udderlyoffroad Posted March 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 17 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Whats the big deal with wearing a mask? Its not a big deal. It is a big deal; it's a restriction on personal freedom. 18 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Just put it on and stop behaving like my mate who refuses to wear one "on principle". Assuming your comment was aimed at me, I'll thank you not to conflate me with your mate. At no point have I said that I refused to wear one, or even made a scene of putting one on. I was in the classy establishment that is Aldi Weston Super Mare last night, and put one as I was walking through the car park, I didn't even break my stride. But 'put one on, it's for your own good' is not how you talk to adults, it might work on your 5 year old, but it is not acceptable when talking to people who vote for you, there needs to be some justification. 23 minutes ago, Vince Green said: I remember the same sort of idiots going on about seat belts and crash helmets Poor analogy Well, to be honest, seat belts were made compulsory in 1985, I think, so given that at the time, I had barely mastered how to use a potty, I don't remember the "I'd rather be thrown clear" crowd. But: Cars need to be designed from the ground up to support 3-point belts, and people need to be 'trained' to use them. Also, the data on crash survivability with/without is fairly clear. The advantages clearly outweighing the disadvantages for (3-point) seat belts. That is definitely not the case with masks. If you were being generous, you could at best say "case not proven"... Actually, since you're so happy to wear one, now you're used to it, how do you feel about having to wear one now, forever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: Assuming your comment was aimed at me, Actually they weren't aimed at you at all, if they were I would have tagged you but why are you so wound up about it? its only a flipping mask. It occupies less than one percent of one percent of my thought process. And in truth I find it quite handy because I don't feel the need to shave before popping out to get my paper Edited March 18, 2021 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 6 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: You can't even acknowledge that the advice was different before. But now you follow it, only you don't, with your rather laissez-faire interpretation of how disposable masks work ("I've got 5 on the go") could quite literally be killing granny. Probably. My point is, you espouse on public forum that masks work, that they are no trouble at all to wear, why isn't everyone doing so, then immediately proceed to tell us that you're not following the rules, as you perceive what you do to be 'good enough'?? Moral equivalence much? The temp masks we've been given are good for 8hrs , I've got one in three separate jackets, one in the car and one in my overalls, so it's pretty hard to not have one to hand when needed. So how am I not following any rules? For me, and my family and friends masks , common sense and good hygiene has worked, lads at work have caught it, all been fine but they haven't always followed the rules. 6 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: dread to think what your idea of 'real restrictions' are, but I was born in a free country. I haven't seen my family in over a year. That's is real restrictions. Why? We could meet outdoors, in gardens, eat out to help out, it hasn't been a continuous 12 month lockdown, it's not been great but I'm sure there are plenty of countries where day to day living is far far worse than being told stay at home, and wear a mask when shopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: It is a big deal; it's a restriction on personal freedom. no such thing as personal freedom, not in reality. We all have responsibilities Edited March 18, 2021 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: but I was born in a free country. Really? what country was that? You should have stayed there Because it certainly wasn't any country I know the original expression "its a free country" meant America. Which is itself ironic Edited March 18, 2021 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted March 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 13 hours ago, Mice! said: Why? We could meet outdoors, in gardens, eat out to help out, it hasn't been a continuous 12 month lockdown, it's not been great but I'm sure there are plenty of countries where day to day living is far far worse than being told stay at home, and wear a mask when shopping. We've been living under restrictions now for 12 months. You seem to be grateful for the fact they were, temporarily eased last summer? Not good enough, by a long chalk. If I may get personal, it seems to me your life is just fine living with these restrictions. Your personal situation, for whatever reason that we don't need to go into, means you have your family close by, you can see them over the fence as it were? Not all of us are in that fortunate position. Do you really lack the empathy to see, or even acknowledge, that other people are really suffering under these restrictions? And the 'there are plenty of countries that have it worse' argument is such bunkum I don't even know where to begin. 12 hours ago, Vince Green said: no such thing as personal freedom, not in reality. We all have responsibilities Were you bunking off school when they covered this? Rights and responsibilities, and the rule of law are pre-requisites to living in a free country. My worry, and the original point of starting this thread, is that because there is no end in sight for these restrictions, the rule of law as we know it, will fundamentally change soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 19 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: 'put one on, it's for your own good' I think you have, or I have, got it wrong I was under the impression that we wear masks for others, to stop us spreading the virus if we cough, sneeze or touch our mouth/nose when in shops etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 I find the mask debate a bit of a distraction. If you want to wear one, wear one but if you don’t, don’t - there’s a myriad of exemptions out there to be claimed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted March 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Mungler said: I find the mask debate a bit of a distraction. Same, they annoy the hell out of me, are of questionable value, but I still put one on and don't make a scene - except on PW obviously! What I started this thread about was to ask what happens when the restrictions don't get lifted. 