Small rant (just me )

[London Best]

6 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

It’s a two way street 

it really annoys me when picker ups send their dog past me and my dogs to pick Dead birds Infront of the  line 

there’s good and bad on most days 

 

O F, proper pickers up won’t do that. If possible they will be positioned hundreds of yards behind you. On some shoots the guns will never even see the picking up team.

[B725]

1 hour ago, WelshAndy said:

It really annoys me when guns just walk off saying they have a few birds down over there - waving their hands...

Your lucky very often I have to ask as they are walking away. 

[Dave at kelton]

43 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

It’s a two way street 

it really annoys me when picker ups send their dog past me and my dogs to pick Dead birds Infront of the  line 

there’s good and bad on most days 

 

I absolutely agree and if a gun has a dog I always ask what birds they would like to pick as it is their day. You cannot assume as I have frequently been told it’s an old or young don’t worry or it’s out because it can’t be left at home. It’s all about all parties on the day respecting the position of the others present. 

[Old farrier]

32 minutes ago, London Best said:

O F, proper pickers up won’t do that. If possible they will be positioned hundreds of yards behind you. On some shoots the guns will never even see the picking up team.

Lb you’ve been about long enough to know that it happens 

iv seen and done both sides but there’s plenty of wannabe picker ups that haven’t got a clue 

the biggest clue they get from me is that I introduced myself at the start of the day and say I have my dogs and would like to pick up the birds infront of the line at the end of the drive 

dose it stop them? 
i don’t hire them for the day although our team pays for the day 

I understand guns with dogs are a nuisance as it can upset the system but I won’t shoot without one as It’s part of the day for me 

and tbh good picker ups arnt a probl

7 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

I absolutely agree and if a gun has a dog I always ask what birds they would like to pick as it is their day. You cannot assume as I have frequently been told it’s an old or young don’t worry or it’s out because it can’t be left at home. It’s all about all parties on the day respecting the position of the others present. 

Exactly what I do when I’m picking up it’s not hard To be polite and to mention to a visitor with dogs the boundaries and the area’s not to send a dog 

[WelshAndy]

8 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Lb you’ve been about long enough to know that it happens 

iv seen and done both sides but there’s plenty of wannabe picker ups that haven’t got a clue 

the biggest clue they get from me is that I introduced myself at the start of the day and say I have my dogs and would like to pick up the birds infront of the line at the end of the drive 

dose it stop them? 
i don’t hire them for the day although our team pays for the day 

I understand guns with dogs are a nuisance as it can upset the system but I won’t shoot without one as It’s part of the day for me 

and tbh good picker ups arnt a probl

Exactly what I do when I’m picking up it’s not hard To be polite and to mention to a visitor with dogs the boundaries and the area’s not to send a dog 

Totally agree with you. 

[WalkedUp]

My funniest experience was with a lady picker up, I was on my peg with my dog. She came and stood next / in front of me during the drive to get a better view / chat 🤣 I broke my gun and unloaded it, but remained as polite as possible whilst not talking. As it happened no birds came over me anyway but it was quite funny. 

[London Best]

As Old farrier said, wannabe picker ups that don’t have a clue.

[WalkedUp]

At least they are trying, can’t knock someone for wanting to get involved. Just difficult as people like me are self taught rather than coming from a family who shoot. I’ve made (and still make) so many mistakes along the way in terms of etiquette and approach that I cringe thinking back. One underkeeper tore a strip off a woman on her first time on the Moor for not keeping up with the line. She was in tears and I was not he’s pleased with him. 

[Old farrier]

5 hours ago, London Best said:

O F, proper pickers up won’t do that. If possible they will be positioned hundreds of yards behind you. On some shoots the guns will never even see the picking up team.

 

44 minutes ago, London Best said:

As Old farrier said, wannabe picker ups that don’t have a clue.

Make your mind up please 😊

[scotslad]

It's a funny thing picking up or working dogs in general, really it's not that difficult as long as u have a bit off common sense as well as some Game sense.

Many guns and handlers have very little game sense, knowing/or guessing where game will be and how it will behave. Even little things like slamming a pack up door on a frosty Jan morn.

Possibly a lack of walked up shooting

 

I know many local estates rarely bother with the many local FT trainers, mainly for 2 reasons 1 there often there to train there dogs and 2 if they get a last minute run in a trial they often cancel to go to the trial, leaving them short of a picker at short notice.

Althou I do think the problem is more often with relative new comers to the FT scene.

I know the few FT trainers that are in demand usually come out with a team of pot lickers, mix of all sorts of breeds and rarely a comp dog.

I've often seen spaniel trainers refuse to let there dogs enter thick unseen cover incase they get up to mischief unseen, which I do understand just not great for the keeper.

