False counting

[Walker570]

It would appear that a major part of the national scare tactics, the daily report of deaths and the total have been falsified.  It now appears that if you had Covid 19 and recovered but then 28 days later had a road accident or similar and died as a result then the 'tick'boxers' counted that person in as a Covid death.  Even is after that period someone died from natural causes they still got included.

Seems to support my previous information by the young Doctor in New York who reported that if he could not diagnose a reason for death he was told to put down Covid on the death certificate even though the illness did not exist.

How much other false information have we been fed?

[discobob]

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Only joking - I do have to say I do believe that there is something going on that we are not aware of fully or even partially!

[DoolinDalton]

I've said it before on here and the info came from the Government.  In care homes, if a single person / resident was diagnosed with Covid, then it was assumed AND recorded that EVERY resident has /had it. So if/ when a resident died, the cause of death was recorded as Covid 19, even though it might have been something unrelated.  Some high up official in the WHO said that if the deaths wee recorded honestly, there would probably be only half of them due to Covid.

[Dougy]

All the numbers are correct at time of publish, same as the amount of boat people landing on the beach, and the exact amount of earning declared to the Tax man by all the mega companies big boss's. 

Come on your not all that gullible.    

[Munzy]

What’s the hidden motivation for bumping Covid numbers up then?

I assume it must be something juicy being as these “inflated” numbers make the government look bad, indirectly force unemployment figures through the roof, kill the economy and generally scare the population.

I would’ve thought numbers would’ve been falsified the other way to make the government look like they have a firm handle on the issue, inspire people to keep spending and encourage businesses not to make their employees redundant.

[AVB]

1 hour ago, Munzy said:

What’s the hidden motivation for bumping Covid numbers up then?

I assume it must be something juicy being as these “inflated” numbers make the government look bad, indirectly force unemployment figures through the roof, kill the economy and generally scare the population.

I would’ve thought numbers would’ve been falsified the other way to make the government look like they have a firm handle on the issue, inspire people to keep spending and encourage businesses not to make their employees redundant.

Health service wanting massive investment, left wing civil servants wanting to discredit the government, incompetent scientists. There are countless reasons as to why the numbers are overstated. 

[Munzy]

1 hour ago, AVB said:

Health service wanting massive investment, left wing civil servants wanting to discredit the government, incompetent scientists. There are countless reasons as to why the numbers are overstated. 

Would these outlets not be taken to task or indeed stopped before publishing if the results were inflated. Surely the Government’s motivation to reduce the numbers (for the reasons I pointed out above) lead them to halt the publishing of inflated numbers if there were untrue?

[silver pigeon69]

6 minutes ago, Munzy said:

Would these outlets not be taken to task or indeed stopped before publishing if the results were inflated. Surely the Government’s motivation to reduce the numbers (for the reasons I pointed out above) lead them to halt the publishing of inflated numbers if there were untrue?

I don't think the Government could. Imagine if the Government turned round and said the NHS are lying! How well would that go down and who would people believe? 

 

[AVB]

10 hours ago, Munzy said:

Would these outlets not be taken to task or indeed stopped before publishing if the results were inflated. Surely the Government’s motivation to reduce the numbers (for the reasons I pointed out above) lead them to halt the publishing of inflated numbers if there were untrue?

One of the problems is that there is no international standard on how to count the deaths. Even England and Scotland have different approaches. So PHE (who publish the daily English deaths) can just say that they are trying to make sure that they don’t miss anybody when, in reality, everybody thinks their approach (counting a death of anybody who has EVER tested positive for CV19 at any time as a covid death) is ridiculous. 

[ShootingEgg]

15 hours ago, DoolinDalton said:

I've said it before on here and the info came from the Government.  In care homes, if a single person / resident was diagnosed with Covid, then it was assumed AND recorded that EVERY resident has /had it. So if/ when a resident died, the cause of death was recorded as Covid 19, even though it might have been something unrelated.  Some high up official in the WHO said that if the deaths wee recorded honestly, there would probably be only half of them due to Covid.

This did happen, to my Gran. She was admitted to a home with no confirmed cases, the week she fell ill with a urine infection, one confirmed case two days before she passed, and it went down as Covid-19. No test pre or post.... So she became a statistic for Covid-19. I do not believe it was due to it, but have to just now accept thats what it was blamed on. 

[Vince Green]

How many people test positive on a Monday and get knocked down by a bus on Friday? Not many?

What we do know has been happening is this ^^^^ from Shooting egg

Because GPs have not been seeing patients or going into care homes many more people have died without being seen by a doctor before they died.

By law these deaths would require a post mortum and I believe an inquest.

