Getting back to work

[AVB]

Pleased with the number of emails I have received from companies saying that they are now back at work. Which begs the question why were they closed down for so long in the first place? Some have gone into great detail explaining what they have done to protect staff and customers, none of which would have taken more than a day to complete. 

[Penelope]

21 minutes ago, AVB said:

Pleased with the number of emails I have received from companies saying that they are now back at work. Which begs the question why were they closed down for so long in the first place? Some have gone into great detail explaining what they have done to protect staff and customers, none of which would have taken more than a day to complete. 

I work for a property managing agents and we have sent out a questionnaire to all of the office occupiers asking what their return plans are; many are saying not until July and few, September. This spreads across the insurance, finance, restaurant retail chain (HQ), Cosmetic retail (HQ), publishing, design, IT and advertising sectors.

[millrace]

Dear employee,,,

Would you like to 

A, come back to work we would like to re-open

Or

B, hows about we all sit about till October enjoy the summer have a rest relax,if your happy  on 80% I've had my 10/25 k grant so I'm ok,,

thanks the boss...

Ummm decisions decisions......

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, millrace said:

Dear employee,,,

Would you like to 

A, come back to work we would like to re-open

Or

B, hows about we all sit about till October enjoy the summer have a rest relax,if your happy  on 80% I've had my 10/25 k grant so I'm ok,,

thanks the boss...

Ummm decisions decisions......

Or

C, Dear Teachers, shall we stay off on 100% pay till they find a vaccine which might take years.

Edited May 15, 2020 by blackbird

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, millrace said:

Dear employee,,,

Would you like to 

A, come back to work we would like to re-open

Or

B, hows about we all sit about till October enjoy the summer have a rest relax,if your happy  on 80% I've had my 10/25 k grant so I'm ok,,

thanks the boss...

Ummm decisions decisions......

Hmmm, your on 80% and loving it,  but its going to drop over the next few months, and when there is only half a business to come back too all those who said no I'll stay in the garden will be remembered and top of the unofficial list. 

5 hours ago, AVB said:

Pleased with the number of emails I have received from companies saying that they are now back at work. Which begs the question why were they closed down for so long in the first place? Some have gone into great detail explaining what they have done to protect staff and customers, none of which would have taken more than a day to complete. 

I don't picture you working for small companies?

Took my place two weeks to sort things out, keeping health and safety happy and the unions, then taping lots of areas, think we had 3 lots of booklets to read through and phone calls to make sure we were happy with what was happening, this was from day one of lockdown.

[clangerman]

looks pretty much business as normal round here the advice is being ignored by no end of people so they might as well get on with trading 

[AVB]

8 minutes ago, Mice! said:

 

I don't picture you working for small companies?

Took my place two weeks to sort things out, keeping health and safety happy and the unions, then taping lots of areas, think we had 3 lots of booklets to read through and phone calls to make sure we were happy with what was happening, this was from day one of lockdown.

They were from a variety of companies that I use rather than do work for. Take Audi for example who stated that this is what they have done in order to open their service centres. 
 

• Designated and timed appointments, as well as collection periods to minimise queues and maintain social distancing
• COVID-19 safety signage to direct you safely through all customer areas
• Increased levels of cleaning and sanitising products for your use
• Perspex screens on all service desks for added safety
• The use of plastic bags to minimise any unnecessary handling of keys
• Increased levels of vehicle cleaning to ensure that all touch points within have been cleaned thoroughly prior to collection

how long would it have taken them to do that. A couple of days? A week at a push?  

[Mice!]

38 minutes ago, AVB said:

week at a push?  

Since when did large companies do anything quickly? I'll bet not all staff are in unless this is a dealership and not a manufacturing plant?

They weren't essential so closed, and have now reopened so it wasn't really a week?

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, Mice! said:

Since when did large companies do anything quickly? I'll bet not all staff are in unless this is a dealership and not a manufacturing plant?

They weren't essential so closed, and have now reopened so it wasn't really a week?

Define large? Until last year the organisation that pay me beer tokens were growing modestly through organic growth and strategic acquisitions, about 45,000 employees. Generally accepted that we over-stretched on the last acquisition and ended up a bit prone to a takeover. Fortunately it resulted in a "friendly" one, rather than aggressive, and as of 1st April we became part of a bigger entity - 264,000 employees globally.

Can you imagine the magnitude of the issues in trying to manage a largely service based organisation through this pandemic.

To compound matters, the part of the business I work in is due to spin out as a Product Business 1st July. I was acting as interim CEO pending recruitment of an external bod to fill the role, COVID put pay to that so they made my interim position permanent about three weeks into the UK lockdown.