Also been on a few spaniel training days where u'd have more luck herding cats than getting them into gamey ground,

Mind once when shooting at a FT and just coming to some rabbit net fence where u could see spaniel was on scent, so chances are birds running on till hit fence, bloody handler walked right in front of me and wonders why I never shot???

 

I know locally there is a bit off a shortage of decent pickers up, or even pickers up.

 

Must admit I don't really like working my dogs throu a drive if I can help it r be far enough back ur well away from guns if a winged 1 comes down.

It is a good point about guns with dogs, at end off the day there paying for the day, dead birds around there feet will still be there long after the gun and dog have left.

 

I mind years ago a gun came over and thanked me for not picking some birds, was a grouse drive that they knock over a deep gully so more like an upland partridge drive than a traditional grouse drive.

Really the only safe place to stand which doesn't spook the birds is with the guns themselves. 

The gun below me had his boy with him and shot a couple of absolute screamers which landed not far behind me up the face, he said it just topped the day off with his dog retrieving them. I just stood and watched with dogs at heel

Quite often if we do that drive I never let me dogs go as guns often have dogs and never that productive

[Dave at kelton]

12 minutes ago, scotslad said:

It's a funny thing picking up or working dogs in general, really it's not that difficult as long as u have a bit off common sense as well as some Game sense.

Many guns and handlers have very little game sense, knowing/or guessing where game will be and how it will behave. Even little things like slamming a pack up door on a frosty Jan morn.

Possibly a lack of walked up shooting

 

I know many local estates rarely bother with the many local FT trainers, mainly for 2 reasons 1 there often there to train there dogs and 2 if they get a last minute run in a trial they often cancel to go to the trial, leaving them short of a picker at short notice.

Althou I do think the problem is more often with relative new comers to the FT scene.

I know the few FT trainers that are in demand usually come out with a team of pot lickers, mix of all sorts of breeds and rarely a comp dog.

I've often seen spaniel trainers refuse to let there dogs enter thick unseen cover incase they get up to mischief unseen, which I do understand just not great for the keeper.

Also been on a few spaniel training days where u'd have more luck herding cats than getting them into gamey ground,

Mind once when shooting at a FT and just coming to some rabbit net fence where u could see spaniel was on scent, so chances are birds running on till hit fence, bloody handler walked right in front of me and wonders why I never shot???

 

I know locally there is a bit off a shortage of decent pickers up, or even pickers up.

 

Must admit I don't really like working my dogs throu a drive if I can help it r be far enough back ur well away from guns if a winged 1 comes down.

It is a good point about guns with dogs, at end off the day there paying for the day, dead birds around there feet will still be there long after the gun and dog have left.

 

I mind years ago a gun came over and thanked me for not picking some birds, was a grouse drive that they knock over a deep gully so more like an upland partridge drive than a traditional grouse drive.

Really the only safe place to stand which doesn't spook the birds is with the guns themselves. 

The gun below me had his boy with him and shot a couple of absolute screamers which landed not far behind me up the face, he said it just topped the day off with his dog retrieving them. I just stood and watched with dogs at heel

Quite often if we do that drive I never let me dogs go as guns often have dogs and never that productive

Reminds me of a day last season. Head keeper came over and said “Right guys team captain says guns have dogs and anyone picks his birds he’ll shoot the ***** dog”  That was a motivational moment for the picking up team at the start of a big day when we were going to be working our crackers off. 😂😂😂😂😂

[scotslad]

That's a bit harsh.

Some guns can be ....... to thou

 

[Lloyd90]

21 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

Reminds me of a day last season. Head keeper came over and said “Right guys team captain says guns have dogs and anyone picks his birds he’ll shoot the ***** dog”  That was a motivational moment for the picking up team at the start of a big day when we were going to be working our crackers off. 😂😂😂😂😂

Id have told him if he shot my dog he’d be going home with an **** hole full of lead shot after I’d stuck his gun where the sun don’t shine and give it both barrels! 
 

Cant stand rude guns on shoots. Think they’re doing you a favour. They might be paying for the day but lads are usually working for their dogs for less money than it costs them to even drive there. 

[WalkedUp]

24 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

Reminds me of a day last season. Head keeper came over and said “Right guys team captain says guns have dogs and anyone picks his birds he’ll shoot the ***** dog”  That was a motivational moment for the picking up team at the start of a big day when we were going to be working our crackers off. 😂😂😂😂😂

Clearly the team captain has too much money money and too little class. 1. A crass joke as many digs are shot by guns 2. Threatening to shoot a non-quarry animal/person/object is not befitting of someone who holds a Shotgun Certificate. 

I pick up and I also shoot, so see both sides of it. 

