That was a great success then........

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

There is currently a staggering increase in hospitalisation, with many new wards having to be opened up for COVID patients. Some are now axing operations again. Many of these patients in hospital are young and/or vaccinated and have no underlying health problems.

Where has this come from ?
Hospital case are up marginally, 'staggering' sounds like a newspaper headline..

 

4 minutes ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

It is worth remembering that the lockdowns and restrictions are to help reduce hospital care and overwhelming the NHS, thus leaving staff and resources to concentrate on other patients and treatments. 

I appreciate that people are losing livelihoods and missing out on important life experiences, but the NHS simply cannot cope with life as normal. It's no secret that the NHS was under-funded and under-staffed before COVID hit, it is now far worse.

Hospitals have been very slack for months, referrals have been delayed still though, leading to excess preventable deaths.
To describe the NHS as understaffed and under funded ? I dont know where to start there, sounds like a party political broadcast from the labour party...

A good friend of mine has been waiting for some scans on his chest for 3  weeks , 'Due to covid' and many staff off in isolation, these tests couldnt be done till next week.
He died Wednesday night, OK he  was 78 , but was in good health and I spoke to him at home during the day.
Most likely to be put down as a covid death to make those figures nice and scary, although he tested negative.

 

11 minutes ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

If anyone was told they had to sacrifice their business or lose their wife to cancer, almost all would choose to lose their business. This is what could be on the cards if we don't find a way to stop people being hospitalised by COVID and having to push back other vital treatments.

Rather ironic you should say that , because we have most certainly 'sacrificed' many many people to cancer trying to 'save' overwhelming the NHS.

 

15 minutes ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

I'd love to have life back to normal, and I'd love to be able to stop hemorrhaging money and custom because of this damn virus. But we are stuck between a rock and a hard place until we find a way of controlling it. And vaccines don't seem to be the savour we were promised.

Weve had multiple attempts at 'controlling it' 
This usually involves lock downs , suspension of freedoms and services, and a potential economic timebomb , not to mention the mental and domestics stresses that have cost some very dearly.

Besides success with the vaccine roll out, we still cant control it, again...any more than we can control the flu or common cold.

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

GP on the news last night stated they may have to close their surgery due to staff shortages caused by staff having to self isolate despite being double jabbed. She described the situation as ‘daft’. 

She said it was daft that in a few weeks time they won't have to isolate because they have been double jabbed and have been for a long time, so there's no need to close the surgery. 

And she's right.

I'm sure the same news piece said 500,000 people were told to isolate by the app last week,  I'm still surprised anyone is still using the app, you can easily home test twice a week at no cost.

[Cosmicblue]

The App...looks for local Bluetooth devices, i.e. phones, (claimed to be within 2 metres) that stay in close proximity for more than 15 minutes - Bluetooth has a range greater than two metres as anyone with a Bluetooth speaker will testify.

The App was a token effort that provided a kind of false hope at an individual level.   On a broader 'big data' scale there would have been useful information but not attributable to individual people.    

[Scully]

1 hour ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

I wish I was as confident as you lot.

There is currently a staggering increase in hospitalisation, with many new wards having to be opened up for COVID patients. Some are now axing operations again. Many of these patients in hospital are young and/or vaccinated and have no underlying health problems.

It is worth remembering that the lockdowns and restrictions are to help reduce hospital care and overwhelming the NHS, thus leaving staff and resources to concentrate on other patients and treatments. 

I appreciate that people are losing livelihoods and missing out on important life experiences, but the NHS simply cannot cope with life as normal. It's no secret that the NHS was under-funded and under-staffed before COVID hit, it is now far worse.

If anyone was told they had to sacrifice their business or lose their wife to cancer, almost all would choose to lose their business. This is what could be on the cards if we don't find a way to stop people being hospitalised by COVID and having to push back other vital treatments.

I'd love to have life back to normal, and I'd love to be able to stop hemorrhaging money and custom because of this damn virus. But we are stuck between a rock and a hard place until we find a way of controlling it. And vaccines don't seem to be the savour we were promised.

I keep hearing about all these op’s and procedures ( especially regarding cancers ) which have been put on hold due to Covid, but as I’ve said before, I personally know of four people whom have been treated for their cancer ( and continue to be so ) including various op’s for the same, none of whom have had to wait let alone postponed. 

[udderlyoffroad]

59 minutes ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

There is currently a staggering increase in hospitalisation

There isn't.

People in hospital are testing positive.  That is because the UK hospitals are filthy, disgusting places pushing DNRs onto otherwise healthy people.

The rhetoric is being ramped up because there's an awful lot of vested interests in remaining in the state we're in.

