oowee Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said: Ok but that doesn't answer my question, which is can you point to a social democracy model that works? I do wonder, however, if following this winters' projected rolling black outs, we might finally have a grown up discussion in this country about long term energy policy. Very much a silver lining/cloud scenario, granted. No. Sweden Norway etc would be examples held up but that relates more to the governing parties than the system of Govt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rewulf said: We already have that system, everyone can get an education, skills and a *gasp* JOB , and work towards getting their 'fair share' Its been proven conclusively that just giving people who dont work , money for nothing, does not make them want them to better themselves, yet in fear of losing votes , we continue to do it , its madness. And the end result is exactly that, a basket case economy, with everyone suffering , no matter how hard you work. Its already happening. We can easily provide basic shelter. food healthcare and energy for everyone. That would be the start from which everything else is earnt. Why would you want to give people money for nothing? Even the UK social welfare system gives money for living. The whole premise of capitalism is at odds with sustainable use of diminishing resources. Even if we were not facing a climate crisis we would deplete the available resources to the point of war or pandemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, oowee said: We can easily provide basic shelter. food healthcare and energy for everyone. We already do that . 1 minute ago, oowee said: Why would you want to give people money for nothing? Even the UK social welfare system gives money for living. But thats exactly what we do , we dish out money to people who have no intention of working...ever. Thats not a social system, that cant even be described as a charitable system, the social system is for those that need it , not those feckless , lazy creatures that just fancy it ! 3 minutes ago, oowee said: The whole premise of capitalism is at odds with sustainable use of diminishing resources. Even if we were not facing a climate crisis we would deplete the available resources to the point of war or pandemic. Forget about resources, or climate rubbish , Im talking about simple economics, people who work and pay into the system vs those that have made it their mission to never work , and scrounge as much as they can. We have plenty of these already , but you want to import more ? Its all very well , having empathy for those less fortunate , but when we cant afford to feed our own (allegedly) how can we feed all these useless mouths ? Look at Sweden , because as sure as anything , thats the country that will break first in their naivety. https://unherd.com/2021/04/swedens-migrant-rape-crisis/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 11 minutes ago, Rewulf said: We already do that . But thats exactly what we do , we dish out money to people who have no intention of working...ever. Thats not a social system, that cant even be described as a charitable system, the social system is for those that need it , not those feckless , lazy creatures that just fancy it ! Forget about resources, or climate rubbish , Im talking about simple economics, people who work and pay into the system vs those that have made it their mission to never work , and scrounge as much as they can. We have plenty of these already , but you want to import more ? Its all very well , having empathy for those less fortunate , but when we cant afford to feed our own (allegedly) how can we feed all these useless mouths ? Look at Sweden , because as sure as anything , thats the country that will break first in their naivety. https://unherd.com/2021/04/swedens-migrant-rape-crisis/ I think your making my point. Under the current system we have all of these problems so why not change it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 55 minutes ago, oowee said: I think your making my point. Under the current system we have all of these problems so why not change it? To what ? A system that lets more illegal migrants in, and caters to a population of layabouts , who are told they are entitled to a fair share, but dont have to put anything in to get it ? The current system doesnt work because its unfit for purpose, its because the people who run it are too woke to enforce it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Talking of Sweden, is this true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, Rewulf said: To what ? A system that lets more illegal migrants in, and caters to a population of layabouts , who are told they are entitled to a fair share, but dont have to put anything in to get it ? The current system doesnt work because its unfit for purpose, its because the people who run it are too woke to enforce it ! Letting more in is a sop to our system that does not work. We simply need more workers to support the system we have. If we had a greater distribution of wealth we would have far less immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, oowee said: Letting more in is a sop to our system that does not work. We simply need more workers to support the system we have. If we had a greater distribution of wealth we would have far less immigration. How on earth do you work that out ? Surely better wealth distribution makes the country more attractive ? On the matter of more workers, what good are they if theyre hands are tied by the laws that are abused by the illegal immigrants ? You could stop illegal immigrants in their tracks , simply by announcing that the UK is not processing any more asylum claims for the foreseeable, and any who end up here are going straight to Rwanda from this point on, any who are still being processed , ticket home, or yes you guessed it , Rwanda. In the end , they would just stop coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, Rewulf said: How on earth do you work that out ? Surely better wealth distribution makes the country more attractive ? On the matter of more workers, what good are they if theyre hands are tied by the laws that are abused by the illegal immigrants ? You could stop illegal immigrants in their tracks , simply by announcing that the UK is not processing any more asylum claims for the foreseeable, and any who end up here are going straight to Rwanda from this point on, any who are still being processed , ticket home, or yes you guessed it , Rwanda. In the end , they would just stop coming. Because we would do more foreign aid work. Before you pour scorn. Think about the next stage of the climate crisis where we will be doing exactly this. We make our own laws. We are about to have a bonfire of EU legislation with poorly thought through and improperly tested alternatives. Expect the situation to get much worse. We are a G8 country that has certain standards to uphold to keep our position in the club' it impacts our credit rating and currency value. Of course we could become a rogue state but we know where that leads. Like it or not the whole Rawanda fiasco is another windrush compensation