Taste of Game

[Jim Neal]

On 24/10/2020 at 04:24, southeastpete said:

What is this ‘shouldering the burden’ talk, as if getting pheasant/partridge etc to take home to eat us a burden? It’s a pleasure

Have you ever taken home 26 pheasants after a shoot, crowned them out, pared off the breasts, washed them, packaged them up and stored them?  Do you know how long that takes, and how creative you have to become in order to use the meat without wasting it?

It is indeed a pleasure to take home and use, or share with someone who gratefully receives it, your fair share of the bag.  What isn't a pleasure is to be obliged after every shoot day to take home a massively disproportionate amount of the shot game and personally ensure that it doesn't go to waste because some lazy ******** can't be bothered to do the right thing!  It becomes rather a chore.  I think I must have processed well over 100 birds last season.

If people don't think they've got any responsibility for putting the game they've shot into use correctly, they shouldn't be entitled to participate in shooting it!

It's not OK to be so apathetic and utterly dismissive of the issue of doing the correct thing.  Tradition is the foundation of the sport, and the traditions are upheld for a very good reason.  These aren't opinions of my own making - although I wholeheartedly support them - they are the traditions and standards which have been the fabric of game shooting for as long as it has been a sport.

As always, it will be the minority of lazy and selfish people who end up being the death of the sport.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

24 minutes ago, Jim Neal said:

As always, it will be the minority of lazy and selfish people who end up being the death of the sport.

It will.

[Scully]

4 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

Have you ever taken home 26 pheasants after a shoot, crowned them out, pared off the breasts, washed them, packaged them up and stored them?  Do you know how long that takes, and how creative you have to become in order to use the meat without wasting it?

It is indeed a pleasure to take home and use, or share with someone who gratefully receives it, your fair share of the bag.  What isn't a pleasure is to be obliged after every shoot day to take home a massively disproportionate amount of the shot game and personally ensure that it doesn't go to waste because some lazy ******** can't be bothered to do the right thing!  It becomes rather a chore.  I think I must have processed well over 100 birds last season.

If people don't think they've got any responsibility for putting the game they've shot into use correctly, they shouldn't be entitled to participate in shooting it!

It's not OK to be so apathetic and utterly dismissive of the issue of doing the correct thing.  Tradition is the foundation of the sport, and the traditions are upheld for a very good reason.  These aren't opinions of my own making - although I wholeheartedly support them - they are the traditions and standards which have been the fabric of game shooting for as long as it has been a sport.

As always, it will be the minority of lazy and selfish people who end up being the death of the sport.

Can I assume you rant to all those ‘lazy ********’ on your shoot the way you’re ranting on here? Can I also assume you’ve told them that if they don’t take some home they shouldn’t be entitled to shoot them? 
I pay to shoot, and on a good day I’ll maybe shoot just into double figures on our small stand one beat one syndicate, but I only take a brace or two home. 
Have just returned from a 300 bird day where the guns have paid around £1500 each for the privilege; they’ll maybe take a brace or two home, or maybe not. The choice is theirs. 
 

[Scully]

On 24/10/2020 at 04:24, southeastpete said:

 

I always said of pigeon shooting vs clays, why would I pay to shoot something I can’t eat, when I can shoot something I can eat for free. 

If not, at least have the integrity to admit that you are just a bloodthirsty killing enthusiast that doesn’t are what you shoot or why, you just want to kill something for the thrill of it. Or you are just lying to yourself and the world.

Despite what you claim, you ARE paying to shoot something you eat. Unless you get your cartridges for free and in fact your gun was free, then the meat you’re shooting isn’t for free. 
Why are you doing it? I’m not saying you’re a ‘ bloodthirsty killing enthusiast’ , but unless you’re a professional pest controller there’s no need for you to be shooting pigeons or anything else living, is there? 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Scully

[Walker570]