However, the pathology depts of hospitals wouldn't be able to cope with the workload of all those PMs So GPs were instructed to put C-19 on all death certificates because under the present emergency measures that exempted them from the need for PM and inquest. Even if there was no evidence of C-19

A doctor was highlighting this on the internet a couple of weeks back and then he and his links became unavailable 

 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Vince Green

[Thunderbird]

In care homes, doctors were no longer required to agree on a cause of death, and the care home owner / operator was free to report any death as Covid if they saw fit. Then the body got cremated, so no evidence. 

Now imagine a situation where the care home staff (such as they were) sat in the coffee room either too scared, too understaffed, or even too lazy to care for patients and many patients then died of neglect. What's the operator going to do, come clean, or just say Covid? You don't have to be a genius to work that one out. There is currently at least one gentleman taking legal action because his wife died of thirst / starvation and it was put down as Covid. 

Once more people realise this, more whistleblowers are going to come out. It's going to gain momentum along with a few other things. I would not be the least surprised if this will be the end of Boris, Hancock, et al. 

[Thunderbird]

14 hours ago, Munzy said:

What’s the hidden motivation for bumping Covid numbers up then?

 

Now that Munzy, is an incredibly good question.

I'm no conspiracy theorist but I believe the Government is doing all it can to cover up its own incompetence, so if that's a conspiracy then so be it.

For example sticking to the totally discredited Imperial College 'modelling' (aka guessing) for starters. High deaths and fear-mongering justify the lockdown don't they? Like the face masks thing, months after the peak, and probably only because Sturgeon did it. 

The Government and mass media have done a propaganda job any tinpot dictatorship would nod at in approval. Now they are expecting people to go out and spend money whilst at the same time still scaring the bejeesus out of people. 

The economy is well and truly up the swannie. I have spent the last three months working on redundancies, mostly workforce reductions of around 20%. It's depressing. The person delivering your DPD parcel was probably on £35k a year a few months ago and feeling pretty secure. 

The Bank of England expects the UK to have the fastest and deepest recession since the ‘Great Frost’ of 1709. To put that into more context, that is a time when Britain had not yet undergone the Industrial Revolution, Louis XIV was still on the throne in France, and the United States of America did not exist.

[AVB]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

How many people test positive on a Monday and get knocked down by a bus on Friday? Not many?

 

 

Perhaps not but the approach is totally flawed. It means that everybody who has ever tested positive (Currently c.300,000) will be classed as covid deaths when they eventually die. Whether that be today, tomorrow, next week, next year. Imagine how many of the deaths currently categorised as covid had actually recovered but then died of old age, cancer, heart attack, accidents etc. But according to PHE all would be classed as Covid deaths. 
 

Other countries have a time limit (28 days for example) between positive test and death for it to be counted as a covid death. 

[treetree]

21 hours ago, Munzy said:

What’s the hidden motivation for bumping Covid numbers up then?

Fear = control = power

I think they'll keep this going on for as long as they can get away with, because once it stops they know people will ask "what just happened?"

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Thunderbird said:

The person delivering your DPD parcel was probably on £35k a year a few months ago and feeling pretty secure. 

 

Dream on. A self employed driver might earn close to that but that's before taking off the costs for his van and fuel. No directly employed driver is making that, Parcel Force guys are pretty well paid and they are only clearing about £26k, UPS drivers might make a bit more simply because they need a CPC card to drive those vans that UPS use. However that also restricts the hours they can drive. I'd guess at around £28k for them.

[Dave-G]

5 minutes ago, Mr_Nobody said:

Dream on. A self employed driver might earn close to that but that's before taking off the costs for his van and fuel. No directly employed driver is making that, Parcel Force guys are pretty well paid and they are only clearing about £26k, UPS drivers might make a bit more simply because they need a CPC card to drive those vans that UPS use. However that also restricts the hours they can drive. I'd guess at around £28k for them.

I think he meant the driver used to have decent earnings before taking DPD out of desperation.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

I think he meant the driver used to have decent earnings before taking DPD out of desperation.

Ah yes I see now!

Long, hot day out delivering stuff. 

[islandgun]

Isnt counting excess deaths the most sensible way, this years compared to the last few years, with allowance made for population fluctuation

[Thunderbird]

35 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

I think he meant the driver used to have decent earnings before taking DPD out of desperation.

I did indeed! 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Thunderbird said:

I did indeed! 

My apologies good sir! That's what I get for skimming through replies. 

[Munzy]

11 hours ago, Thunderbird said:

Now that Munzy, is an incredibly good question.

I'm no conspiracy theorist but I believe the Government is doing all it can to cover up its own incompetence...

...High deaths and fear-mongering justify the lockdown don't they? Like the face masks thing, months after the peak, and probably only because Sturgeon did it.

...Now they are expecting people to go out and spend money whilst at the same time still scaring the bejeesus out of people.

This logic seems to be shared by a lot on this thread but it seems inconsistent to me.

If I take your first point, “The government is trying to cover up its own incompetence” then why aren’t these numbers being DEFLATED? Lower numbers would show that the government’s actions were spot-on. To the contrary, allowing inflated numbers to be be published does the opposite.

