Invictus shooting very high

[Ayrshireshooter]

So I finally took the plunge and bought the invictus. Yesterday my gun fitter took my to a pattern plate and I was very suprised to see how high it was shooting. 
 

with the beads in a circle of 8 it was at least 70/30. More even more...

this is the standard invictus 5 and apparently the manufacturer says it's 50/50 I saw in a review.

 

not sure what to make of it ... it was second hand so maybe someone adjusted it in some way before?

Edited September 15, 2021 by Ayrshireshooter

[Smokersmith]

In a figure 8 I wouldn’t class 70/30 as VERY high.

I’d only expect a gun to give 50/50 when you’re shooting it ‘flat’.

[Scully]

18 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

In a figure 8 I wouldn’t class 70/30 as VERY high.

I’d only expect a gun to give 50/50 when you’re shooting it ‘flat’.

This. 

[Ayrshireshooter]

I'm going to get a third party to see if it's some how me..

Any idea what could cause this. Is there a mod internally to change how high a gun shoots? 

 

 

 

[Smokersmith]

 

3 minutes ago, Ayrshireshooter said:

Any idea what could cause this.

Imagine a line through the centre of the horizontal barrel .. the pattern will centre along that line.

When your eye is directly behind both beads .. the two planes will be parallel and a 50/50 pattern results.

Now keeping your eye in the same place, to raise the end bead to achieve the famous 8 … you will incline upwards the line through the middle of the barrel and raise the poi … resulting in a proportion of pellets higher up.

 

 

[Cawdor118]

I have never personally subscribed to the figure of 8 thing. It seems alien to me in fact - Its way to much to concentrate on. Personally, ditch the middle bead and cover the clay with the barrel. 

[tignme]

where in ayrshire did you pattern plate your gun.

[buze]

What Invictus 5 did you get? Is it a 'raised rib' one? I have an Invictus V for about ~5 years now (very early ones), sporting, flat comb, flat rib, and it shoots (ahaha) flat. If you have a raise comb or a raised rib (Ascent) these are *meant* to shoot high. They will shoot high when you align the beads, if you do a "figure of eight" they will shoot even higher.

For all intent and purpose, you would get used to where a gun shoot, regardless of the rib, with a bit of practice, but I understand perhaps you have the "wrong" ribbed gun.

Otherwise, I've been shooting the skin of mine for years, and it's as tight, steady, lovely as when I got it, there's barely any visible wear after perhaps 10-12k shots/year. Hope you find one that fits you!

[wymberley]

Traditionally, that was considered game pattern placement. Whatever the manufacturer says assumes the gun fits you to obtain that performance. If it doesn't, it won't. Sounds like a shave off the comb perhaps. Adjusting your grip to negate the '8' may well sort it, but if it's comfortable as it is, then a simple easy reduction in comb height is a fix and forget cure.

[Ayrshireshooter]

I have the standard sporter with standard rib.

yes I would say my head was a little high on the gun but not much and I was pushing my head down to compensate at points for testing.

while we were doing it I even aligned the beads by pushing my head down quite hardand it was still high. 
 

I think it's at the point that I just don't trust myself. Need more testing and with someone else to test it themselves.

seems much more likely to be me than the gun anyway!

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Ayrshireshooter

[welshwarrior]

9 hours ago, Ayrshireshooter said:

 to see if it's some how me..

 

 

 

 

It could quite easily be you, your neck, face, shoulder, arm etc may not have been produced to the manufacturers design spec or tolerances for a shooter. 
 

Gun fit is personal and the reason you’re have your gun fitted is to achieve the pattern landing where your looking (not aiming) and the pattern is distributed where you want it (60/40, 70/30 etc).   I’m somewhat surprised you’re gunfitter didn’t explain this   

 

 

[DUNKS]

13 hours ago, Ayrshireshooter said:

So I finally took the plunge and bought the invictus. Yesterday my gun fitter took my to a pattern plate and I was very suprised to see how high it was shooting. 
 

with the beads in a circle of 8 it was at least 70/30. More even more...

this is the standard invictus 5 and apparently the manufacturer says it's 50/50 I saw in a review.

 

not sure what to make of it ... it was second hand so maybe someone adjusted it in some way before?

Did your gun fitter not have an opinion on this?

[Ayrshireshooter]

Yeah he said he would try something. Emailed him today but he's busy.

 

guess I am over thinking it a lot now. I had thought if you contort your face to get a figure of 8 you were guaranteed a 60/40 type split. 
 

after reading comments I think I was missing the point. Gun fit is actually pretty complex with a lot of variables impacting other variables.

