Cummings in the soup?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

First resignation apparently due to the Government's defence of DC!

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/douglas-ross-junior-minister-mp-moray-resigns-dominic-cummings-durham-trip-2864530

Edited May 26, 2020 by TIGHTCHOKE

[amateur]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

First resignation apparently due to the Government's defence of DC!

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/douglas-ross-junior-minister-mp-moray-resigns-dominic-cummings-durham-trip-2864530

Who?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Douglas Ross a Junior Minister from the Scotland Office I believe!

[grrclark]

14 minutes ago, oowee said:

I reckon DC is pretty good at what he does and clearly helping Boris to build a fomidable power block within Govt. It will be interesting to see the view of the Private Members Committee but I guess we won't hear that unless he is to go, and the alignment with Borris in the current crisis will surely carry him through for the moment.

Agreed.  Interesting to see that a junior minister has resigned as a point of principle over this and good for him too.

The issue is much less about DC for me, i am genuinely ambivalent about him, but it is a failure of leadership and integrity by the government and that, while not surprising given our spineless PM, is still a worry.

Matt Hancock will be thrown to the wolves soon, he will be the sacrifical high profile lamb.  Sunak needs to tread carefully too.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

[AVB]

17 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Agreed.  Interesting to see that a junior minister has resigned as a point of principle over this and good for him too.

The issue is much less about DC for me, i am genuinely ambivalent about him, but it is a failure of leadership and integrity by the government and that, while not surprising given our spineless PM, is still a worry.

Matt Hancock will be thrown to the wolves soon, he will be the sacrifical high profile lamb.  Sunak needs to tread carefully too.

Resigning as a junior minister. It’s not that it upset him enough to resign as an MP and call a bye election though. Of course not. It’s just posturing. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, AVB said:

Resigning as a junior minister. It’s not that it upset him enough to resign as an MP and call a bye election though. Of course not. It’s just posturing. 

Virtue signalling!

[AVB]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Virtue signalling!

I bet he claps every Thursday as well. 

[grrclark]

22 minutes ago, AVB said:

Resigning as a junior minister. It’s not that it upset him enough to resign as an MP and call a bye election though. Of course not. It’s just posturing. 

 

19 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Virtue signalling!

Maybe it is simply that and he wasn't enjoying the gig in junior office so it's nothing more than rank opportunism, but at least he was a member of the executive that was prepared to make a statement about principle.

If I can misquote a great line from Ian Blackford just a little, 'The Dominic Cummings affair has caused a shiver to run through the government and it is currently looking for a spine to crawl up'

Edited May 26, 2020 by grrclark

[AVB]

6 minutes ago, grrclark said:

 

Maybe it is simply that and he wasn't enjoying the gig in junior office so it's nothing more than rank opportunism, but at least he was a member of the executive that was prepared to make a statement about principle.

If I can misquote a great line from Ian Blackford just a little, 'The Dominic Cummings affair has caused a shiver to run through the government and it is currently looking for a spine to crawl up'

And he was apparently a ‘remainer’ so would have had it in for Cummings. 

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, grrclark said:

If I can misquote a great line from Ian Blackford just a little, 'The Dominic Cummings affair has caused a shiver to run through the government and it is currently looking for a spine to crawl up'

The one that came to mind for me was based on

30 minutes ago, AVB said:

Interesting to see that a junior minister has resigned as a point of principle over this

I think Sir Humphrey would have remarked; "A minister with principles?  He wouldn't have lasted long."

[TIGHTCHOKE]

28 minutes ago, AVB said:

I bet he claps every Thursday as well. 

I bet he does!

[AVB]

slight change of tack but as a cricketer I found this funny  

 

[Mighty Ruler]

It seems to me that Cummings wanted to dump his wife and kid on his sister and then go back to work, but then became ill himself.

[Rewulf]

59 minutes ago, grrclark said:

I'm actually a little bit surprised at you being so vocal in support of him staying,

No one is more surprised than myself that he is actually staying !
Normally the public image of government is first and foremost, so he SHOULD have been a necessary casualty...
However, he is either VERY important in possibly more ways than we can imagine, his superb strategic thinking is important for the future trials IMHO.
Also , it is highly feasible he could have done his job without being directly employed by the government , so swings and roundabouts....

 

1 hour ago, grrclark said:

If you are content to go along with the "Do as I say and not as I do" example of this will you be content when that applies to things that you really care about? 

