens has been saying all along.

In the meantime, here’s an excellent Danish blood donor study, n ~9500, 17-69 years old, estimated covid19 IFR for those <70 to be 0.08% (ie 82 per 100,000) https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20075291v1

I’m no expert but I’d hazard a guess that you don’t shut down the whole of UK Plc for a disease with a 0.08% mortality rate.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Mungler

[JohnfromUK]

19 minutes ago, Mungler said:

I’m no expert but I’d hazard a guess that you don’t shut down the whole of UK Plc for a disease with a 0.08% mortality rate.

Different studies have different results on mortality https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8293489/Scientists-estimate-coronavirus-kills-0-75-patients.html

[Mungler]

The Danish model is 0-70 age range and which supports everyone over 65 locking down and everyone else going back to work.

It’s brutal but the medical reality is that if you are over 70 you’re at a greater risk of everything and anything.

Indeed, it’s back to if you’re 90 years old and Covid gets you, that ought to be considered a natural end of life event. It’s not something that should be measured alongside a 30 year old contracting Covid and dying.

Statistically, it makes no sense to measure deaths in the over 70’s category with deaths in the under 70 category for the reasons above.

The message from the Denmark study is that if you are 69 years or younger and you get Covid, then you have an 82 in 100,000 chance of dying.

One thing that brought the ‘balance in everything’ home to me was the news that an old girlfriend of mine (1 year younger than me) was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer just before the lockdown and hasn’t been able to access any cancer treatment because of the lockdown. Even with access to medical treatment she had only a 2% chance of surviving and now......

Back to the balance - we have to balance other issues, other problems, other demands on the NHS and of course the economy. Currently I don’t think the balance is right.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Mungler

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, Mungler said:

It’s brutal but the medical reality is that if you are over 70 you’re at a greater risk of everything and anything.

I don't disagree, but the allegation that we are sending infected people back into care homes (if it is true) is worrying https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8302039/Hospitals-probed-sending-elderly-care-homes-despite-KNOWING-coronavirus.html

[scimitar]

On 06/05/2020 at 20:24, Vince Green said:

I know we shouldn't resort to national stereotyping but the Germans really and truly like their stereotype. They have a huge sense of civic awareness and responsibility. I can give you an example, when it snows EVERYBODY comes out and clears the roads and the pavements. Nobody tells them to, they just do it.

They do it because they have to. The Germans have a Law/Rule called street cleaning statute, it compels property owners to clear snow from the front of their property. If you go on holiday you have to allocate responsibility to someone.

They do however seem to show more responsibility for elderly family members. I seem to recall they had 99 year mortgages for buying family homes and I often saw 3 generations living in the same property.

Edited May 9, 2020 by scimitar

[McSpredder]

15 minutes ago, scimitar said:

The Germans have a Law/Rule called street cleaning statute, it compels property owners to clear snow from the front of their property.

Would a German citizen risk of being sued if another person fell over and claimed that the area had been improperly cleared?  

Here is a legal opinion on the UK situation:  https://www.buckles-law.co.uk/blog/snow-and-ice-liability/

"Private occupiers of houses are not obliged to clear snow or ice from the public highway. If they do and someone is injured, can they be sued? The answer is potentially yes!

If the owner clears snow away in a less than satisfactory manner and leaves ice (which is potentially more dangerous than a covering of snow) then they may be liable to passers-by who can fall and injure themselves. This is because an occupier owes a common law duty of care to others (also called the ‘law of negligence’) and therefore the occupier should not do anything that makes an area unsafe for others."

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

The answer is potentially yes!

Yes, I was 'ticked off' for clearing snow some years ago on the office 'front steps' for that reason.

[scimitar]

12 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

Would a German citizen risk of being sued if another person fell over and claimed that the area had been improperly cleared?  

 

That question I can't answer. I just remember from my time in Germany having to clear the snow from the paths around the barracks and the NAAFI shop, then putting down loads of grit.

Edited May 9, 2020 by scimitar

[Lord v]

My one memory of a short collaboration with a German engineering firm was the amount of sick leave they took. Merest hint of a sniffle and they went home. 

I think the average is 15 days leave due to sickness a year or something like that with some 40% of the workforce taking sick leave a year. 

That probably has more to do with controlling the spread of an illness than a Tueton sense of following the rules. 

[bavarianbrit]

Then you would also have to put signs down warning passers by of snow icicles coming off the roof usually this was done for blocks of flats where there was a caretaker (hausmeister) to do this chore. I have worked on and off (much more on) in Germany in the car industry since 1973 now I live here in retirement, I have never met the stereotypical kraut that every film portrays. I have met and worked for lots of office managers/small business owners that would leave you bankrupt if they could though "never trust anyone who works wearing a suit" but co-workers and all others over the years have been very open and polite.

Business is war is a German saying.

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 06/05/2020 at 13:49, REDINGTON said:

certain elements of the human race would benefit from a "cull"  opinions differ as to which particular parts, this virus and those before and after it has no preference. 

but as with almost everything else,mankind appears to contribute as much as possible in the spreading of it to all corners of the planet.

 

hello, so what element of the human race would you consider suitable for a cull ?

[REDINGTON]

15 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, so what element of the human race would you consider suitable for a cull ?

as  stated, "opinions differ as to which particular parts"

why the singular  interest in mine.?

you fail to state your view on the subject, do you have your own selection?

or are you happy to include good and bad,, in the way the current pandemic is doing.