5 hours ago, henry d said: I think you have, or I have, got it wrong I was under the impression that we wear masks for others Hoist' by my own petard! (not 'hung') Yes, to be pedantic, it's for the benefit of other people, not yourself. But I was objecting to the "do as you're told, and don't ask questions" sentiment of another poster, as it's fine if you're dealing with a recalcitrant child below a certain age, but not a sound basis for government imposing diktats on the population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 7 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: Same, they annoy the hell out of me, are of questionable value, but I still put one on and don't make a scene - except on PW obviously! What I started this thread about was to ask what happens when the restrictions don't get lifted. Hoist' by my own petard! (not 'hung') Yes, to be pedantic, it's for the benefit of other people, not yourself. But I was objecting to the "do as you're told, and don't ask questions" sentiment of another poster, as it's fine if you're dealing with a recalcitrant child below a certain age, but not a sound basis for government imposing diktats on the population. I totally get some of your points on this thread. Even if masks do help to prevent virus spread, as a "free" society risk of harm is always weighed against individual freedoms or we'd all be kept in doors, required to wear visible id cards, motor vehicles would be banned and so on. I personally don't mind wearing a mask in the short term for the chance it might help prevent the spread and am required by law to do so anyway which makes my thought on the subject a mute point. But, where will all this end, as it appears the vaccine alone will not defeat this virus and it appears it might be with us for ever more, which leads to the question, what measures is the government if any will they use/keep in the future, because I can't see people complying with mask wearing and enforced house arrest for evermore even if it does save lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted March 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 Well folks, we're now many weeks into 'data not dates' - the data is strongly in favour of lifting the restrictions, by any metric, and still no sign of movement. No, they're sticking rigidly to the dates. I hope all of you "I'm alright Jacks" are comfortable with the ongoing misery these restrictions are causing, especially on the young. Less seriously: Boris' latest unguarded remarks on yet more hoops the hospitality industry will have to jump through (potentially) surely are the death kneel for the pub as we know it. I can promise one thing: I'm not going to a pub if we have to wear a mask I'm not going to a pub if I have to book an appointment I'm not going to a pub if I have to wend my way round an incomprenhensible one-way system just to pee. I like table service, but that model isn't sustainable, nor is it what the British pub is. I confess I'm totally baffled by the war on the British boozer from the establishment. The data clearly showed they were not infection vectors, yet they've come in for the most draconian measures ever. Could it be that we've put fully-paid-up-members of the temperance society in senior public health roles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangolin Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 21 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said: Well folks, we're now many weeks into 'data not dates' - the data is strongly in favour of lifting the restrictions, by any metric, and still no sign of movement. No, they're sticking rigidly to the dates. I hope all of you "I'm alright Jacks" are comfortable with the ongoing misery these restrictions are causing, especially on the young. Less seriously: Boris' latest unguarded remarks on yet more hoops the hospitality industry will have to jump through (potentially) surely are the death kneel for the pub as we know it. I can promise one thing: I'm not going to a pub if we have to wear a mask I'm not going to a pub if I have to book an appointment I'm not going to a pub if I have to wend my way round an incomprenhensible one-way system just to pee. I like table service, but that model isn't sustainable, nor is it what the British pub is. I confess I'm totally baffled by the war on the British boozer from the establishment. The data clearly showed they were not infection vectors, yet they've come in for the most draconian measures ever. Could it be that we've put fully-paid-up-members of the temperance society in senior public health roles? The outdoor pub rule is ridiculous, you sit outside in a closed off marquee that is essentially indoors but not as comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Pangolin said: The outdoor pub rule is ridiculous, you sit outside in a closed off marquee that is essentially indoors but not as comfortable. But the horizontal rain washes away the virus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 I think the Vine show on R2 is guilty of just as much negative conjecture as much of our media. There was news of the possibility of vaccination passports for pubs and hospitality establishments, but the entire suggestion is simply ridiculous, as every pub landlord pointed out to him in response. If they can’t open up without restrictions then there isn’t much point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 done some home brew gluten free beer should be ready for easter Ritchies Simply 40 Pint Beer Kit - Gluten Free Pale Ale (brew2bottle.co.uk) im not a pub guy never have been food and a pint ok a skinfull no as for pub passports its unworkable media bs and hype will never happen common sense lacking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 Pretty sure Mikhail in Moscow already has these post free for £10.00 a time? Any language you like too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangolin Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 (edited) On 26/03/2021 at 14:51, udderlyoffroad said: Well folks, we're now many weeks into 'data not dates' - the data is strongly in favour of lifting the restrictions, by any metric, and still no sign of movement. No, they're sticking rigidly to the dates. I hope all of you "I'm alright Jacks" are comfortable with the ongoing misery these restrictions are