Ive got used to it over the years, Cummings has made his name as a revolutionary , someone who will shake the core of how our government works, and that I WILL support.
Obviously , there are powers that dont want this to happen, and this is a classic example of their will.

 

1 hour ago, grrclark said:

The reason the Tories have a significant majority and could progress the Brexit agenda from the endless stalemate it was in was because Boris said "Trust me, we will level up the country, we will do this together, I will deliver what you ask me to" then his key advisor goes and does somethign that portrays the polar opposite.

This IS the point , how does that minor indiscretion by DC translate into a breach of trust in what Boris has promised ?
Yes he could have sacked/resigned him, then employed him in an independent think tank on the same salary, but why should the press dictate who is the bad man, and who is squeaky ?
They can hardly be held up to be without sin themselves, and as I said previously , they are not without bias, and are certainly driven by opposing agendas to the government.
Yes they can hold the government accountable, as can the opposition and other politicians, but who holds the press accountable ?
Do we let them dictate government policy and appointments ?
They are noise, and most of it is not worth listening to.

 

1 hour ago, grrclark said:

As a Tory and Brexiteer I am dismayed, albeit not suprised, at the failure of leadership of BoJo on something that is entirely about perception of the integrity and honesty of the government.  BoJo is an inveterate liar and is seen as someone without integrity, here he had a chance to demonstrate otherwise and spectacularly failed.

It wouldnt have mattered what he did, he could have sacked him, he could have him hung drawn and quartered , it would not satisfy the mob of anti BJ and tory sentiment popular at the moment.
To some, this government can do nothing right , about covid , brexit, the NHS ....anything !
There are far worse possibilities out there instead of this government, it is by no means perfect, but it is the best we can hope for in these times, and luckily the majority still believe so.

[mel b3]

2 hours ago, grrclark said:

I voted for Brexit, i'm a Conservative party member, i am personally completely ambivalent about Dom, i'm ridiculously pragmatic and reasonable about almost everything and I very much think that he should go.

What he did in itslef is relatively trivial, the image that is presents to millions of people in this country is not.  It absolutely re-enforces the stereotype of one rule for the elite Tories and a different one for everyone else.  It will do BoJo and his government lasting harm.

As always , you nailed it perfectly .

The lack of integrity , and lack of respect for the general public , shown by Cummings and johnson,  is beyond belief. Even more unbelievable,  is the amount of relatively intelligent people that are still supporting them both . It's like they don't realise that dc and bj are sticking two fingers up at them to. One things for sure , Boris and his mates are showing us that they'll do exactly as they like , and the good people of the UK can just go play with themselves.

[AVB]

35 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

No one is more surprised than myself that he is actually staying !
Normally the public image of government is first and foremost, so he SHOULD have been a necessary casualty...
However, he is either VERY important in possibly more ways than we can imagine, his superb strategic thinking is important for the future trials IMHO.
Also , it is highly feasible he could have done his job without being directly employed by the government , so swings and roundabouts....

 

Ive got used to it over the years, Cummings has made his name as a revolutionary , someone who will shake the core of how our government works, and that I WILL support.
Obviously , there are powers that dont want this to happen, and this is a classic example of their will.

 

This IS the point , how does that minor indiscretion by DC translate into a breach of trust in what Boris has promised ?
Yes he could have sacked/resigned him, then employed him in an independent think tank on the same salary, but why should the press dictate who is the bad man, and who is squeaky ?
They can hardly be held up to be without sin themselves, and as I said previously , they are not without bias, and are certainly driven by opposing agendas to the government.
Yes they can hold the government accountable, as can the opposition and other politicians, but who holds the press accountable ?
Do we let them dictate government policy and appointments ?
They are noise, and most of it is not worth listening to.

 

It wouldnt have mattered what he did, he could have sacked him, he could have him hung drawn and quartered , it would not satisfy the mob of anti BJ and tory sentiment popular at the moment.
To some, this government can do nothing right , about covid , brexit, the NHS ....anything !
There are far worse possibilities out there instead of this government, it is by no means perfect, but it is the best we can hope for in these times, and luckily the majority still believe so.

I go along with this. Yes Boris could have sacked him and, in years to come, that may be proven to have been the right thing to do, but personally I think it is great that they are not being bullied by the press. 
 

I don’t think that I am stupid for going along with it but rather that Cummings made a decision that he thought was right (as Kinnock Jnr did who I also supported) and used ‘common sense’ which is what the wider public should have been doing from day 1. But apparently they haven’t. They have been digesting each word of the rules and guidance and following it slavishly. I haven’t. I did what I thought sensible. I even shot pigeons!! Send the journalists round to my house. 

