udderlyoffroad Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 5 hours ago, Scully said: What I’m trying to get at is that this incarceration/jail/imprisonment, whatever, for a year, flies in the face of the criteria on which our rights and freedoms are based; that of ‘innocent until proven guilty’. And? A year before a trial, with the accused on remand/in jail is hardly unheard of. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't sit well with me either, but are you really only just noticing this now? In a lot of countries, including our close European neighbours, you can rot in prison without even being charged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako7mm Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) Innocent until proven guilty indeed, Scully. And that's why unconvicted (remand) prisoners have more rights than convicted ones. I do wonder how exactly you think all the work I outlined in my earlier post should be done according to your idea of a reasonable timescale. Complex cases take a lot of time to get to trial. It's not always the fault of the prosecution or of the defence, for that matter. I have intimate knowledge of a case here in the UK in which the main suspect was charged last year. Today a Court listed it for a lengthy trial on the first available slot. It's next January. That's the way it is. Of course, if the suspect didn't want to run the risk of being incarcerated, they were at liberty to give no-one any reasonable grounds to suspect that they were involved in criminal conduct. Edited July 22, 2020 by Sako7mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 6 hours ago, Sako7mm said: Innocent until proven guilty indeed, Scully. And that's why unconvicted (remand) prisoners have more rights than convicted ones. I do wonder how exactly you think all the work I outlined in my earlier post should be done according to your idea of a reasonable timescale. Complex cases take a lot of time to get to trial. It's not always the fault of the prosecution or of the defence, for that matter. I have intimate knowledge of a case here in the UK in which the main suspect was charged last year. Today a Court listed it for a lengthy trial on the first available slot. It's next January. That's the way it is. Of course, if the suspect didn't want to run the risk of being incarcerated, they were at liberty to give no-one any reasonable grounds to suspect that they were involved in criminal conduct. I know complex cases take time to get to trial, but that’s the problem of prosecutors, and not the problem of the ‘innocent until proven guilty’ suspect. It’s not as black and white as you suggest; it’s not unknown for people to be found innocent. Just a thought. 7 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: And? A year before a trial, with the accused on remand/in jail is hardly unheard of. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't sit well with me either, but are you really only just noticing this now? In a lot of countries, including our close European neighbours, you can rot in prison without even being charged. 7 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: And? A year before a trial, with the accused on remand/in jail is hardly unheard of. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't sit well with me either, but are you really only just noticing this now? In a lot of countries, including our close European neighbours, you can rot in prison without even being charged. None of that makes it right, or acceptable. It won’t be too long ( given the track record of PW ) before someone is ranting about the injustices of the way our legal system works, or doesn’t, and asking ‘ whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty’. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickeydredd Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 Oh dear, looks like there are tapes according to Gorgeous George, hope her suicide watch is better than Epstein's...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, Mickeydredd said: Oh dear, looks like there are tapes according to Gorgeous George, hope her suicide watch is better than Epstein's..... Yes it's been suggested for a while that there are tapes. Epstein's island home was wired for sound and vision. First time I've heard Blair's name mentioned in connection with the Epstein case. If there is a God . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako7mm Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Scully said:I know complex cases take time to get to trial, but that’s the problem of prosecutors, and not the problem of the ‘innocent until proven guilty’ suspect..... It's not unknown for people to be found innocent. How on earth is when a trial is listed the problem of prosecutors? They do not dictate when a court hears a case. That is down to the court. You’re right about one thing- it’s not unknown for people to be found innocent. Like O.J. Simpson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 Oh my there will be a lot of high ranking people absolutely bricking it, it will be very interesting what comes out over the next few week's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 Just now, B725 said: Oh my there will be a lot of high ranking people absolutely bricking it, it will be very interesting what comes out over the next few week's A potential **** storm! 