I have to say it Scully, there are a growing number of guns I see in the line who are there just to hit a target, I wouldn't go so far as to call them blood thirsty killing enthusiasts but their attitude to the game birds is all related to clay shooting and they don't care if the bird is 10yrds or a 100yrds they will shoot at it.  These are also often the ones who do not wish to take birds home to eat.  Unfortunately tradition is going out of the window as comments on various threads on here have shown.   Shaking hands, wearing a tie etc etc.,  It was always tradition that the bag would be displayed at the end of the day and the keeper would selected sufficient quslity birds to offer to the guns for the day. This rarely occurs today, which is a great pity.  Often keepers have to be reminded that maybe the guns would like a brace or two to take home.  There again there are those who make a special place for offering birds to the guns. Catton local to me bring out a selection of oven ready birds for the guns.  It can be done.,

[southeastpete]

6 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

Have you ever taken home 26 pheasants after a shoot, crowned them out, pared off the breasts, washed them, packaged them up and stored them?  Do you know how long that takes, and how creative you have to become in order to use the meat without wasting it?

It is indeed a pleasure to take home and use, or share with someone who gratefully receives it, your fair share of the bag.  What isn't a pleasure is to be obliged after every shoot day to take home a massively disproportionate amount of the shot game and personally ensure that it doesn't go to waste because some lazy ******** can't be bothered to do the right thing!  It becomes rather a chore.  I think I must have processed well over 100 birds last season.

If people don't think they've got any responsibility for putting the game they've shot into use correctly, they shouldn't be entitled to participate in shooting it!

It's not OK to be so apathetic and utterly dismissive of the issue of doing the correct thing.  Tradition is the foundation of the sport, and the traditions are upheld for a very good reason.  These aren't opinions of my own making - although I wholeheartedly support them - they are the traditions and standards which have been the fabric of game shooting for as long as it has been a sport.

As always, it will be the minority of lazy and selfish people who end up being the death of the sport.

I’ve never been on a paid shoot, but I used to shoot for farmers, one would let me shoot pheasants but not partridge, one would let me shoot partridge but not the pheasants. I still had some great rough shooting and decoying and all g with all the pigeons and rabbits I’d regularly have a shed full of hanging birds to process. And yes it can be a bit of a chore, but less of a chore than going to Tesco and paying £4 for a chicken raised in poor conditions...

 

[southeastpete]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Despite what you claim, you ARE paying to shoot something you eat. Unless you get your cartridges for free and in fact your gun was free, then the meat you’re shooting isn’t for free. 
Why are you doing it? I’m not saying you’re a ‘ bloodthirsty killing enthusiast’ , but unless you’re a professional pest controller there’s no need for you to be shooting pigeons or anything else living, is there? 

I’m shooting for free as I  i don’t pay for permission, or per pigeon. 

I take the  cost of the shells as granted, as whatever type of shooting you do you buy those. But for clays add another £20 on top for a mornings shoot. For pigeons, you don’t.

Although I suppose there is the costs of decoys etc....

 

As for why I shoot, yea I enjoy it. It’s not I enjoy the killing part, but I don’t mind it. I enjoy trying to be in the right place, and get your decoys right, and then the thrill as you’ve tricked a wild animal to come close enough for a shot, then stand up just the right time and boom, missed it 😂

 

whats a professional pest controller? How many pigeon shooters get paid, but do far more (crop) pest control than many?

I wanted fresh, free(ish), good quality meat to eat, the farmer wanted them off his crops. Win win situation. 

Does anyone NEED to shoot pigeons? We could all just eat American gmo bleach cleaned awful meat to be honest, or be vegans.

[London Best]

2 minutes ago, southeastpete said:

We could all just eat American gmo bleach cleaned awful meat to be honest, or be vegans.

That sounds as if you have never eaten any American meat.

[Jim Neal]

4 hours ago, Scully said:

Can I assume you rant to all those ‘lazy ********’ on your shoot the way you’re ranting on here? Can I also assume you’ve told them that if they don’t take some home they shouldn’t be entitled to shoot them? 
I pay to shoot, and on a good day I’ll maybe shoot just into double figures on our small stand one beat one syndicate, but I only take a brace or two home. 
Have just returned from a 300 bird day where the guns have paid around £1500 each for the privilege; they’ll maybe take a brace or two home, or maybe not. The choice is theirs. 
 