[GingerCat]

2 hours ago, grrclark said:

I voted for Brexit, i'm a Conservative party member, i am personally completely ambivalent about Dom, i'm ridiculously pragmatic and reasonable about almost everything and I very much think that he should go.

What he did in itslef is relatively trivial, the image that is presents to millions of people in this country is not.  It absolutely re-enforces the stereotype of one rule for the elite Tories and a different one for everyone else.  It will do BoJo and his government lasting harm.

10s of thousands of people breach lockdown every day. I think most will accept they would do the same in that situation. When the shops open and brexit takes centre stage again it will disappear out of sight. 

[Newbie to this]

[TIGHTCHOKE]

He looks a sad old ***!

[grrclark]

3 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

10s of thousands of people breach lockdown every day. I think most will accept they would do the same in that situation. When the shops open and brexit takes centre stage again it will disappear out of sight. 

I don't think it will and that is my issue with it all.  It may not achieve the same column inches for sure, but I believe it will do the government harm.

5 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

That is pure deflection.  While he should still be called to account for his actions as a public representative he was not a key part of the government team to actually put the rules in place.  Other than being an MP he is just a punter like the rest of us.

[grrclark]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

No one is more surprised than myself that he is actually staying !
Normally the public image of government is first and foremost, so he SHOULD have been a necessary casualty...
However, he is either VERY important in possibly more ways than we can imagine, his superb strategic thinking is important for the future trials IMHO.
Also , it is highly feasible he could have done his job without being directly employed by the government , so swings and roundabouts....

The bit in bold reinforces the perception that it is one rule for one and another for the rest of us.  Should he be the prima donna that gets a free hand to do whatever he wants just because he might be very good at his job?

I agree that the government bashers would bash anyway, but that is normal for a government of every colour.

As for why does his actions translate into a breach of trust for BoJo?  Directly it shouldn't of course, but BoJo has sacrificed the principle of his government's lockdown rules for the sake of his own man's job.  It is a clear message to the public of one rule for Dom, another for the rest of you.  An argument of sophistry of how his motivation was pure and it really wasn't a technical breach of the rules carries no weight.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

From Paul Goodman

Dominic Cummings began his statement yesterday by sitting down, in a garden, and continued by reading his words out loud from behind a desk.

While he didn't go so far as to don a suit and tie for the occasion, he at least discarded the usual scruffy T-shirt for a tidier white shirt, with its sleeves rolled up. he looked like a nervy teacher on the first day of term. This lecturely style of presentation from Cummings, amidst the greenery and sunshine, somehow bled passion away from the event, and presented an aspect of him that many won’t have seen previously.

Indeed, many people will never have seen him before (and the majority still won’t have seen him at all).  But those who had heard rumour of him may have been surprised.

For instead of War Cummings (hunched, baiting, goading and contemptuous), they got Peace Cummings: not exactly wearing his heart on his sleeve, to be sure, but at least with his head firmly screwed on.

He was in the mode that those of us who know him see a lot: analytical, polite, highly intelligent, agile but unyielding – cool rather than chilly.  There will now follow a rush from his opponents to pick holes in the tapestry he wove.

Shouldn’t he have told the Prime Minister that he was leaving London?  Why test drive for a journey to the capital by motoring to Barnard Castle, rather than simply driving part of the way home?

Wasn’t that trip itself in breach of the lockdown regulations? Why wasn’t the exemption in them that he used publicised by the Government?  And so on.  But essentially, everything boils down to two contrasting views.

Both turn on an agreed fact: that Cummings is in a comfortable position, because he has family members with an empty property, and a privileged one, because he’s Boris Johnson’s most special adviser.

One take will be that he is using legalistic loopholes to justify exploiting his social advantages, while those same wrinkles in the law weren’t made known to others, who have no bolt-holes to go to anyway.

In short, that this proclaimed anti-establishment firebrand has hypocritically married into the elites, and that it’s one law from him – literally – and another for everyone else.

The other view will be that what we saw today was a resolute and honest man, stepping out from backstage and blinking in the light, striving to describe the trade-offs between work, home, family, time and dashes to hospital.

This perspective understands the downsides that come with his turf as well as the upsides, such as the threats to his family’s safety – and the impossibility of making perfect choices while his wife, his child and Johnson were ill.

You must take your pick between the two, and those who will do so represent the full spectrum of human attitudes and dispositions, or something like it.