causing, especially on the young. Im surprised a few on here havent chirped up, berating people about breaking the rules 2 days early and seeing their friends this weekend 'putting lives at risk'. Edited March 27, 2021 by Pangolin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 On 26/03/2021 at 19:40, Scully said: I think the Vine show on R2 is guilty of just as much negative conjecture as much of our media. There was news of the possibility of vaccination passports for pubs and hospitality establishments, but the entire suggestion is simply ridiculous, as every pub landlord pointed out to him in response. If they can’t open up without restrictions then there isn’t much point. Possibly, but its also possible more would go to pubs etc knowing the people standing beside them had a vaccine. Vaccine or not it will be a long time before they will be opening without any restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 43 minutes ago, ordnance said: Possibly, but its also possible more would go to pubs etc knowing the people standing beside them had a vaccine. Vaccine or not it will be a long time before they will be opening without any restrictions. Local pub can afford to sit it out; she has said if there’s restrictions then it’s not worth it. One reason being, those who do come who won’t comply with restrictions will put off those who want to comply with restrictions, just like last time they were open with restrictions. She isn’t prepared to police it, and she can’t see why her staff should have to, so she’ll stay closed until then. Speaking for myself, either the vaccine is our way out or it isn’t. Those who are vaccinated can get on with their lives, those who aren’t will simply have to take their chances. It’s not complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangolin Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, ordnance said: Possibly, but its also possible more would go to pubs etc knowing the people standing beside them had a vaccine. Vaccine or not it will be a long time before they will be opening without any restrictions. Well if they keep their word (which I doubt) then it should be without restriction in June. As for the vac passports....just like David Davis expained to them, coercion and discrimination is illegal, especially for something as low risk as covid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangolin Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 23 minutes ago, Scully said: Local pub can afford to sit it out; she has said if there’s restrictions then it’s not worth it. One reason being, those who do come who won’t comply with restrictions will put off those who want to comply with restrictions, just like last time they were open with restrictions. She isn’t prepared to police it, and she can’t see why her staff should have to, so she’ll stay closed until then. Speaking for myself, either the vaccine is our way out or it isn’t. Those who are vaccinated can get on with their lives, those who aren’t will simply have to take their chances. It’s not complicated. If they can afford to stay closed then why not, pubs wont be fun for a while anyway. Shes right about her staff having to police it, Ive heard a few landlords and pub chain bosses say the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, Pangolin said: If they can afford to stay closed then why not, pubs wont be fun for a while anyway. Shes right about her staff having to police it, Ive heard a few landlords and pub chain bosses say the same. Come the first week in June, my home town with its ca population of 3.5k will be invaded ( there is no other term ) by upwards of 20k of the travelling fraternity, and each day of the weekend thus will swell to around 40k. All the surrounding villages and towns within a 12 mile vicinity have swelled numbers also due to the same event. All the shops, hotels, pubs, restaurants, caravan sites and B&B’s will be swamped for as long as they are open. The police can’t police those areas which they are already responsible for, let alone police any or all restrictions added by Covid restrictions like mask wearing or social distancing. It just isn’t going to happen. Add to these establishments all the kids from babies to twenty odd year olds who don’t need the jab? Well, you can all come to your own conclusions. This is just one event. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangolin Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 30 minutes ago, Scully said: Come the first week in June, my home town with its ca population of 3.5k will be invaded ( there is no other term ) by upwards of 20k of the travelling fraternity, and each day of the weekend thus will swell to around 40k. All the surrounding villages and towns within a 12 mile vicinity have swelled numbers also due to the same event. All the shops, hotels, pubs, restaurants, caravan sites and B&B’s will be swamped for as long as they are open. The police can’t police those areas which they are already responsible for, let alone police any or all restrictions added by Covid restrictions like mask wearing or social distancing. It just isn’t going to happen. Add to these establishments all the kids from babies to twenty odd year olds who don’t need the jab? Well, you can all come to your own conclusions. This is just one event. 🙂 Appleby? Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, Pangolin said: Appleby? Haha 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scully said: Come the first week in June, my home town with its ca population of 3.5k will be invaded ( there is no other term ) by upwards of 20k of the travelling fraternity, and each day of the weekend thus will swell to around 40k. All the surrounding villages and towns within a 12 mile vicinity have swelled numbers also due to the same event. All the shops, hotels, pubs, restaurants, caravan sites and B&B’s will be swamped for as long as they are open. The police can’t police those areas which they are already responsible for, let alone police any or all restrictions added by Covid restrictions like mask wearing or social distancing. It just isn’t going to happen. Add to these establishments all the kids from babies to twenty odd year olds who don’t need the jab? Well, you can all come to your own conclusions. This is just one event. 🙂 .....but by the first of June they will all have been vaccinated, won't they 🤣 🤞 Or at least, you might be Edited March 28, 2021 by amateur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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