I can't begin to describe the chaos that has ensued for me since, getting it under control now and just about south of 100 hour working weeks. Whilst the executives at board level are clearly run ragged with COVID and acquisition / integration issues, I'm convinced there are a ton of people "around" me using it as an excuse to kick back, get a tan etc. etc. 

So, if my posts seem a little rushed at times, that's because they are...

[millrace]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Hmmm, your on 80% and loving it,  but its going to drop over the next few months, and when there is only half a business to come back too all those who said no I'll stay in the garden will be remembered and top of the unofficial list. 

 

No matey....I'm on 0%...shut down         no furlough 

Not self employed

No income but suppliers to pay and absolutely no goverment grants or help!!!

Your just a tad wide of the mark!...

[Cawdor118]

53 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Define large? Until last year the organisation that pay me beer tokens were growing modestly through organic growth and strategic acquisitions, about 45,000 employees. Generally accepted that we over-stretched on the last acquisition and ended up a bit prone to a takeover. Fortunately it resulted in a "friendly" one, rather than aggressive, and as of 1st April we became part of a bigger entity - 264,000 employees globally.

Can you imagine the magnitude of the issues in trying to manage a largely service based organisation through this pandemic.

To compound matters, the part of the business I work in is due to spin out as a Product Business 1st July. I was acting as interim CEO pending recruitment of an external bod to fill the role, COVID put pay to that so they made my interim position permanent about three weeks into the UK lockdown.

I can't begin to describe the chaos that has ensued for me since, getting it under control now and just about south of 100 hour working weeks. Whilst the executives at board level are clearly run ragged with COVID and acquisition / integration issues, I'm convinced there are a ton of people "around" me using it as an excuse to kick back, get a tan etc. etc. 

So, if my posts seem a little rushed at times, that's because they are...

I agree with you 100%. People think the higher you get the easier it gets... They maintain that because they have never been there. Congratulations on the job, I'm sure the business have awarded you the position on your merit and not because of the situation. 

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, millrace said:

No matey....I'm on 0%...shut down         no furlough 

Not self employed

No income but suppliers to pay and absolutely no goverment grants or help!!!

Your just a tad wide of the mark!...

I meant the furloughed workers in general that you referred to sat at home.

I hope your situation improves. 

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Define large

Not that big where I am, but bigger than most.

The more people the harder things must be trying to get people back into work in a safe manner, when your talking thousands then there's going to be an awful lot of head scratching going on.

Makes me happy to be on the shop floor.

[Raja Clavata]

9 hours ago, Cawdor118 said:

I agree with you 100%. People think the higher you get the easier it gets... They maintain that because they have never been there. Congratulations on the job, I'm sure the business have awarded you the position on your merit and not because of the situation. 

Thanks, in truth a bit of both I suspect but in hindsight the right decision for the business especially given the current situation.

What my recent experiences have taught me is that the people at the very top are there for a reason, sure they may have flaws just like everyone but generally they are not the problem.

The problem is certain people just below them who have in some cases over-achieved in getting there in the first place, others who have been there so long that they do not really fit with the way the business has evolved (let's call them old school) plus a mix who are on their way to the top.

The latter aren't a problem as they are too busy focused on getting the job done (and progressing their career in the process).

When you are positioned below this level, you often see direction coming from the top that appears bonkers, most of the time it's because the first two types of those I've described above you have distorted the data / overall picture so by the time it gets to the top it's distorted. Simple case of **** in **** out (SISO).

I'm still in the honeymoon period with the people at the top in my business but they appear to appreciate my straightforward and direct approach, I suspect they have also noticed how uncomfortable it makes some of those around me feel 😉

[Mice!]

54 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

The problem is certain people just below them who have in some cases over-achieved in getting there in the first place, others who have been there so long that they do not really fit with the way the business has evolved (let's call them old school) plus a mix who are on their way to the top.

Are yes middle management and dinosaurs.

55 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I'm still in the honeymoon period with the people at the top in my business but they appear to appreciate my straightforward and direct approach, I suspect they have also noticed how uncomfortable it makes some of those around me feel 😉

Can't beat watching people squirm when you tell it how it is and your right 😁

[Bumble]

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

 

With regards to your facile ‘Option C’, that’s not what teachers are asking for at all. The ‘5 Tests’ put forward by the NEU don’t include a mention of a vaccine, but are wholly sensible to keep staff & students safe. I love my job & can’t wait to get back into the classroom (it’s boring the hell out of me doing it all online), but I’m not prepared to put myself & my family at unnecessary risk. 