At one end are those who have been unable to visit their sick relatives, grieve at family funerals, comfort the dying, and haven’t departed with their sick children for other places.  Many of them will have been raging at Cummings.

The rainbow then shifts through the permanently affronted or resentful to Cummings’ Remainer and Labour and Cadwalladresque opponents, who will never forgive him for trouncing them in 2016 and last December…

…And on to his Tory enemies, most of whom he has insulted or bested or both, at one time or another.  As we say here at ConservativeHome, few come to Cummings will clean hands.

Our own assessment is that he is a peerless campaign winner – the great British centre-right one of our time – but not yet a deliverer in government.

Indeed, the experience of Coronavirus suggests – now that Red Wall gain triumphalism has been knocked sideways – that his preferred model of wielding centralised power via pliant Ministers doesn’t work.

We’d like to see a more traditional model of strong Cabinet Ministers exercising the freedom to run their own departments, with some policy shifts, too. But these are matters for another time.

As far as yesterday goes, any fair-minded observer would think better of Cummings’ case, both legal and moral, at the end of today’s press conference than he or she may have done at the beginning.

However, the determinants of his fate will ultimately be crudely political, and there are two crucial audiences: Tory MPs, plus party members, and everyone else.

As far as the former are concerned, we suspect that the 1922 Committee Executive, if it meets this week, is unlikely to demand that the Prime Minister dismiss his adviser.

In the absence of new developments or information, we suspect that the temperature among most Conservative MPs will drop, at least for the moment.  The number openly calling for Cummings to go is still only about 20.

The public may be a tougher nut to crack.  Cummings would not have spoken today, in the wake of Johnson backing him yesterday, with no official inquiry pending, and with the threat from the ’22 remote, without them in mind.

And as we wrote earlier today, Cummings will undoubtedly have been driven to take the gamble of a free-for-all press conference by polling or research which he’s seen that’s bad for him personally.

Will he have turned opinion round?  We doubt it.  Those who have truly suffered during the lockdown – and there are many such people – are less likely to take a benign view of Cummings than this site.

They might say that if he himself is the victim of a culture of populist revolt, it’s one which he himself has helped to craft.  The charge has just enough sting in it to draw blood.

You may counter that there are wider horizons to look for.  The best part of a million people were thrown onto the dole last month.  Nearly a quarter of employees were furloughed in single a fortnight alone.

Britain is set to borrow more than twice as much as after the crash.  The price of lockdown may have been worth paying but the cost is damagingly high – in cancelled operations, domestic abuse, lost schooling, mental health.

Abroad, China is set to swallow up Hong Kong.  Here, the Government grapples with the Coronavirus.  If you think all this is more important than Cummings, you’re right.

But try telling that to his enemies – let alone some of the media pack who grandstood at today’s event (though all that virtue-signalling will have gone down swimmingly in some quarters).

The bottom line is that most of his foes want him out so that Boris Johnson can be weakened, the Conservatives damaged, the Government’s electoral chances set back and EU transition extended.

They shouldn’t succeed, but they could do. For if those poll numbers don’t move, we think that Cummings may walk.  We have few illusions here about British politics.  Or human nature.

[Spoon]

43 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Ignoring the whataboutism here (but seriously, knock it off), do you have a source for him doing this? Three pages deep in to 4 different google searches threw up nothing other than he was admitted to Manchester hospital, unless I'm misreading things. Turning Point UK is not a source anyone should trust, but my searches don't even throw up fringe sites or forums that I'd expect to see in relation to something like this. And those are never usually hard to find.

[mel b3]

30 minutes ago, AVB said:

I go along with this. Yes Boris could have sacked him and, in years to come, that may be proven to have been the right thing to do, but personally I think it is great that they are not being bullied by the press. 
 

I don’t think that I am stupid for going along with it but rather that Cummings made a decision that he thought was right (as Kinnock Jnr did who I also supported) and used ‘common sense’ which is what the wider public should have been doing from day 1. But apparently they haven’t. They have been digesting each word of the rules and guidance and following it slavishly. I haven’t. I did what I thought sensible. I even shot pigeons!! Send the journalists round to my house. 

kinnock jr was a knob as well.

speaking as joe average , the common sense option was never offered to me , i was told by the government , and its scientific advisors , the things that i had to do , i followed these instructions to the letter , not slavishly , or because im too thick to think for myself , i did it because i thought that i was doing the right thing for my country , and the people in it  . for me , doing the right thing (in every part of my life ) is very much a matter of integrity , no matter how much it may cost me personally .