You can assume correctly on both of the above points

I'm not the shoot captain so the major ranting comes from him because I would be a little bit above my station to take the lead on that matter - but I'm not shy about reminding people.   The shoot captain, along with several others of us who are heavily involved in the running of the shoot, all unanimously share the same opinion on the matter.  Guns are told "You shot it, you take it away and deal with it" on every day.

We have rescinded the membership of a few guns for various reasons in recent years, part of which is the refusal to take birds away at the end of the day.

I find it a bit puzzling how you seem to think that the rich boys paying stupid money are less obliged than anyone else to take a share of the bag.  Yes it's a choice but it's also a tradition of the sport, and to refuse the offer of sharing the bag is a snub to all those involved not only in that particular day but the sport in general.  Just because they've parted with more money than I bought my last car for doesn't mean they're exempt.

This breed of shooter has been moulded by the increasing commercialisation of game shooting and I fear it's going to be the death of the sport.

[southeastpete]

12 hours ago, London Best said:

That sounds as if you have never eaten any American meat.

My best friend is an American, I have been and stayed several times to different parts of the east coast, sometimes for weeks at a time.

[Scully]

16 hours ago, Walker570 said:

I have to say it Scully, there are a growing number of guns I see in the line who are there just to hit a target, I wouldn't go so far as to call them blood thirsty killing enthusiasts but their attitude to the game birds is all related to clay shooting and they don't care if the bird is 10yrds or a 100yrds they will shoot at it.  These are also often the ones who do not wish to take birds home to eat.  Unfortunately tradition is going out of the window as comments on various threads on here have shown.   Shaking hands, wearing a tie etc etc.,  It was always tradition that the bag would be displayed at the end of the day and the keeper would selected sufficient quslity birds to offer to the guns for the day. This rarely occurs today, which is a great pity.  Often keepers have to be reminded that maybe the guns would like a brace or two to take home.  There again there are those who make a special place for offering birds to the guns. Catton local to me bring out a selection of oven ready birds for the guns.  It can be done.,

There possibly is a growing number of guns who just want to shoot, and pay good money to do so, with not really much thought to taking a brace home, but we live in different times now, and food is much easier to get hold of and in more plentiful supply and therefore more disposable than it was even a generation ago, but while it may not be progress, it's just the way it is. There are much tastier things to eat than pheasant or partridge. 

My first beating day this season on the BIG shoot, took place last Saturday and consisted of a team of guns who were all dressed from head to foot traditionally, and ranged in age from about 30ish to 60+. They were polite, chatty and out of a bag of 300 took a brace each of partridge and pheasant. 

My second day on the same shoot yesterday consisted of a team the oldest of which would be around 50. Some were dressed traditionally, others not, but it's their choice; there may be a dress code but it isn't enshrined in law. They paid £1500 each to be there for the day, and at £40 + per bird they can dress how they like. From a bag of again 300, some took birds home others didn't, it's their choice. 

On neither day did I see anyone shooting at either 10yd or 100yd birds. Most of us are there to 'hit a target'. 

[Scully]

16 hours ago, southeastpete said:

I’m shooting for free as I  i don’t pay for permission, or per pigeon. 

I take the  cost of the shells as granted, as whatever type of shooting you do you buy those. But for clays add another £20 on top for a mornings shoot. For pigeons, you don’t.

Although I suppose there is the costs of decoys etc....

 

As for why I shoot, yea I enjoy it. It’s not I enjoy the killing part, but I don’t mind it. I enjoy trying to be in the right place, and get your decoys right, and then the thrill as you’ve tricked a wild animal to come close enough for a shot, then stand up just the right time and boom, missed it 😂

 

whats a professional pest controller? How many pigeon shooters get paid, but do far more (crop) pest control than many?

I wanted fresh, free(ish), good quality meat to eat, the farmer wanted them off his crops. Win win situation. 

Does anyone NEED to shoot pigeons? We could all just eat American gmo bleach cleaned awful meat to be honest, or be vegans.