claim waiting to happen. We need to start properly processing migrants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, oowee said: Because we would do more foreign aid work. Before you pour scorn. Think about the next stage of the climate crisis where we will be doing exactly this. What has the climate 'crisis' got to do with illegal immigration from France ? If what you are saying is , its going to get worse because the global mean temps have gone up half a degree in the last 50 years , then all I can say is , the worse it gets , the more far right it gets.... 8 minutes ago, oowee said: We make our own laws. We are about to have a bonfire of EU legislation with poorly thought through and improperly tested alternatives. Expect the situation to get much worse. I would wait until we know what the alternatives are before you decry them. 8 minutes ago, oowee said: We are a G8 country that has certain standards to uphold to keep our position in the club' it impacts our credit rating and currency value. Of course we could become a rogue state but we know where that leads. I think youll find its the G7 now since Russia got kicked out. But then they let the EU in , that isnt even a country Strange how the US can pretty much do what it likes , and its never a rogue state ? I wonder how they would deal with the type of migrants we receive in dinghies ? 13 minutes ago, oowee said: Like it or not the whole Rawanda fiasco is another windrush compensation claim waiting to happen. We need to start properly processing migrants. Give me an example how you would deal with it , and does it involve making it more or less attractive to jumping in an inflatable ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 there has been alot of talk about suella braverman being the best man for the job............ SHE WONT MAKE ONE BIT OF DIFFERENCE....IT WILL BE BUISSNESS AS USUAL...AND IT WILL GET WORSE AND WORSE AND WORSE............... nobody has the balls to sort it ....the govt is staffed by cowards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Give me an example how you would deal with it , and does it involve making it more or less attractive to jumping in an inflatable ? Publish a statement of what and who we will allow to come into the UK. Open a resourced facility in France that can process in a timely fashion. Immediately no need for a dinghy for a genuine refugee. Those that still persist to cross the Channel get processed properly based in a centre. They would clearly have to pass a high bench mark of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, ditchman said: there has been alot of talk about suella braverman being the best man for the job............ SHE WONT MAKE ONE BIT OF DIFFERENCE....IT WILL BE BUISSNESS AS USUAL...AND IT WILL GET WORSE AND WORSE AND WORSE............... nobody has the balls to sort it ....the govt is staffed by cowards What is the problem?...https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/what-is-the-problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Hello, it's an absolute shambles, it's costing UK tax payers millions a day to house all the illegal immigrants while 100s of 1000s are going hungary and cold in the UK , we need to get tough on macron , boycott French wine to start, 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 54 minutes ago, Scully said: Talking of Sweden, is this true? Interesting, no actual links anywhere to the survey so no way to check how many were polled, question asked, methodology etc. However the online newspaper (Bulletin) that commissioned the survey went bankrupt in February, it seems to be far right and has been embroiled in internal strife since day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 20 minutes ago, old'un said: What is the problem?...https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/what-is-the-problem While they are supposed to be independent think tank they sometimes get it Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, it's an absolute shambles, it's costing UK tax payers millions a day to house all the illegal immigrants while 100s of 1000s are going hungary and cold in the UK , we need to get tough on macron , boycott French wine to start, 🤔 But look at the savings we are making not employing border force staff. Thank goodness we are out of the EU the situation is so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, it's an absolute shambles, it's costing UK tax payers millions a day to house all the illegal immigrants while 100s of 1000s are going hungary and cold in the UK , we need to get tough on macron , boycott French wine to start, 🤔 If they are here illegally do they get anything at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 34 minutes ago, ditchman said: there has been alot of talk about suella braverman being the best man for the job............ SHE WONT MAKE ONE BIT OF DIFFERENCE....IT WILL BE BUISSNESS AS USUAL...AND IT WILL GET WORSE AND WORSE AND WORSE............... nobody has the balls to sort it ....the govt is staffed by cowards She probably has which is why all the woke/civil servants are doing all they can to get her removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 15 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: She probably has which is why all the woke/civil servants are doing all they can to get her removed. I guess you are happy with lax security within the cabinet office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, oowee said: I guess you are happy with lax security within the cabinet office. I'm less happy with the non-existent security at our borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, oowee said: I guess you are happy with lax security within the cabinet office. No, I am not happy with lax security within the cabinet office staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 34 minutes ago, henry d said: While they are supposed to be independent think tank they sometimes get it Wrong is that all of the report or just that bit? 32 minutes ago, henry d said: If they are here illegally do they get anything at all? Illegal immigrants cannot claim benefits in the UK, but if they call themselves Refugees/ asylum seekers they can claim benefits of £15,410 for doing sweet FA (London) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 hour ago, old'un said: What is the problem?...https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/what-is-the-problem thank you for putting up that link...........well written report........full of facts and appears to be well researched its 100% accurate and 100% useless..............including the internal link to how we sort the problem....and this is the bloody merry go round....people being paid lots of money to produce reports........we all know for gods sake what needs to be done......but the govt is full of lick spittle cowards.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 50 minutes ago, henry d said: If they are here illegally do they get anything at all? Hello, yes , hotel accomodation and food every day, it's more than the 1000s of homeless get in uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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