Glamorous Usula E.U. Babe

[Mungler]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The reason I disagree with this is that whilst fit younger people are unlikely to get seriously ill, and will possibly not even know they have it ........ there are two risks;

1. That they will spread it to someone who has been vaccinated - and is vulnerable (for whatever reason, age, health) - where the vaccine hasn't been effective.  This is admittedly a small risk, but not a zero risk.
2. The more cases we get - the more mutations will happen.  Sooner or later, a mutation will emerge that evades the vaccine - and we will need a new vaccine.  This can be done, but is expensive and takes time - and might easily result in all sorts of 'control' measures being reintroduced (rightly or wrongly).

Therefore - I believe that it is highly desirable and in everyone's interests, both health and economic that as many (of all risk levels) people as possible are vaccinated.  When the evasive mutation does come along (as it will), we will have a lower overall level and that should give us more time to roll out a vaccine to suit the new mutation(s).

I’d get all the fit under 40’s together in a mass chickenpox like party.

Seriously though, everyone I know under 40 has already had it and it didn’t scratch them.

More to the point, if the vaccine supply chain goes down the swanny then this is something we will just have to get our heads round.

.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Mungler

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Mungler said:

Seriously though, everyone I know under 40 has already had it and it didn’t scratch them.

I accept that and whilst it isn't the case for all of the under 40s I know (only a few have knowingly had it), none have been seriously ill either.  But for the reasons given, I still think it is desirable that they are vaccinated.

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

- I wouldn’t bother giving it to fit under 40’s.

people go mental over being proven wrong (remoaners).

Its not about the recipients and the effect it has on them. Its about the virus, the more times it jumps from host to host the more likely we are to get mutations.  

Have you notice that a lot of remoaner types seem to be highly critical of the Government's handling of the pandemic. I am thinking particular about the perennial idiot James O'Brian on LBC. How he hasn't been sued for defamation I will never understand.

I think the Government has done a great job all things considered. It was all uncharted waters, reacting to events beyond their control. Sure they got things wrong but calling them scumbags, crooks and liars?  Rebelling against every directive, criticising the police at every turn for only doing their duty.

[Gordon R]

The pandemic handling could only have been improved by putting Jimmy Krankie is sole charge. We could have benefitted from her regular new hairstyles, achieved without outside help - obviously. Blunders would have been dismissed as buying into conspiracy theories or merely forgotten - it seems to be the in thing.

I thought Boris was only really good enough to deliver Brexit, but despite some hiccups, he has been far better than most people predicted.

[ordnance]

6 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

I accept that and whilst it isn't the case for all of the under 40s I know (only a few have knowingly had it), none have been seriously ill either.  But for the reasons given, I still think it is desirable that they are vaccinated.

Not yet, but in the future ?

• Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.

Edited March 19, 2021 by ordnance

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, ordnance said:

Not yet, but in the future ?

I can't of course say what the future will hold, but that is the situation at the present time.  Lots of us have smoked, been exposed to asbestos, and many other hazards - but only some of us will get ill from those past events.

As stated in my posts, I am in favour of everyone being vaccinated.

[old man]

12 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

The Fourth Reich?

Sadly, was there ever much doubt to me really, has always been about domination?

 

[Mungler]

Calm down everyone. The point I am making is that it is looking highly unlikely that we will have sufficient stocks of vaccines to do the under 40’s and as such we need to plan and adjust.

I hope the government has clocked what’s going on right now and someone has plans to quickly roll out our own ability (end to end) to manufacture and produce vaccines because this is going to be an annual polava.

.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Mungler

[JohnfromUK]

12 minutes ago, Mungler said:

someone has plans to quickly roll out our own ability (end to end) to manufacture and produce vaccines

I believe most of the AZ ones are made here.  They have plants here (Oxford and Keele manufacturing, Wrexham 'processing' whatever that is) and in Holland and Germany.  The India production of the AZ is a licensing agreement I think.

[Vince Green]

We are rubbing the EU's noses in their own failings and they are not going to like having that done to them so very publicly.

This vaccine is going to be a big global earner for years to come. We absolutely have to produce in in UK and export it as well. We would have to be blind not to see the opportunity

Edited March 19, 2021 by Vince Green

[TRINITY]

30 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

We are rubbing the EU's noses in their own failings and they are not going to like having that done to them so very publicly.

This vaccine is going to be a big global earner for years to come. We absolutely have to produce in in UK and export it as well. We would have to be blind not to see the opportunity

Trouble is Vince. The AZ vaccine is sold or given manufacturing rights at cost. UK wont make a penny from it.