You're deluding yourself; you're paying to kill stuff for entertainment just like the rest of us. There is a 4 page thread on here regarding how much we spend each year on killing stuff for entertainment; we buy guns and cartridges so we can kill stuff; some of us pay to join syndicates so we can kill stuff. Some pay for let days at huge sums of money so we can kill stuff, others pay for flights to other countries and accommodation once there, so they can kill stuff for entertainment. 

I used to get paid in cartridges for shooting pigeons and rabbits, but I'm not a professional. I just like shooting, just like you and everyone else on here. 

[Scully]

13 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

You can assume correctly on both of the above points

I'm not the shoot captain so the major ranting comes from him because I would be a little bit above my station to take the lead on that matter - but I'm not shy about reminding people.   The shoot captain, along with several others of us who are heavily involved in the running of the shoot, all unanimously share the same opinion on the matter.  Guns are told "You shot it, you take it away and deal with it" on every day.

We have rescinded the membership of a few guns for various reasons in recent years, part of which is the refusal to take birds away at the end of the day.

I find it a bit puzzling how you seem to think that the rich boys paying stupid money are less obliged than anyone else to take a share of the bag.  Yes it's a choice but it's also a tradition of the sport, and to refuse the offer of sharing the bag is a snub to all those involved not only in that particular day but the sport in general.  Just because they've parted with more money than I bought my last car for doesn't mean they're exempt.

This breed of shooter has been moulded by the increasing commercialisation of game shooting and I fear it's going to be the death of the sport.

Can I also assume that once you've all shot a brace or two each then you call it a day? If not then why not? I too find it puzzling, given your objections to the way others do it, why you're shooting a surplus? You've already stated that it isn't a pleasure when you take home to process a disproportionate amount of birds, so you're obviously shooting more than you need. Why? Why don't you stop shooting once you've shot a couple of brace each, or enough for those who want a brace or two? 

I never once suggested that the 'rich boys paying stupid money' ( I think I can see where your resentment is coming from ) are less obliged to take a brace home, I said it was their choice. They're paying to shoot, what happens to the birds is the estates business. 

The death of our 'sport' will be the lack of tolerance by some shooters who harbour a burning resentment for those shooters who see and do things slightly differently, while at the same time turning a hypocritical blind eye when it's pointed out that they too are shooting for exactly the same reasons as those 'rich boys'. Weird eh? 

To rescind someone's membership because they refuse to take home a brace or two smacks of arrogance and ignorance. 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Scully

[clangerman]

i don’t care if people pay ten grand or ten bob its your responsibility as a sportsman to at least know the bag is used properly if you wish to simply walking away because you have paid shoot clays 

[grahamch]

am happy enough ti take game, duck etc. but dont have enough time to pluck and dress stuff. Most gets breasted and used for curry, stews etc. Would happily take plucked/oven/table ready game in bigger quantities than i do in the feather. 

[Scully]

17 minutes ago, clangerman said:

i don’t care if people pay ten grand or ten bob its your responsibility as a sportsman to at least know the bag is used properly if you wish to simply walking away because you have paid shoot clays 

Which is more or less what I said in my first post....as long as it’s all used I couldnt care less whether folk take a dozen brace or none; it’s their choice. 

[clangerman]

14 minutes ago, Scully said:

Which is more or less what I said in my first post....as long as it’s all used I couldnt care less whether folk take a dozen brace or none; it’s their choice. 

was getting worried about your point for a mo funny enough my pigeon man told me this morning one of his free sources of birds is now selling them so good news but not for him 

[old'un]

Its possible covid-19 has resulted in less birds being available to game dealers, does anyone know what they are paying for shot birds?

[Lloyd90]

I think American's have more justification for hunting.

 

They do a hell of a lot of land management and conservation to promote wildlife. They go out and have programme's and wildlife biologists that enhance the environment and they try to promote wild bird breeding and sustaining numbers through habitat creation and support. 

 

As much as we try to justify it, sticking 1000's of birds down in a confined area, driving them over a line of guns who will shoot hundreds of shots, pride themselves on making this process very difficult and challenging, and wing a number of birds alongside those dropped, and then say it's all ok because we eat the birds afterwards, just sounds a bit mad when you break it down. 