[London Best]

Gun fit is to make the gun shoot where you are looking from a naturally mounted position.
If you are going to move your head to “aim” through a figure 8 sighting position there is no point in having the gun fitted. 
Also, if you are a beginner you will not have a consistent gun mount so, again, there is no point in having a gun fitted yet.

[wymberley]

8 minutes ago, Ayrshireshooter said:

Yeah he said he would try something. Emailed him today but he's busy.

 

guess I am over thinking it a lot now. I had thought if you contort your face to get a figure of 8 you were guaranteed a 60/40 type split. 
 

after reading comments I think I was missing the point. Gun fit is actually pretty complex with a lot of variables impacting other variables.

Realising that is half of the battle with a follow on that you can't treat a shotgun like a rifle. Good luck.

[London Best]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

you can't treat a shotgun like a rifle. 

Never heard it put like that before, but very well worded!

[welshwarrior]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

Gun fit is to make the gun shoot where you are looking from a naturally mounted position.
If you are going to move your head to “aim” through a figure 8 sighting position there is no point in having the gun fitted. 
Also, if you are a beginner you will not have a consistent gun mount so, again, there is no point in having a gun fitted yet.

 

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

Realising that is half of the battle with a follow on that you can't treat a shotgun like a rifle. Good luck.

Well put and accurate.  

[Ayrshireshooter]

I do get that pushing my head unnaturally to make figure of 8 is not good for gun fit. I was just attempting to see where the gun itself shot as per its makers intention.

I have been shooting for 2 years and have a half decent mount with my 686 game. However, while I really like the invictus I do struggle to get a consistent and natural mount. I tend to overthink it and can't tell what my body is doing.

 

I then end up in a chicken and egg situation where I struggle to mount when it's fit/sight plane is off but can't get fit until mount is consistent.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Gun fit, gun fit, gun fit and a good repeatable mount!

The origin of the figure 8 with two beads is from trap shooting where the gun is pre-mounted. 

NOT Sporting where the gun should be down.

[Smokersmith]

21 minutes ago, Ayrshireshooter said:

I then end up in a chicken and egg situation

Let me help with that …

Get your gun to fit you 

then

Practice mounting consistently 

The mechanics of gun mount should be similar whatever gun you use.

[wymberley]

17 minutes ago, Ayrshireshooter said:

I do get that pushing my head unnaturally to make figure of 8 is not good for gun fit. I was just attempting to see where the gun itself shot as per its makers intention.

I have been shooting for 2 years and have a half decent mount with my 686 game. However, while I really like the invictus I do struggle to get a consistent and natural mount. I tend to overthink it and can't tell what my body is doing.

 

I then end up in a chicken and egg situation where I struggle to mount when it's fit/sight plane is off but can't get fit until mount is consistent.

As you're not a novice, put the Invictus to one side and practise with the 686 - particularly the mount. Then when you see the fitter and if he's happy with you and the 686 he'll ask you to mount the Invictus as you would the 686. This is the point where he will start to earn his money.

[Westward]

The old chestnut of "It should shoot where you look" is just another shotgun myth that won't die. A shotgun, as opposed to a rifle, shoots where you point it and to be able to point it well the rib should be below the line of sight and within reason, it doesn't matter by how much as the brain can compensate. Lots of sporting shooters use trap guns for that exact reason and similarly, Guerinis are becoming ever more popular as they are higher in the stock than Beretta or Miroku sporters.

Watch some top sporting shooters in action and see where their eye is relative to the rib. Virtually all are pointing the gun exactly the same way as they would point with a finger, in other words with the line of sight above the rib (or finger). 

 

[Ayrshireshooter]

I always found the shoot where you look thing a bit odd as I'm not always looking straight forward. I guess maybe it more shoot where my nose is pointing though I've seen some wonky noses .... point is, you naturally know where  forward is even if your eyes are pointing somewhere else...

Im getting back the gun tomorrow to try at the weekend.

 

I feel sorry for my fitter as actually think I'm bit of an nightmare. Practicing at home has probably made it worse as there are just so many ways to mount that feel comfortable and I've ended up cycling through them for some ungodly reason.

 

 

[welshwarrior]

Shoot where you look is just another way of say where you’re pointing and is like many phrases in common usage part of our sloppy use of the English language.  
 

The more experienced a shooter get the more tolerant they are of having the eye higher over the rib.  This comes with experience knowing where the gun points in relation to the eye.  

Edited September 16, 2021 by welshwarrior

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Smokersmith said:

 

The mechanics of gun mount should be similar whatever gun you use.

This.