Newbie to this Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dave-G said: figgy: You also make good points: my thoughts are why the trails were so short in my youth. These days they are still there long after the aircraft has gone from sight. Memory is a strange thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Memory is a strange thing Agreed - sad as it was I recall trying to guess how many plane lengths the trails remained in sight for and concluded in my childish naivety that they could stretch to maybe fifty times the length of the plane. Maybe I spent more time skygazing than other kids will admit to, I was a loner and still am to some extent. Edited December 30, 2020 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Two things Firstly I think your confusing vortices which cause ‘wake’, and condensation formed from the wonderful world of compressibility and combustion working an engine. ( you do realise that piston engines also leave contrails - look at old bomber footage) Secondly, not all clouds are ‘liquid’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Two things Firstly I think your confusing vortices which cause ‘wake’, and condensation formed from the wonderful world of compressibility and combustion working an engine. ( you do realise that piston engines also leave contrails - look at old bomber footage) Secondly, not all clouds are ‘liquid’ Good points - Its fair to say that the distant views we see from the ground cloud that issue. However I'm not the one putting forwards the theory the persistent trails are from wing tips, though I have tried to query those theories. Its been implied by some sources that the chemicals/materials are sprayed into the engine exhaust streams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 The contrails can come from jet engines or wing tips. Squeezing and heating the air changes the water content. Every now and then an AWACS plane will circle at 30000 feet typically circling between Norwich and Peterborough. On a fine day the police get lots of worried phone calls from people worried about the massive white circles in the sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Jaymo said: Two things Firstly I think your confusing vortices which cause ‘wake’, and condensation formed from the wonderful world of compressibility and combustion working an engine. ( you do realise that piston engines also leave contrails - look at old bomber footage) Secondly, not all clouds are ‘liquid’ Good coverup story 😊 we all know that you are up there spreading stuff about 😂😂😂 these other clouds are they the ones with a silver lining 🤔😊😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Dave-G said: I'm thinking sooner or later we'll find there is something going on that may not be as sinister as some people make out. Maybe something as questionable as to block satellite imaging. That's where you stop and ask the question, Why do you think something is going on? One step back and you are happy with the idea that they form naturally from the aircraft, but you aren't applying science to it, what height, temperature moisture content wind direction etc We've just come back from a great walk, we could see the snow cloud heading towards us from the north, thick heavy and black looking with precipitation on the edge, no discernible wind where we were walking, yet when the snow started it was coming from the west and after the snow stopped the golf course flags were indicating that the wind was coming from the south. I could construct a theory as to why the clouds came from the north the snow from the west and the wind changed to the south afterwards, but it was all to do with lots of simple scientific principles, that interact together in complex ways. In the end it was a lovely walk despite the cold and snow, in fact it probably enhanced it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, Old farrier said: Good coverup story 😊 we all know that you are up there spreading stuff about 😂😂😂 these other clouds are they the ones with a silver lining 🤔😊😊 You got me Guv. Next you will be telling me I’m dropping ‘Blue ice’ ????? TC, your confusing your Vortices with your Con Trails Here is a link that actually explains it rather well.... ( from the speed read I e just conducted- will have a thorough check when the kids and I have finished playing ‘Simpsons cluedo’ https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-the-cloudy-white-stuff-coming-off-of-fighters’-jet-wings-when-they-turn-at-high-speeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jaymo said: You got me Guv. Next you will be telling me I’m dropping ‘Blue ice’ ????? TC, your confusing your Vortices with your Con Trails Here is a link that actually explains it rather well.... ( from the speed read I e just conducted- will have a thorough check when the kids and I have finished playing ‘Simpsons cluedo’ https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-the-cloudy-white-stuff-coming-off-of-fighters’-jet-wings-when-they-turn-at-high-speeds Careful, that simpsons cluedo is just a device created by them to prevent you from marching on the great ice wall guarded by nasa with the aliens and discovering the world is as flat as a pancake and you'd fall of the edge. The contrails are just spreading tiny micro chips so they can make you play the cluedo. As good as any I've heard....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, henry d said: That's where you stop and ask the question, Why do you think something is going on? One step back and you are happy with the idea that they form naturally from the aircraft, but you aren't applying science to it, what height, temperature moisture content wind direction etc We've just come back from a great walk, we could see the snow cloud heading towards us from the north, thick heavy and black looking with precipitation on the edge, no discernible wind where we were walking, yet when the snow started it was coming from the west and after the snow stopped the golf course flags were indicating that the wind was coming from the south. I could construct a theory as to why the clouds came from the north the snow from the west and the wind changed to the south afterwards, but it was all to do with lots of simple scientific principles, that interact together in complex ways. In the end it was a lovely walk despite the cold and snow, in fact it probably enhanced it. Oh god Henry. I hate this thread as here will come a time when I actually have to spend some time and actually compose a sensible piece and not just be Ditchie’s bitch I’m a silver thong. In general, as you ascend, then the wind will veer from what’s encountered on the ground - In extreme, it could be southerly on the ground and westerly at altitude. Influences such as orographic and pressure differential have their little say so too ( as does other factors). Anyways, I think it might be Homer Simpson with the plutonium rod in the Kwik-e mart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 29 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Oh god Henry. I hate this thread as here will come a time when I actually have to spend some time and actually compose a sensible piece and not just be Ditchie’s bitch I’m a silver thong. In general, as you ascend, then the wind will veer from what’s encountered on the ground - In extreme, it could be southerly on the ground and westerly at altitude. Influences such as orographic and pressure differential have their little say so too ( as does other factors). Anyways, I think it might be Homer Simpson with the plutonium rod in the Kwik-e mart Nah, "they" have made the clouds porous with different shaped holes in them depending on what they want them to do, today the snow was extruded into little paper airplanes and that's what happened! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 38 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Oh god Henry. I hate this thread as here will come a time when I actually have to spend some time and actually compose a sensible piece and not just be Ditchie’s bitch I’m a silver thong. In general, as you ascend, then the wind will veer from what’s encountered on the ground - In extreme, it could be southerly on the ground and westerly at altitude. Influences such as orographic and pressure differential have their little say so too ( as does other factors). Anyways, I think it might be Homer Simpson with the plutonium rod in the Kwik-e mart I'm familiar with that aspect which sometimes enables balloonists to travel around the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jaymo said: You got me Guv. Next you will be telling me I’m dropping ‘Blue ice’ ????? TC, your confusing your Vortices with your Con Trails Here is a link that actually explains it rather well.... ( from the speed read I e just conducted- will have a thorough check when the kids and I have finished playing ‘Simpsons cluedo’ https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-the-cloudy-white-stuff-coming-off-of-fighters’-jet-wings-when-they-turn-at-high-speeds That's taking the ice cold wee lol. And how long does the cloudy white stuff persist after that aircraft turned? I don't dispute what comes off wing tips by the way - never have if anyone looks. What you guys don't seem to be answering is why we never saw serious amounts of white trails leaving loads of white lines in the sky say 60 years ago, but almost any day with a clear sky they are all over the place now. Something has changed and I'm not the one claiming its ice despite being open to suggestions it could be. Could be doesn't prove it for me. For any oldies not familiar with what is being discussed here - think back to when you were kids. Did you see sky's like this? The thicker trails have started to thin out and spread and the tightest ones are the most recent. years ago they would all have gone while you could still see the aircraft they came from. Edited December 30, 2020 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dave-G said: That's taking the ice cold wee lol. And how long does the cloudy white stuff persist after that aircraft turned? I don't dispute what comes off wing tips by the way - never have if anyone looks. What you guys don't seem to be answering is why we never saw serious amounts of white trails leaving loads of white lines in the sky say 60 years ago, but almost any day with a clear sky they are all over the place now. Something has changed and I'm not the one claiming its ice despite being open to suggestions it could be. Could be doesn't prove it for me. For any oldies not familiar with what is being discussed here - think back to when you were kids. Did you see sky's like this? The thicker trails have started to thin out and spread and the tightest ones are the most recent. years ago they would all have gone while you could still see the aircraft they came from. So what do YOU think they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Dave-G said: That's taking the ice cold wee lol. And how long does the cloudy white stuff persist after that aircraft turned? I don't dispute what comes off wing tips by the way - never have if anyone looks. What you guys don't seem to be answering is why we never saw serious amounts of white trails leaving loads of white lines in the sky say 60 years ago, but almost any day with a clear sky that are all over the place now. Something has changed and I'm not the one claiming its ice despite being open to suggestions it could be. Could be doesn't prove it for me. For any oldies not familiar with what is being discussed here - think back to when you were kids. Did you see sky's like this? The thicker trails have started to thin out and spread and the tightest ones are the most recent. years ago they would all have gone while you could still see the aircraft they came from. Probably because 60 years ago you were spending more time exploring the opposite sex, rather than hazing skywards. But also, Commercial Jet aircraft hasn’t come to full fruition then and Air travel wasn’t the level it is today. You have to remember that a lot of those ‘old birds’ were not pressurised and flew below 10000’ in milder air, the bombers of WW2 guys were using supplemental oxygen and hence, flying higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Commercial air travel 60 years ago was a rarity, even 40 years ago it was still a relative rarity. In that time engine development has also moved on massively where engines have a far greater compression ratio and air/fuel mix so output a load more water vapour than they did even 20 years ago. So more water vapour equals more sublimation to ice crystals ergo more contrails. Commercial aircraft also fly higher than they did 60 years ago, temperatures are lower the higher you go therefore the contrails will persist longer and be subject to greater dispersion, ergo spread out fluffy contrails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Because 60 years ago I doubt the sky looked like this, bearing in mind aviation traffic is at much reduced numbers to usual! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Well as ever even though it has been explained at length, some people just want to believe it is something underhand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Scully said: So what do YOU think they are? I'm open to the claims they are Chemtrails google please: super lightweight dust that is squirted into the engine exhaust stream that will float on rising heat currents until the heat has gone. The material reputedly contains aluminium dust and microballoons plus other stuff that reflects sunlight heat away from earth to help reduce global warming. I'm not swearing its true - but I'm not in denial either. I am open minded about the topic and believe there is no smoke without fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Well as ever even though it has been explained at length, some people just want to believe it is something underhand! 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Its all pixie dust..... 2 minutes ago, Dave-G said: I'm open to the claims they are Chemtrails google please: super lightweight dust that is squirted into the engine exhaust stream that will float on rising heat currents until the heat has gone. The material reputedly contains aluminium dust and microballoons plus other stuff that reflects sunlight heat away from earth to help reduce global warming. I'm not swearing its true - but I'm not in denial either. I am open minded about the topic and believe there is no smoke without fire. God help us... Now let me send you some links to the Matrix films as I’m convinced we’re all living in a virtual existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Jaymo said: 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Its all pixie dust..... Just as some sensible suggestions were coming forth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Gordon Bennett! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Jaymo said: 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Its all pixie dust..... And microballoons, don't forget them. I wonder if they have microbaskets suspended from them from which the Pixie's sprinkle their dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, grrclark said: And microballoons, don't forget them. I wonder if they have microbaskets suspended from them from which the Pixie's sprinkle their dust. https://www.google.com/search?q=microballoons&oq=microballoons&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60.6425j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Dave-G said: https://www.google.com/search?q=microballoons&oq=microballoons&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60.6425j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Do you think they are releasing resin thickener to stiffen up the clouds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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