As you state, the point of the lockdown was to 'protect the NHS' front and centre, not to save lives. 

We need to learn to live with this airborne virus - But don't worry, we won't, lockdown will be declared within a couple of weeks or so, and it'll be another 'few weeks to flatten the curve'.  The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.  We must be truly mad in this country.

Oh and we'll just have to agree to differ that the NHS is underfunded and under-staffed.  It is demonstrably neither, but so appallingly managed that we are effectively euthanising people. 

 

[Mungler]

I love a graph or two.

Look at the curves and the dates. Testing positive on the top, and deaths on the bottom. 

 

 

And here:

Red circle - we didn't have the prolific testing we do now and on a daily basis, but nonetheless, testing positive results tracks and follows against deaths, until now. And let’s remember, Delta has been here since April.

Purple circle - that's the key to opening up.

Roll on August and opening up.

.

I would add that I did that interleaving the graphs into a word file and then screen grabbing in MS Paint (yeah I’m the cutting edge of technical me). Anyhoos I couldn’t squeeze on hospital admissions, but we are nowhere near the doom the bed wetting types would have us believe.

And lastly, I wish they would give us more info beyond age in relation to deaths - yes we know Covid is primarily a disease of age, but I’d bet a chunk that 95% of people getting ironed out are what I would clinically term as being ‘on a wobbly wicket’ or unvaccinated.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Mungler

[Vince Green]

7 hours ago, Scully said:

Eh? Aren’t you the one who stated his son had gone to watch the Euros, but had previously criticised others for doing the same? 
My son was pinged last Monday after watching the game in the pub with his mates. He doesn’t have Covid but has to isolate for 10 days, in a house from which his Mother and sister go to and return from, work on a daily basis. 🤷‍♂️He has now deleted the app. 
A GP on the news last night stated they may have to close their surgery due to staff shortages caused by staff having to self isolate despite being double jabbed. She described the situation as ‘daft’. 
My OH has the app, but is deleting it after this weekends shift as she doesn’t want to get pinged and have to cancel our trip to Edinburgh. Both of us are double jabbed. 

What my son does is not under my control he is an adult and got free tickets to all the matches. He wouldn't have paid to go.

What he was more upset about was the appealing behaviour and fighting.

Nobody checked his covid status going into any of the matches but he didn't go in the public entrances he used the vip entrance round the side 

[Scully]

28 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

What my son does is not under my control he is an adult and got free tickets to all the matches. He wouldn't have paid to go.

What he was more upset about was the appealing behaviour and fighting.

Nobody checked his covid status going into any of the matches but he didn't go in the public entrances he used the vip entrance round the side 

I’m assuming most of those you criticised for gong to the matches are adults too. Does the virus make exemptions for free entry or the gate one chooses to go through? Your hypocrisy is astounding! 

[LeedsZeppelin]

8 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Where has this come from ?
Hospital case are up marginally, 'staggering' sounds like a newspaper headline....

...To describe the NHS as understaffed and under funded ? I dont know where to start there, sounds like a party political broadcast from the labour party...

...Besides success with the vaccine roll out, we still cant control it, again...any more than we can control the flu or common cold.

I may have worded it a little strongly, but my sentiment stands. Hospital admissions are up. There are numerous reports of hospitals opening more 'COVID wards', I've heard it first hand from friends and family in the NHS about an increase in patients, and Chris Whitty keeps hammering the point home (to deaf ears) that trends are looking 'scary with numbers doubling every three weeks.

Certain hospitals have already started postponing non-urgent appointments, and NHS staff have been asked to postpone holidays with some areas putting a stop on people booking leave. Ask yourself why.

In reference to the NHS been under-staffed and underfunded; this has been the case for years. Ask anyone who works in the NHS.

Even though we cannot control the common cold or flu, these do not carry the same risk as COVID, nor put such a strain on the NHS. That is the issue.

Sorry to hear about your friend by the way.

8 hours ago, Scully said:

I keep hearing about all these op’s and procedures ( especially regarding cancers ) which have been put on hold due to Covid, but as I’ve said before, I personally know of four people whom have been treated for their cancer ( and continue to be so ) including various op’s for the same, none of whom have had to wait let alone postponed. 

I've had a pre-operation appointment postponed, and have never had the call up about it. Luckily I haven't had a issue.

My mother-in-law has had her knee operations put back twice, and I know of someone else who has had a shoulder operation postponed.

Not so much recently, but there was cases of cancer patients not getting treatment due to risks of catching COVID from hospitals. This was last year. 

8 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

There isn't.

People in hospital are testing positive.  That is because the UK hospitals are filthy, disgusting places pushing DNRs onto otherwise healthy people.