[Raja Clavata]

10 hours ago, Mungler said:

It’s going to get interesting. Because we got on the vaccine first the other countries will struggle to catch up as more countries like India will hold back what they make to stop rioting on their own streets. We have enough vaccines to double jab pretty much everyone over 40 or vulnerable and that’s the sweet spot for the virus - I wouldn’t bother giving it to fit under 40’s.

With Europe heading into another lockdown and us coming out (and perhaps a year in front with our economic recovery) the EU will fight back and double down on their unpleasantness - they have really come up short and the loss of face is off the scale.

All the rabid remoaners on face book have fallen silent but still try and rally by calling all Brits gammons and racists and the way they fight back from the gutter with baseless insults belies their anger, frustration and resentment at being proven wrong. Indeed Brexit has been given a demonstrable reason and benefit.

One of the people I follow on Facey has a good writing style and understanding of economics, he is also a rabid remoaner who left the UK, burnt his GB passport, got an Irish passport and now lives in Portugal. He is over 60, has diabetes and smokes those Philip Morris Heets. If he gets Covid his Irish passport and an inadequate Portuguese health system won’t save him and he is very much odds on to die. Will he admit that he would be better off in GB right now where he would with 100% certainty have been vaccinated? No he won’t and chances are he will die on that particular cross.

Bottom line, people are spiteful (EU leaders) and people go mental over being proven wrong (remoaners).

Interesting times indeed. If I was a European citizen right now in lockdown and curfew, I would be on the streets wanting to have a chat with those in charge.

Do you seriously believe that Brexit, in it's entirety, is vindicated by the complete failure of the EU with their COVID vaccination programme?

In my mind it's a moot point, the majority voted for it and we left but I view anyone claiming Brexit is validated by the above to be as equally wonky as a rabid remainer.

[WalkedUp]

The vaccine saga highlights the advantages that a free agent can sometimes have in reacting quickly in chaotic world when compared against a large bureaucratic organisation. 

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Do you seriously believe that Brexit, in it's entirety, is vindicated by the complete failure of the EU with their COVID vaccination programme?

In my mind it's a moot point, the majority voted for it and we left but I view anyone claiming Brexit is validated by the above to be as equally wonky as a rabid remainer.

In essence yes.

Whilst the Brexit arguments focus on our voting ourselves poorer in the short to medium term, I genuinely believe that if we had been shackled to the same EU procurement process as the rest of Europe then the differences would have been life and death. The diabetic economist chap living in Portugal I know (mentioned earlier) - I reckon he will get Covid and die before getting a vaccine in Portugal. 

Also, if we do get out of lockdown 1 year in advance of Europe and the EU leaders continue to make themselves look like Stalin by threatening forced interventions at vaccine manufacturers etc, well I reckon we have the opportunity to come out of this with an aroma of Roses and not the poo poo that was predicted.

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Do you seriously believe that Brexit, in it's entirety, is vindicated by the complete failure of the EU with their COVID vaccination programme?

In my mind it's a moot point, the majority voted for it and we left but I view anyone claiming Brexit is validated by the above to be as equally wonky as a rabid remainer.

Not on its own no. But it proves the point that an agile uk unshakled from the cumbersome EU machine with its self protecting interests would be generally outmaneuvered and outsmarted by the UK and is partly why it is being outgrown by most of the other markets in the world. 

Now where are all the remainiacs who called me a thick racist gammon for over 4 years 😎

Edited March 19, 2021 by 12gauge82

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

In essence yes.

Whilst the Brexit arguments focus on our voting ourselves poorer in the short to medium term, I genuinely believe that if we had been shackled to the same EU procurement process as the rest of Europe then the differences would have been life and death. The diabetic economist chap living in Portugal I know (mentioned earlier) - I reckon he will get Covid and die before getting a vaccine in Portugal. 

Also, if we do get out of lockdown 1 year in advance of Europe and the EU leaders continue to make themselves look like Stalin by threatening forced interventions at vaccine manufacturers etc, well I reckon we have the opportunity to come out of this with an aroma of Roses and not the poo poo that was predicted.

I still think that's a bit of a stretch.

I may well be wrong but suspect our vaccine success had much less to do directly with Brexit than some people would conveniently believe or suggest. It would be interesting to see impartial data on this but won't hold my breath.

If my first suspicion is correct then it follows that your second point is not particularly clear cut either, particularly bearing in mind that we were never directly tied to the Euro.

To be honest I'm not sure about the roses either, I think it's more the case that our poo sandwich has a slightly better dressing than theirs.