[Saltings]

On 25/06/2020 at 16:31, Dave at kelton said:

Your point on using the wind is well made.Any good experienced dog will do just that if you shut up and let it. I notice it particularly in one of my labs just now. Send him back on a line and when he gets to the hunt area he will move off the line to get the wind in his face. Undoubtedly that would be a fail in trialling terms but it’s just what I want from a picking up dog. Half the battle is knowing when to shut up and let your dog do its job and the dog to have confidence to work without constant guidance.

a hunting dog puts game in the bag a field trial dog does what its told  even when told wrong      what ever training you do make sure the dog cannot fail use the wind   (dummies tennis balls in the dog food bag etc re scent   )  always use a tractor track / fence line / sheep track / for the run our   so they turn in to the wind  you always send down wind to turn in    one ft up wind will be lost with frantic commands even if you see the retrieve send your dog  20 yrds down wind to turn in   the more you intervene it breaks the dogs confidence    send your dog and handle as you need to get into the right area sometimes much further than the retrieve  to pick the wind and scent  the dog will turn in/ back     watch the dog its body language    changes       be quiet    its retriever and on the way back no need to do the recall whistle  when they come back   if you talk to them as silly as a baby     they will do anything for you its all about the fuss      at the end of the day the dog will trust you to put it in the right place to be successful if you are consistent      obedience first / second make sure they cant fail in training / the rest falls into place  increasing distances  obstacles  its all about fun and praise       not guide by numbers field trialing dogs as now its own sport   ask a field trailer to get on a runner  they wont send their dog     iv been on field trial training days two or three greedy guns centre line all day walked up everything blown to bits 15 / 20 yrds big whoop  I shot a 40 +yrd pheasant dead in air on the outside of the line  flapping on the ground dead  I picked it up myself as no one would send their dog as it could have lost points as too far    I was discussed and voiced  my concerns  and walked off the field  they are there to retrieve dispatch game as quickly as possible  out of ten dogs that day not one worth a penny to me       my dogs are obedient I shut up they hunt they don't mis a lot inland or day or night on the salt marshes 

[London Best]

12 hours ago, Old farrier said:

 

Make your mind up please 😊

Point was the difference between ‘proper pickers up’ who knew what they were doing and ‘wannabes’ who didn’t know what they were on with.

[WelshAndy]

Just watched this fantastic retrieve on you tube

 

 

shows a field trail dog can think for itself! 😂

[Dave at kelton]

15 minutes ago, WelshAndy said:

Just watched this fantastic retrieve on you tube

 

 

shows a field trail dog can think for itself! 😂

Agreed and also a handler that trusted the dog to do what it needed, and kept quiet.

[B725]

Very impressed, that's what a well trained dog is all about. There was no fuss no drama just letting the dog work it out.

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, WelshAndy said:

Just watched this fantastic retrieve on you tube

 

 

shows a field trail dog can think for itself! 😂

What a pick. See what I mean, there’s no way the handler had a clue where that bird had gone in that situation, just send your dog and pray. 
 

If the dog had gone off the line and done massive sweeping arches all over that cover crop he would have undoubted disturbed any other game in the area, but he didn’t. He picked that single bird with precision and without disturbing anything else, outstanding. 
 

They would have carried on and shot other birds after that because they hadn’t been spooked. 

[bigbird]

Absolutely sick to death of people who say trial dogs are ‘robots’ and ‘can’t think for themselves’

A good dog is a good dog whether a trial dog or a shooting companion or I should say AND / OR a shooting companion.

Edited June 29, 2020 by bigbird

[WelshAndy]

🙋🏼‍♂️ I can be guilty of that 🙈 but I have seen a few trail dogs that are over handled. 

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

Absolutely sick to death of people who say trial dogs are ‘robots’ and ‘can’t think for themselves’

A good dog is a good dog whether a trial dog or a shooting companion.

 

[scotslad]

17 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Absolutely sick to death of people who say trial dogs are ‘robots’ and ‘can’t think for themselves’

A good dog is a good dog whether a trial dog or a shooting companion or I should say AND / OR a shooting companion.

It really depends who's training them.

I do think some of the newer FT trainers do try to robotise there dogs to some degree as they don't know any better or have access to enough shooting as not really shooting folk.

 

I mind I was at the Springer? champs a few years ago now and a dog got a CoM for not picking a bird, injured bird from the previous beat dog must off nudged 3 or 4 times, now I realise it was unshot at that moment but surely u want a dog to peg any injured birds

 

Not meaning to have a go at FT as  far to big a thing to generalise so many trainers train different ways

[bigbird]

37 minutes ago, WelshAndy said:

🙋🏼‍♂️ I can be guilty of that 🙈 but I have seen a few trail dogs that are over handled. 

 

Probably a result of nerves / pressure on the part of the handler our Andy!

[WelshAndy]

18 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Probably a result of nerves / pressure on the part of the handler our Andy!

True 👍🏻