 

Big bag driven shooting will be the end of shooting in the U.K. 

 

Say what you will to justify it. I admire it for what it is, very good SHOOTING, but its got almost nothing to do with hunting. 

Hunting would be a small group or one man, a handful of dogs, out in the countryside, shooting walked up birds and a mix of wild game, taking a mixed bag, and everyone sharing a meal at the end of the day with the game harvested. 

 

 

If offered a space on a commercial shoot, or access to walked up land where I could regularly shoot say a mix of pheasant, rabbit, duck, wildfowl and woodcock etc, I would take the walked up game every single damn time. 

A few head of game for the pot. I can't see the U.K. going over to this setup as they can't charge the large amounts of money that can change hands on a commercial driven shoot. 

[London Best]

Big bag shooting has existed privately in U.K. without problems for a long time. I suspect it is the fact that in the last 35ish years it has become commercial which has highlighted the issue.

[Lloyd90]

28 minutes ago, London Best said:

Big bag shooting has existed privately in U.K. without problems for a long time. I suspect it is the fact that in the last 35ish years it has become commercial which has highlighted the issue.

It absolutely has, but I doubt back in the past they tried to justify it by saying it was all about eating the birds. 
 

It’s simply about the fact that it is good sport and challenging shooting. 

[Scully]

14 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

I think American's have more justification for hunting.

 

They do a hell of a lot of land management and conservation to promote wildlife. They go out and have programme's and wildlife biologists that enhance the environment and they try to promote wild bird breeding and sustaining numbers through habitat creation and support. 

 

As much as we try to justify it, sticking 1000's of birds down in a confined area, driving them over a line of guns who will shoot hundreds of shots, pride themselves on making this process very difficult and challenging, and wing a number of birds alongside those dropped, and then say it's all ok because we eat the birds afterwards, just sounds a bit mad when you break it down. 

 

Big bag driven shooting will be the end of shooting in the U.K. 

 

Say what you will to justify it. I admire it for what it is, very good SHOOTING, but its got almost nothing to do with hunting. 

Hunting would be a small group or one man, a handful of dogs, out in the countryside, shooting walked up birds and a mix of wild game, taking a mixed bag, and everyone sharing a meal at the end of the day with the game harvested. 

 

 

If offered a space on a commercial shoot, or access to walked up land where I could regularly shoot say a mix of pheasant, rabbit, duck, wildfowl and woodcock etc, I would take the walked up game every single damn time. 

A few head of game for the pot. I can't see the U.K. going over to this setup as they can't charge the large amounts of money that can change hands on a commercial driven shoot. 

Not just the Americans; most of Europe has a tradition of hunting, whereas we have never had any tradition of hunting. The only hunting which has ever taken place here has been done by the wealthy landowners and so called aristocracy, the rest of us were merely poachers, and remain so to this day. 
People ( mostly shooters ) can condemn driven shooting all they like, but traditionally since the manufacture of guns and specifically shot, it’s all we’ve had......unless you want to include hunting foxes on horseback with hounds, and there again that was only the aristocracy. 
Traditionally huge bags of ALL species were shot on estates ( some almost to extinction ) countrywide during the shooting season. 
To be perfectly honest I enjoy our rough shoot more than I enjoy the small syndicate I’m a member of. We just ramble through the woods and hedges, and down by the river, and rarely shoot more than a dozen brace, but if it weren’t for the big business that is driven shooting, the pheasant wouldn’t be there; they certainly didn’t exist in this country before driven shooting became popular, so I can’t understand why they would if it ceased to exist. 
If driven shooting goes so do our shooting organisations.....ask them what their No1 priority is; it certainly isn’t rough shooting, nor decoying, nor a couple of blokes doing a spot of ferreting.
Driven shooting is BIG business in the UK, and around it has grown an industry which attracts the likes of you and me.
Shooters keep harping on about ‘tradition’ , well as far as driven shooting goes, it IS tradition, and traditionally they shot a lot more species than we do today, and on some days shot a damn sight more. 