The rhetoric is being ramped up because there's an awful lot of vested interests in remaining in the state we're in.

As you state, the point of the lockdown was to 'protect the NHS' front and centre, not to save lives. 

We need to learn to live with this airborne virus - But don't worry, we won't, lockdown will be declared within a couple of weeks or so, and it'll be another 'few weeks to flatten the curve'.  The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.  We must be truly mad in this country.

Oh and we'll just have to agree to differ that the NHS is underfunded and under-staffed.  It is demonstrably neither, but so appallingly managed that we are effectively euthanising people. 

 

I'm sorry, but that all sounds like a load of waffle to me. What vested interests are there in keeping the country locked down?

7 hours ago, Mungler said:

I wish they would give us more info beyond age in relation to deaths - yes we know Covid is primarily a disease of age, but I’d bet a chunk that 95% of people getting ironed out are what I would clinically term as being ‘on a wobbly wicket’ or unvaccinated.

 

It's not the deaths that are the problem. It is the people taking up hospital beds. Someone in a bed for weeks/months puts the strain on the NHS, someone in a bodybag doesn't.

It is now a case with young people and people who are vaccinated who are getting ill and been kept in hospital. It is not a 'disease of age at all.

[Mungler]

8 hours ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

It's not the deaths that are the problem. It is the people taking up hospital beds. Someone in a bed for weeks/months puts the strain on the NHS, someone in a bodybag doesn't.

It is now a case with young people and people who are vaccinated who are getting ill and been kept in hospital. It is not a 'disease of age at all.

Whenever I hear ‘doubling’ I hear the BS alarm going off.

You double 2 and you get to 4, that’s an increase of only 2 but a 100% increase or a ‘doubling’ sounds a lot more frightening. 

Now then, how many hospitals are there in the UK I hear you ask? Well, the answer is 1,250.

Latest daily Covid patient admission is 717 (that’s well under less than 1 admission per hospital) and total Covid bed occupancy is 3,964 and so that’s 3 Covid patients per hospital.

There are 551 people on ventilation, so that’s nearly 3 hospitals for each ventilation case.

I get that all the figures will go up, and we are holding our breath. I’ll try and dig out a useful report - broadly the summary was that young people that need hospital generally need oxygen and steroids and don’t tend to block up beds the same way the geriatrics do.

Lastly, look at the biggest and scariest of those numbers above and remember we are a nation of 70,000,000 just to add some context and perspective.

Hospital Covid admissions graph below:

.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Mungler

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, F1 s on at Silverstone, 65,000 expected , I can see the rate of infections going up and we will be back to seeing more going to hospital and the mortuaries 

[LeedsZeppelin]

54 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Whenever I hear ‘doubling’ I hear the BS alarm going off.

You double 2 and you get to 4, that’s an increase of only 2 but a 100% increase or a ‘doubling’ sounds a lot more frightening...

...Latest daily Covid patient admission is 717 (that’s well under less than 1 admission per hospital) and total Covid bed occupancy is 3,964 and so that’s 3 Covid patients per hospital.

 

Why use 2 and 4 as an example instead of 717 and 1434? Or 1434 and 2868?

As you have pointed out, 717 is only the current daily admission, not how many we have in a hospital bed. It doesn't take long to fill those 3,964 beds at that rate does it?

59 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Now then, how many hospitals are there in the UK I hear you ask? Well, the answer is 1,250.

How many of those are NHS hospitals with facilities to admit COVID patients, and how many are private eye hospitals and such?

The actual number of NHS hospitals is far lower.

[Mungler]

3 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, F1 s on at Silverstone, 65,000 expected , I can see the rate of infections going up and we will be back to seeing more going to hospital and the mortuaries 

I saw that piece on BBC breakfast and:

1. The MD of the course said that without today, that was going to be the end of Silverstone (financially wiped out, the end)

2. They have the same capacity as your average football stadium BUT spread over 3 miles

3. everyone on entry had to show negative PCR / double vax

4. all the people interviewed were happy with arrangements

 

I thought I’d mention all of this just so there’s some balance to the reporting of the piece on here 😆

3 minutes ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

Why use 2 and 4 as an example instead of 717 and 1434? Or 1434 and 2868?

As you have pointed out, 717 is only the current daily admission, not how many we have in a hospital bed. It doesn't take long to fill those 3,964 beds at that rate does it?

How many of those are NHS hospitals with facilities to admit COVID patients, and how many are private eye hospitals and such?

The actual number of NHS hospitals is far lower.

 
No, you’re absolutely right. We’re all doomed. This must be the end. I had my car booked in for an MoT next month - at least I don’t need to worry about that now. 