Like I say though, it's all rather moot as COVID has trumped Brexit in terms of economic impact, certainly for the forseeable future.

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

Not on its own no. But it proves the point that an agile uk unshakled from the cumbersome EU machine with its self protecting interests would be generally outmaneuvered and outsmarted by the UK and is partly why it is being outgrown by most of the other markets in the world. 

Now where are all the remainiacs who called me a thick racist gammon for over 4 years 😎

Per above and I'm assuming when you've previously said you knew what you were voting for with Brexit you're not now suggesting you knew COVID was coming 😜 

PS - isn't self protecting exactly what we have done in respect to securing COVID vaccines?

[Raja Clavata]

Oh look, curiosity got the better of me, I'll probably get flamed for this but anyway ...

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/covid-vaccine-decisions-brexit

 

In other news the French CNRS have released a video claiming indisputable evidence that COVID originated from the lab. It's potency was allegedly increased not for weaponisation  purposes but in the interest of research. I have the video on my phone but don't know how to share the link and it's in French to boot...

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, TRINITY said:

Trouble is Vince. The AZ vaccine is sold or given manufacturing rights at cost. UK wont make a penny from it.

Well it is at the moment but this is a virus that will mutate. What happens with version 2 or 3 of the vaccine ? That could be a discussion still to come. 

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

I still think that's a bit of a stretch.

I may well be wrong but suspect our vaccine success had much less to do directly with Brexit than some people would conveniently believe or suggest. It would be interesting to see impartial data on this but won't hold my breath.

If my first suspicion is correct then it follows that your second point is not particularly clear cut either, particularly bearing in mind that we were never directly tied to the Euro.

To be honest I'm not sure about the roses either, I think it's more the case that our poo sandwich has a slightly better dressing than theirs.

Like I say though, it's all rather moot as COVID has trumped Brexit in terms of economic impact, certainly for the forseeable future.

Per above and I'm assuming when you've previously said you knew what you were voting for with Brexit you're not now suggesting you knew COVID was coming 😜 

PS - isn't self protecting exactly what we have done in respect to securing COVID vaccines?

It is far more serious than you might imagine. France is one of the most indebted countries in the world. Their current debt level is 97% of GDP but their GDP is forecast to drop another 20%. AND they are just entering a bigger lockdown than than the previous two. Macron has been living off crdiit 

Can they survive that ? I cant see how.

Smart investment money is already haemoraging out of Europe but there are at least another six or seven countries not far behind. Greece, Italy, Spain etc. All are technically bankrupt but the European Central Bank has (illegally) not called in their debts when they were required to. Funny that, cant be just an oversight?

Practically all the rest of the EU countries, known as the minor states, live on handouts (sorry, that should be subsidies) as long as they toe the line and vote as they told when they are told. What are they going to do when the money runs out? Starve is a good prediction.

Europe really does look doomed and we were so lucky to get out when we did but we are still far too close not to be affected really badly by the fall out when it does.

Perverse as it may seem, given their attitude towards us, The best thing we can do is try to keep the EU afloat. Despite knowing that if the shoe was on the other foot they would happil pee on us as we went down.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Vince Green

[12gauge82]

5 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I still think that's a bit of a stretch.

I may well be wrong but suspect our vaccine success had much less to do directly with Brexit than some people would conveniently believe or suggest. It would be interesting to see impartial data on this but won't hold my breath.

If my first suspicion is correct then it follows that your second point is not particularly clear cut either, particularly bearing in mind that we were never directly tied to the Euro.

To be honest I'm not sure about the roses either, I think it's more the case that our poo sandwich has a slightly better dressing than theirs.

Like I say though, it's all rather moot as COVID has trumped Brexit in terms of economic impact, certainly for the forseeable future.

Per above and I'm assuming when you've previously said you knew what you were voting for with Brexit you're not now suggesting you knew COVID was coming 😜 

PS - isn't self protecting exactly what we have done in respect to securing COVID vaccines?

No I didn't know Covid was coming but like anything in life, if you try to micro mange people you won't get the best from them, if you create a protectionist organisation, that doesn't beat the competition with supirior or/and cheaper products, but by preventing anyone inside your trading block buying elsewhere, therefore using our taxes to shore up ineffective business,its obvious to me the EU is not a healthy organisation. So when a crisis comes along why would an organisation like the EU do any better at that? 

[Mungler]

Raja, the point about Brexit is that it’s effect has almost entirely been washed away by Covid. The world as we knew it has been turned upside down with the new and more serious economic threat. Following on, the landscape has so dramatically changed that it could be a game changer which actually dramatically favours the UK and so becomes the straw that breaks an already fragile EU - granted, more by luck than judgment or design but ‘how or why’ doesn’t matter does it?