Antis may use large bags as a stick with which to beat us, but can anyone pick a number which they honestly believe antis would find acceptable? 
It’s nothing to do with shooting, it’s class war, and once again, no matter what you think of the ruling classes/social elite/landed gentry/aristocracy or whatever you want to call them, all this started with them and THEIR tradition of hunting, and if they go down so do we as far as shooting goes. 
We need to be careful what we wish for. 

[Lloyd90]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

Not just the Americans; most of Europe has a tradition of hunting, whereas we have never had any tradition of hunting. The only hunting which has ever taken place here has been done by the wealthy landowners and so called aristocracy, the rest of us were merely poachers, and remain so to this day. 
People ( mostly shooters ) can condemn driven shooting all they like, but traditionally since the manufacture of guns and specifically shot, it’s all we’ve had......unless you want to include hunting foxes on horseback with hounds, and there again that was only the aristocracy. 
Traditionally huge bags of ALL species were shot on estates ( some almost to extinction ) countrywide during the shooting season. 
To be perfectly honest I enjoy our rough shoot more than I enjoy the small syndicate I’m a member of. We just ramble through the woods and hedges, and down by the river, and rarely shoot more than a dozen brace, but if it weren’t for the big business that is driven shooting, the pheasant wouldn’t be there; they certainly didn’t exist in this country before driven shooting became popular, so I can’t understand why they would if it ceased to exist. 
If driven shooting goes so do our shooting organisations.....ask them what their No1 priority is; it certainly isn’t rough shooting, nor decoying, nor a couple of blokes doing a spot of ferreting.
Driven shooting is BIG business in the UK, and around it has grown an industry which attracts the likes of you and me.
Shooters keep harping on about ‘tradition’ , well as far as driven shooting goes, it IS tradition, and traditionally they shot a lot more species than we do today, and on some days shot a damn sight more. 

Antis may use large bags as a stick with which to beat us, but can anyone pick a number which they honestly believe antis would find acceptable? 
It’s nothing to do with shooting, it’s class war, and once again, no matter what you think of the ruling classes/social elite/landed gentry/aristocracy or whatever you want to call them, all this started with them and THEIR tradition of hunting, and if they go down so do we as far as shooting goes. 
We need to be careful what we wish for. 

 

 

Fair points made there Scully. 

 

I do not wish to see the demise of Driven shooting, I merely think we should call it what it is, shooting for sport, not pretending that if the gun's don't take a couple birds away with them then they shouldn't be allowed to go. 

The guns aren't there because they want a few pheasants to eat. 

[Scully]

1 minute ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

 

 

 

I do not wish to see the demise of Driven shooting, I merely think we should call it what it is, shooting for sport, not pretending that if the gun's don't take a couple birds away with them then they shouldn't be allowed to go. 

The guns aren't there because they want a few pheasants to eat. 

Exactly! This is what some people can’t seem to get their heads around; it isn’t taking a brace or two home for the pot, like you say, it’s shooting for sport on a commercial basis. 
Even those who participate in driven shoots, but not on a commercial basis can’t justify it as a few brace for the pot; they’re doing it for the ‘sport’, otherwise they would stop shooting the moment they had enough birds for each gun to take a brace or two home. Six guns that’s a maximum of 24 birds.....which incidentally, our little syndicate actually struggles to achieve late season. 😕
 

[old'un]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

 

Fair points made there Scully. 

 

I do not wish to see the demise of Driven shooting, I merely think we should call it what it is, shooting for sport, not pretending that if the gun's don't take a couple birds away with them then they shouldn't be allowed to go. 

The guns aren't there because they want a few pheasants to eat. 

Mate of mine used to keeper a big estate in Staffordshire, most of the shoots were by invite only where the guns were wealthy business men, landed gentry and a few lords, plus the odd celebrity, it was all about putting on a good show of birds for the guests and dinner back at the big house, after the shoot the beaters and picker-ups were offered a brace and the rest went to the game dealers, the average bag for the shoot was 300+ birds although there were two let days per season with bags of 500+.

In all the years I helped on the shoot only a couple of the guns ever came to look at what was on the game cart, none of the guns were interested in taking any birds, they were there for one thing, the shooting.