 

 

[LeedsZeppelin]

14 minutes ago, Mungler said:

No, you’re absolutely right. We’re all doomed. This must be the end. I had my car booked in for an MoT next month - at least I don’t need to worry about that now. 

I can remember people having the same attitude 15 months ago. 🙄

We are not all doomed, but neither is everything swell and the government (or Lizard People, or whatever conspiracy you subscribe to) are just making it all up for some unknown nefarious reason. 

It is a serious issue, and one that is proving to be getting worse again. It demands some respect and caution, that is all. If we carry on acting irresponsibility and rushing into full social interaction without precautions then we will end up in a full lockdown again. No one wants that.

[oldypigeonpopper]

24 minutes ago, Mungler said:

I saw that piece on BBC breakfast and:

1. The MD of the course said that without today, that was going to be the end of Silverstone (financially wiped out, the end)

2. They have the same capacity as your average football stadium BUT spread over 3 miles

3. everyone on entry had to show negative PCR / double vax

4. all the people interviewed were happy with arrangements

 

I thought I’d mention all of this just so there’s some balance to the reporting of the piece on here 😆

 
No, you’re absolutely right. We’re all doomed. This must be the end. I had my car booked in for an MoT next month - at least I don’t need to worry about that now. 

 

 

Hello, financially wiped out seems harsh when there's billions spent on motor sport , not including the 3.4 billion fortune of Bernie E , as usual it's the general public taking a hit in their pockets, 

[oldypigeonpopper]

3 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, financially wiped out seems harsh when there's billions spent on motor sport , not including the 3.4 billion fortune of Bernie E , as usual it's the general public taking a hit in their pockets, 

As for this NHS App , what's going on there ?, perhaps I am to much of a Luddite on this but all I see is chaos 🤔

[Mungler]

3 hours ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

I can remember people having the same attitude 15 months ago. 🙄

We are not all doomed, but neither is everything swell and the government (or Lizard People, or whatever conspiracy you subscribe to) are just making it all up for some unknown nefarious reason. 

It is a serious issue, and one that is proving to be getting worse again. It demands some respect and caution, that is all. If we carry on acting irresponsibility and rushing into full social interaction without precautions then we will end up in a full lockdown again. No one wants that.

We are currently running below the 5 year average mortality rate - quite a feat in a pandemic, no? 

The spikes last year were dry tinder and deaths brought forward early.

 

 

3 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, financially wiped out seems harsh when there's billions spent on motor sport , not including the 3.4 billion fortune of Bernie E , as usual it's the general public taking a hit in their pockets, 

It’s what the MD said and I believe him - the event and hospitality industries are on their knees.

There may have been billions in the sport - throwing events and advertising maybe?

Just because Bernie has his pockets full, how does that benefit Silverstone?

 

[12gauge82]

As others have said, it's now time to get on with it. The vaccine has been rolled out and everything sensible that can be done, has been. 

The sooner people realise that Covid isn't going away and it will continue to kill people the better. 

I always use the car analogy, we know if we have cars on the road people will die in crashes, that doesn't mean we all stop using cars, we seat speed limits and wear seat belts and it's the same with Covid, we've rolled out a vaccine and we now need to get on with life, there's nothing else we can do and just like having cars on the road, people will probably die everyday. It's certainly not right to Rob the young of their futures. 

[Mungler]

6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

As others have said, it's now time to get on with it. The vaccine has been rolled out and everything sensible that can be done, has been. 

The sooner people realise that Covid isn't going away and it will continue to kill people the better. 

I always use the car analogy, we know if we have cars on the road people will die in crashes, that doesn't mean we all stop using cars, we seat speed limits and wear seat belts and it's the same with Covid, we've rolled out a vaccine and we now need to get on with life, there's nothing else we can do and just like having cars on the road, people will probably die everyday. It's certainly not right to Rob the young of their futures. 

That’s it, and those who still want to wear masks or even two masks at a time are welcome to carry on doing so - if they want to nail their front doors shut and carry on bleaching their shopping, no one will stop them but everyone else would like to get back to living a life.

More to the point, if we don’t have a go at getting back to some normality now, then that’s us done for another year because we can’t try it in autumn or winter. Whilst the government is busy printing money like the Weimar Republic, another year of lockdown would be the end of life as we know it and as we kiss goodbye to an unaffordable NHS for example.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Mungler

[LeedsZeppelin]

36 minutes ago, Mungler said:

We are currently running below the 5 year average mortality rate - quite a feat in a pandemic, no? 

As I said earlier, deaths are not the problem - ill people needing hospital care are.