The ‘5 Tests’ are: 

Test 1 : Much lower numbers of Covid-19 cases

The new case count must be much lower than it is now, with a sustained downward trend and confidence that new cases are known and counted promptly. And the Government must have extensive arrangements for testing and contact tracing to keep it that way.
 

Test 2 : A national plan for social distancing

The Government must have a national plan including parameters for both appropriate physical distancing and levels of social mixing in schools, as well as for appropriate PPE, which will be locally negotiated at school-by-school and local authority level.
 

Test 3 : Testing, testing, testing!

Comprehensive access to regular testing for children and staff to ensure our schools and colleges don’t become hot spots for Covid-19.
 

Test 4 : Whole school strategy

Protocols to be put in place to test a whole school or college when a case occurs and for isolation to be strictly followed.
 

Test 5 : Protection for the vulnerable

Vulnerable staff, and staff who live with vulnerable people, must work from home, fulfilling their professional duties to the extent that is possible. Plans must be specifically address the protection of vulnerable parents, grandparents and carers.

[AVB]

3 minutes ago, Bumble said:

With regards to your facile ‘Option C’, that’s not what teachers are asking for at all. The ‘5 Tests’ put forward by the NEU don’t include a mention of a vaccine, but are wholly sensible to keep staff & students safe. I love my job & can’t wait to get back into the classroom (it’s boring the hell out of me doing it all online), but I’m not prepared to put myself & my family at unnecessary risk. 

The ‘5 Tests’ are: 

Test 1 : Much lower numbers of Covid-19 cases

The new case count must be much lower than it is now, with a sustained downward trend and confidence that new cases are known and counted promptly. And the Government must have extensive arrangements for testing and contact tracing to keep it that way.
 

Test 2 : A national plan for social distancing

The Government must have a national plan including parameters for both appropriate physical distancing and levels of social mixing in schools, as well as for appropriate PPE, which will be locally negotiated at school-by-school and local authority level.
 

Test 3 : Testing, testing, testing!

Comprehensive access to regular testing for children and staff to ensure our schools and colleges don’t become hot spots for Covid-19.
 

Test 4 : Whole school strategy

Protocols to be put in place to test a whole school or college when a case occurs and for isolation to be strictly followed.
 

Test 5 : Protection for the vulnerable

Vulnerable staff, and staff who live with vulnerable people, must work from home, fulfilling their professional duties to the extent that is possible. Plans must be specifically address the protection of vulnerable parents, grandparents and carers.

Which is all well and good but probably impractical and why teachers and not any other ‘industry’? 
 

Are you under sixty and no underlying health conditions? If so then minimal risk to you (more dangerous travelling to school). 

[Bumble]

1 minute ago, AVB said:

Which is all well and good but probably impractical and why teachers and not any other ‘industry’? 
 

Are you under sixty and no underlying health conditions? If so then minimal risk to you (more dangerous travelling to school). 

How many other industries require you to be in a small room with up to 30 other people (most of whom possess dubious hygiene skills)? 
 

I’m not in the high-risk category but I’d say a good 30% of my colleagues are. Operating school at full capacity without them would be an impossibility. 

[Old farrier]

11 minutes ago, Bumble said:

With regards to your facile ‘Option C’, that’s not what teachers are asking for at all. The ‘5 Tests’ put forward by the NEU don’t include a mention of a vaccine, but are wholly sensible to keep staff & students safe. I love my job & can’t wait to get back into the classroom (it’s boring the hell out of me doing it all online), but I’m not prepared to put myself & my family at unnecessary risk. 

The ‘5 Tests’ are: 

Test 1 : Much lower numbers of Covid-19 cases

The new case count must be much lower than it is now, with a sustained downward trend and confidence that new cases are known and counted promptly. And the Government must have extensive arrangements for testing and contact tracing to keep it that way.
 

Test 2 : A national plan for social distancing

The Government must have a national plan including parameters for both appropriate physical distancing and levels of social mixing in schools, as well as for appropriate PPE, which will be locally negotiated at school-by-school and local authority level.
 

Test 3 : Testing, testing, testing!

Comprehensive access to regular testing for children and staff to ensure our schools and colleges don’t become hot spots for Covid-19.
 

Test 4 : Whole school strategy

Protocols to be put in place to test a whole school or college when a case occurs and for isolation to be strictly followed.
 

Test 5 : Protection for the vulnerable

Vulnerable staff, and staff who live with vulnerable people, must work from home, fulfilling their professional duties to the extent that is possible. Plans must be specifically address the protection of vulnerable parents, grandparents and carers.