Regarding your second point, “Fear mongering justifies the lockdown”, yes absolutely. I completely agree that if the government wanted to spread fear and enforce a strict lockdown then inflating numbers would do it. However, at no point have we been under a strict lockdown compared to other countries, not even close. Face masks were forced very late in the day too, so again, inflating numbers wouldn’t seem to be useful to the government. Had the government fixed everyone to stay at home in a Spanish style lockdown and were concerned that the British people wouldn’t like it I can see inflating the numbers as being the tactic to employ. But that wasn’t the case.

So your final point, “They are expecting people to go out and spend money...”, yes they definitely are and I would say the government has always tried to support the economy at the cost of losing lives. The very reason we haven’t been locked down or been wearing masks for months is because it would hurt the economy. So, to bring it back around; if the government was wanting us to keep calm and carry on spending them “fear” is the worst thing they could spread. Fear stops people going out and spending, therefore the logic says numbers should have been vastly deflated to spread the message, “Covid, what Covid? Stay at work, keep shopping, business as usual”.

I just don’t see any consistency in the logic people are employing to claim/explain that numbers are being inflated.

The only reason I’ve read so far for which calling a non-Covid death “Covid” is to ensure that no post Morten happens. The logic makes sense in this case but even then I ask myself having explained the points above; why would the government allow it because it makes them look worse and hampers their attempts to keep us spending.

[Thunderbird]

12 hours ago, Mr_Nobody said:

My apologies good sir! That's what I get for skimming through replies. 

No worries!

[Thunderbird]

17 hours ago, Munzy said:

This logic seems to be shared by a lot on this thread but it seems inconsistent to me.

If I take your first point, “The government is trying to cover up its own incompetence” then why aren’t these numbers being DEFLATED? Lower numbers would show that the government’s actions were spot-on. To the contrary, allowing inflated numbers to be be published does the opposite.

Regarding your second point, “Fear mongering justifies the lockdown”, yes absolutely. I completely agree that if the government wanted to spread fear and enforce a strict lockdown then inflating numbers would do it. However, at no point have we been under a strict lockdown compared to other countries, not even close. Face masks were forced very late in the day too, so again, inflating numbers wouldn’t seem to be useful to the government. Had the government fixed everyone to stay at home in a Spanish style lockdown and were concerned that the British people wouldn’t like it I can see inflating the numbers as being the tactic to employ. But that wasn’t the case.

So your final point, “They are expecting people to go out and spend money...”, yes they definitely are and I would say the government has always tried to support the economy at the cost of losing lives. The very reason we haven’t been locked down or been wearing masks for months is because it would hurt the economy. So, to bring it back around; if the government was wanting us to keep calm and carry on spending them “fear” is the worst thing they could spread. Fear stops people going out and spending, therefore the logic says numbers should have been vastly deflated to spread the message, “Covid, what Covid? Stay at work, keep shopping, business as usual”.

I just don’t see any consistency in the logic people are employing to claim/explain that numbers are being inflated.

The only reason I’ve read so far for which calling a non-Covid death “Covid” is to ensure that no post Morten happens. The logic makes sense in this case but even then I ask myself having explained the points above; why would the government allow it because it makes them look worse and hampers their attempts to keep us spending.

Thanks Munzy. It is indeed confusing and inconsistent. 

Despite us not having the kind of draconian stuff currently happening in some parts of Australia for example, large parts of our economy have in effect been in strict lock-down and life will never be the same for a lot of people. For example if it becomes widespread knowledge that the 2017/2018 flu season killed more people than this did (even with the dodgy figures) then people are going to start asking why all the fuss in the first place, and was any of it necessary? 

Given that it was somewhat unseasonable, perhaps people will say, why didn't we just shield the very vulnerable and let the rest of us get on with it? For example a child is at much greater risk of the flu than they are of Covid, so why shut schools given that there is (I think) no documented case worldwide of a child passing the virus to an adult? 

Also there is the Boris factor. He was fat, caught it, and had a nasty dose so we're told. So now we should all lose weight. Boris rides a bike, so now we should all ride bikes. 

Also, were it not for mass media pressure I don't think they would have locked down in the first place and Boris's original 'herd immunity' policy may have remained the policy. But because they did cave to it, I think they feel they've got to keep it going. It's like a "sunk cost" fallacy, i.e. throwing good money after bad. 

Some people are calling this whole show the worst mistake peacetime governments have ever made. Only time will tell if that's true. 

What will happen of course is that the Government will give itself a massive pat on the back and Boris will try and have his Churchill moment saying that "we beat the virus" - only we didn't, the virus has followed the path that most viruses do, lockdown or not. Because so many alleged Covid deaths (which can now never be proved otherwise) happened, they can in a circular, ex post facto kind of way, 'prove' that what they did, whatever it was, was right. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Thunderbird