Last year's deaths were not a true representation due to less 'normal deaths including road fatalities (less people driving around), workplace accidents (work closures), sport and leasure related deaths (people couldn't do things), and so on. I assume this year may be similar to a lesser extent.

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

10 minutes ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

 

Last year's deaths were not a true representation due to less 'normal deaths including road fatalities (less people driving around), workplace accidents (work closures), sport and leasure related deaths (people couldn't do things), and so on. I assume this year may be similar to a lesser extent.

Im sorry but thats just plain rubbish, average road deaths per year are less than 2000, so even if there were NO road deaths , which is clearly not the case, or NO workplace  or sport deaths, again , clearly not the case, they would be a drop in the ocean anyway.
So to say covid deaths swallowed up the deaths that didnt happen is total fallacy.

 

10 minutes ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

As I said earlier, deaths are not the problem - ill people needing hospital care are.

This again means what ?

Deaths arent a problem?  Are deaths from untreated ailments (because of covid) a problem ?
What about the quality of life of people who cannot get seen by their GPs , because most GPs have had a year off ?
The real death toll will be next year , when all those who SHOULD have been treated over the last 18 months, die from the diseases they have been living with, while the  obsession with covid has been satisfied.

Some people seem very reluctant to let pandemic fever go.
Heres a test, how many people do YOU PERSONALLY know, that have definitely died of covid, and please dont include anyone over the age of 90, or with a terminal illness.
Ill go first.... 1.

[Walker570]

On 03/07/2021 at 22:17, oowee said:

Time to crack on and take our chances. Those without vaccine made their choice, we now need to roll the dice and live again. 

ooowee !!!!  Have you been on those tablets again????  Your usually doom and gloom.  Good to see a solid sensible comment and I agree wholeheartedly.  I visited two friends yesterday and they where totally terrified to go out. Both have full vaccinations. They suck up very bit of information fed to them via the media and of course they assume it has to be true. 

I cannot see things getting any better from the scare tactics because I have received a text from my local Dr's practise saying that all persons entering the premises will have to be wearing face nappies for the forseeable future.

Report of someone getting pinged becaue they lived next door to someone who had tested positive but had no symptoms.

She had not seen them or spoken to them but had to sht herslef up for 10days. Things are getting very crazy.

[Mungler]

17 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

.
Heres a test, how many people do YOU PERSONALLY know, that have definitely died of covid, and please dont include anyone over the age of 90, or with a terminal illness.
Ill go first.... 1.

None, and I know a lot of people.

My yardstick has been my mother in her 70’s (cancer survivor) and my mates dad (70’s retired plumber with plaque on his lungs) both got it and recovered. My mum got knocked for 6 like nasty nasty flu and the retired plumber needed a week on Oxygen.
 

[Mice!]

13 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

cannot see things getting any better from the scare tactics because I have received a text from my local Dr's practise saying that all persons entering the premises will have to be wearing face nappies for the forseeable future.

If that keeps the surgery open then where is the issue? Better to wear a mask, the staff could still get covid despite being vaccinated then have to isolate until the rules are changed.

14 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Report of someone getting pinged becaue they lived next door to someone who had tested positive but had no symptoms.

She had not seen them or spoken to them but had to sht herslef up for 10days. Things are getting very crazy.

That's simply ridiculous and probably down to the App, I'm amazed people still have it.

16 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

visited two friends yesterday and they where totally terrified to go out. Both have full vaccinations. They suck up very bit of information fed to them via the media and of course they assume it has to be true. 

What sort of age are the friends? The old folk I see at the caravan park are all back on site and happy, mixing and socialising with each other, double jabbed and happy, I was sorting someone's tv for them a few weeks back and there was nothing mentioned about covid, they were just happy being back on site.

[12gauge82]

27 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Im sorry but thats just plain rubbish, average road deaths per year are less than 2000, so even if there were NO road deaths , which is clearly not the case, or NO workplace  or sport deaths, again , clearly not the case, they would be a drop in the ocean anyway.
So to say covid deaths swallowed up the deaths that didnt happen is total fallacy.

 

This again means what ?

Deaths arent a problem?  Are deaths from untreated ailments (because of covid) a problem ?
What about the quality of life of people who cannot get seen by their GPs , because most GPs have had a year off ?
The real death toll will be next year , when all those who SHOULD have been treated over the last 18 months, die from the diseases they have been living with, while the  obsession with covid has been satisfied.

Some people seem very reluctant to let pandemic fever go.
Heres a test, how many people do YOU PERSONALLY know, that have definitely died of covid, and please dont include anyone over the age of 90, or with a terminal illness.
Ill go first.... 1.

0 and 1 very poorly for 3 months.