Get together and work out a plan 

maybe halving the kids and go in on alternate days 

keep kids in groups and one classroom for that group just swapping teachers for the different subjects 

Teaching them personally hygiene could be lesson one 

there’s plenty of different jobs going on that have the same problem with the equal risks 

or even kids in one day a week and give them a weeks project 

teacher's are the brain training for the country

its time for you to step up to the mark and do it 

tin hat on 

[Bumble]

7 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Get together and work out a plan 

maybe halving the kids and go in on alternate days 

keep kids in groups and one classroom for that group just swapping teachers for the different subjects 

Teaching them personally hygiene could be lesson one 

there’s plenty of different jobs going on that have the same problem with the equal risks 

or even kids in one day a week and give them a weeks project 

teacher's are the brain training for the country

its time for you to step up to the mark and do it 

tin hat on 

‘Step up to the mark’ - what mark is that then? The one where put ourselves & our families at risk unnecessarily? No thanks. 
 

There’s endless work going on to try and devise in-school strategies, but that can’t work until the gov’t gets on board. Demanding that we go back in and ‘do our duty’ or whatever tosh the ed sec comes out with this week won’t wash. 

[Old farrier]

7 minutes ago, Bumble said:

‘Step up to the mark’ - what mark is that then? The one where put ourselves & our families at risk unnecessarily? No thanks. 
 

There’s endless work going on to try and devise in-school strategies, but that can’t work until the gov’t gets on board. Demanding that we go back in and ‘do our duty’ or whatever tosh the ed sec comes out with this week won’t wash. 

There’s plenty out there doing it (why) because there not on full money 

get a grip and sort your workplace out

maybe you don’t think a bus driver is putting themselves at risk or a postman or a shop assistant unnecessarily 

where would we be if everyone said no thanks 

maybe the hundreds or families and kids that are on the beach (it’s rammed) don’t think they can catch it ..... move the chairs outside if you’re not happy inside the classroom social distancing is easier outside 

I admit I don’t know the answer but I do know that unless the kids are going back to school the country can’t get on it’s way too nearly normal 

put forward ideas for a solution to the problem 
 

note this isn’t a personal go at you or teachers 

it’s a problem that needs sorting 

[henry d]

And how do you do that with children with multiple and complex special educational needs?

Genuinely, because it is not working at my wife's work for the past six weeks or so.

[Jaymo]

36 minutes ago, Bumble said:

How many other industries require you to be in a small room with up to 30 other people (most of whom possess dubious hygiene skills)? 
 

Many, I work in an enclosed metal tube with over 100 people of unknown origin ( some with very dubious hygiene skills).

Think Police having ‘undesirables’ in the back of their car 

Our own NHS workers who are exposed to a greater extent than Teachers in a classroom.

But I don’t hear them saying “ Protect us or we’re not working “

When Schools reopen it means most likely that we will be allowed the so called ‘bubble’ of friends/family- so my children could carry it to your children regardless of being in a classroom.

Vulnerable, well they are also vulnerable to seasonal flu or good ole pneumonia non corvid, maybe MRSA or any number of nasties that are still with us!

Should they be excused for the rest of those working lives? 
God I’m glad the Unions aren’t responsible for the Defence of the Country.....

[Mice!]

The plan I've heard is small numbers 15, with 2 adults,  they stay together all the time through the day.

But to get 3 years worth of kids into school its going to take the whole staff and school to accommodate the plan, it's far from a great plan at the moment. 

How they plan on getting all primary in for a month before summer I've no idea.

[Jaymo]

Henry- there isn’t a magical safety blanket, at what point do we stop/start.

I thank your wife for continuing with her support of those with Special needs for which ‘routine’ and continuity is required.

Deal with local outbreaks as and when they occur, not a blanket refusal to return to the classrooms.

These ‘five clauses for return’ are on a parallel to Labours acceptance tests of Brexit, in that they were unachievable. 

[blackbird]

13 minutes ago, Mice! said:

The plan I've heard is small numbers 15, with 2 adults,  they stay together all the time through the day.

But to get 3 years worth of kids into school its going to take the whole staff and school to accommodate the plan, it's far from a great plan at the moment. 

How they plan on getting all primary in for a month before summer I've no idea.

What they could do is first 15 kids start 8am/2pm  then another 15 kids 2pm/8pm rolling on 7day Rota  scrap the 7week summer holidays for 2 weeks it would mean recruiting ex teachers back but can't see a problem there as thousands of ex NHS have returned. It's not ideal but the kids got to catch up 

Edited May 16, 2020 by blackbird