The problem with remoaners is that they can’t concede any of this - even Raja’s post is dripping with ‘yeah but we were right and Brexit was bad and brexiteers just got lucky but....’.

They can’t admit that actually it’s self determination that is the big difference  here as we are we are quicker and more flexible and underscored in all of this is the British mindset which is entirely different to the continent. 

Indeed, I haven’t seen a single remoaner pass critical judgment on the European leaders who have tried to cut the AZ vaccine off at the knees. In all seriousness, after this I would form a tribunal and hold all those European leaders to account for all the unnecessary deaths which absolutely will arise as a result of this. Oh and don’t forget the measles epidemic which will follow next year as all the anti vaccer morons get a foothold in the minds of the stupid and get to point to the ‘legitimate fears’ of their European leaders. It is genuinely criminal behaviour and not one remoaner can bring themselves to a single cross word against anything European - you remoaners are just as bad if not worse than those you seek to decry. 

If we get out of this 1 year in front of Europe, that first leaver advantage with all our other advantages (English language, proper legal system, independent currency, national desire to graft and get on etc) well it’s going to get pretty exciting I think.

7 hours ago, Vince Green said:

It is far more serious than you might imagine. France is one of the most indebted countries in the world. Their current debt level is 97% of GDP but their GDP is forecast to drop another 20%. AND they are just entering a bigger lockdown than than the previous two. Macron has been living off crdiit 

Can they survive that ? I cant see how.

Smart investment money is already haemoraging out of Europe but there are at least another six or seven countries not far behind. Greece, Italy, Spain etc. All are technically bankrupt but the European Central Bank has (illegally) not called in their debts when they were required to. Funny that, cant be just an oversight?

Practically all the rest of the EU countries, known as the minor states, live on handouts (sorry, that should be subsidies) as long as they toe the line and vote as they told when they are told. What are they going to do when the money runs out? Starve is a good prediction.

Europe really does look doomed and we were so lucky to get out when we did but we are still far too close not to be affected really badly by the fall out when it does.

Perverse as it may seem, given their attitude towards us, The best thing we can do is try to keep the EU afloat. Despite knowing that if the shoe was on the other foot they would happil pee on us as we went down.

👍

3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

No I didn't know Covid was coming but like anything in life, if you try to micro mange people you won't get the best from them, if you create a protectionist organisation, that doesn't beat the competition with supirior or/and cheaper products, but by preventing anyone inside your trading block buying elsewhere, therefore using our taxes to shore up ineffective business,its obvious to me the EU is not a healthy organisation. So when a crisis comes along why would an organisation like the EU do any better at that? 

👍

[Jim Neal]

22 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Oh look, curiosity got the better of me, I'll probably get flamed for this but anyway ...

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/covid-vaccine-decisions-brexit

From that article, explaining how the UK expedited the approval process way ahead of the EU:

Quote

Any EU member state could have used the same provision of the legislation to approve the vaccine. They decided not to for political and technical reasons, not legal ones.

So yes, whatever the reasons were, the EU - or being a member of it - slowed the process down.  Point perfectly illustrated

[TRINITY]

Cant do link because I dont subscribe to telegraph. But apparently Pfizer have told the tutonic blond bitch to back off with her vaccine export threats 

Apparently they have pointed out to her that an ingredient which is essential to manufacture is produced in Yorkshire.  So we could retaliate and totally close down the Pfizer manufacturing process.

Good old Yorkshire 👍👍👍👍👍👍

[Gordon R]

Got to agree with Mungler's post.

The EU said the UK were too quick to give the go ahead on vaccines, then subsequently agreed they were okay. They then declared they were unsafe, before doing another U-turn and declaring them safe. in the meantime, people in the EU are falling victim to Covid and dying. 

I honestly believe there is blood on their hands. They are beyond dreadful and playing with lives, whilst trying to present an image of competence. 

If there are still people in the UK who think the EU is a good thing, there is a name for them - simpletons.

[Vince Green]

11 hours ago, TRINITY said:

Cant do link because I dont subscribe to telegraph. But apparently Pfizer have told the tutonic blond bitch to back off with her vaccine export threats 

Apparently they have pointed out to her that an ingredient which is essential to manufacture is produced in Yorkshire.  So we could retaliate and totally close down the Pfizer manufacturing process.

Good old Yorkshire 👍👍👍👍👍👍

I never knew the vaccine contained tea, now there's a thing. You learn something new every day