36 minutes ago, Mr_Nobody said: Yes it's been suggested for a while that there are tapes. Epstein's island home was wired for sound and vision. First time I've heard Blair's name mentioned in connection with the Epstein case. If there is a God . . . Teflon Tony will never get caught for his many crimes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 Indeed TC how far will the high and mighty fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, B725 said: Indeed TC how far will the high and mighty fall. Not far enough and not enough of them either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 57 minutes ago, Mickeydredd said: Oh dear, looks like there are tapes according to Gorgeous George, Galloway is a fantasist - and makes up stories so that he can appear in the press - usually dressed up like a dogs breakfast regurgitated, spoken like an 'over the top' Shakespearian actor - and about half as reliable. I don't think what he utters is anything more than pure guess work and fantasy. However - tapes there may be ........... and we will have to wait and see if they turn up. My guess is that they won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 Hello, I see trump wished her well 🤔 30 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Galloway is a fantasist - and makes up stories so that he can appear in the press - usually dressed up like a dogs breakfast regurgitated, spoken like an 'over the top' Shakespearian actor - and about half as reliable. I don't think what he utters is anything more than pure guess work and fantasy. However - tapes there may be ........... and we will have to wait and see if they turn up. My guess is that they won't. Hello, what do you expect from a man that went for a nice afternoon tea with a mass murderer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sako7mm said: How on earth is when a trial is listed the problem of prosecutors? They do not dictate when a court hears a case. That is down to the court. You’re right about one thing- it’s not unknown for people to be found innocent. Like O.J. Simpson. The issue is not the amount of time it takes to come to trial, the issue is being incarcerated until then. There are other solutions available that could ensure her continued presence in the US, without imposing a full denial of liberty. Edited July 22, 2020 by grrclark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 3 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, what do you expect from a man that went for a nice afternoon tea with a mass murderer? But not as often as did Mr Rumsfeld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 4 hours ago, Mr_Nobody said: Yes it's been suggested for a while that there are tapes. Epstein's island home was wired for sound and vision. First time I've heard Blair's name mentioned in connection with the Epstein case. If there is a God . . . Oh I really hope so - even though can't blame him for cavorting elsewhere than home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Sako7mm said: How on earth is when a trial is listed the problem of prosecutors? They do not dictate when a court hears a case. That is down to the court. You’re right about one thing- it’s not unknown for people to be found innocent. Like O.J. Simpson. 5 hours ago, Sako7mm said: How on earth is when a trial is listed the problem of prosecutors? They do not dictate when a court hears a case. That is down to the court. You’re right about one thing- it’s not unknown for people to be found innocent. Like O.J. Simpson. You stated it took time for all the evidence etc to be gathered, and I’m not disputing that, but it is the problem of the prosecutors and indeed defence team, and not the problem of the accused, who as a result has lost their liberty while that work ensues. My argument isn’t about the length of time to get to trial, but rather Maxwell being jailed until then....nigh on a year! Im not sure what point you’re trying to make regarding Simpson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 2 hours ago, enfieldspares said: But not as often as did Mr Rumsfeld. Hello, not sure who this is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 47 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, not sure who this is? Looks to me like Donald Rumsfelt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfeld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 A Judge (in USA) has ordered certain documents that Maxwell allegedly wanted kept secret be released https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/23/ghislaine-maxwell-case-extremely-personal-documents-to-be-unsealed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: A Judge (in USA) has ordered certain documents that Maxwell allegedly wanted kept secret be released https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/23/ghislaine-maxwell-case-extremely-personal-documents-to-be-unsealed How does a suspect expect to keep documents secret? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: How does a suspect expect to keep documents secret? I can't answer that - other than to claim they are not of relevance to the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 That can only be decided when those that make such decisions have seen them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted July 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: I can't answer that - other than to claim they are not of relevance to the case? stuff that ....open the damn things...we all want a gander at them to bring a little excitement or whatever into our lives.. i should go into her cell and smack her bottom and make her tell everything.... Edited July 23, 2020 by ditchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 minute ago, ditchman said: stuff that ....open the damn things...we all want a gander at them to bring a little excitement or whatever into our lives.. 😂 Been in lockdown too long Ditchy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted July 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Scully said: 😂 Been in lockdown too long Ditchy? far too long.....................i think im turning........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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