Hampshire Constabulary Suspending Firearms Grant Application Service

[Minky]

And Suddenly we have all accepted the need for doctors certs.  This was just another hoop to jump through for no good reason.  Every time I go to the doctor, that doctor could be one of many in the practice that have never seen me, knows nothing about me other than any prescriptions that I might be currently on.  Unless I am a raving nutter they won't have a clue about whether I am going to snap about the price of chocolate biscuits and go down and strafe up my local Tesco.  Plod has known all about the nutters that have gone on the rampage and have never done anything about it at all.  We had a member of the public who came to our club and was a person you wouldn't give a catapult to.  The club spoke to plod about how the club was VERY concerned about this persons suitability.  Said person went to another club to try to get membership and that club also contacted plod about this blokes suitability.  What happened.?  plod issued matey with a SGC and An FAC.!!!  work that one out.  one day he'll be on the evening news.  Pound to a pinch of residue.  100%.

How can the police be in charge of issuing firearms certificates.?  There must a conflict of interest here.  Surely this should be down to an independent body without an agenda .  and where are the lame shooting orgs ??  other than saying that they're doing their best.  still I suppose that they can't spend the money on a court case because they might have to forgo their new range rover's.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

5 hours ago, Minky said:

And Suddenly we have all accepted the need for doctors certs.  This was just another hoop to jump through for no good reason.  Every time I go to the doctor, that doctor could be one of many in the practice that have never seen me, knows nothing about me other than any prescriptions that I might be currently on.  Unless I am a raving nutter they won't have a clue about whether I am going to snap about the price of chocolate biscuits and go down and strafe up my local Tesco.  Plod has known all about the nutters that have gone on the rampage and have never done anything about it at all.  We had a member of the public who came to our club and was a person you wouldn't give a catapult to.  The club spoke to plod about how the club was VERY concerned about this persons suitability.  Said person went to another club to try to get membership and that club also contacted plod about this blokes suitability.  What happened.?  plod issued matey with a SGC and An FAC.!!!  work that one out.  one day he'll be on the evening news.  Pound to a pinch of residue.  100%.

How can the police be in charge of issuing firearms certificates.?  There must a conflict of interest here.  Surely this should be down to an independent body without an agenda .  and where are the lame shooting orgs ??  other than saying that they're doing their best.  still I suppose that they can't spend the money on a court case because they might have to forgo their new range rover's.

Yes we have, it would have been nice if our chosen Shooting Associations had fought our corner, but they accepted it and we followed.

Do you have any workable solutions?

[Walker570]

On 24/01/2022 at 19:29, Old farrier said:

I’m sure they will have to wait in turn like the rest of us civilians and probably have far more stringent criteria to meet 

The number being locked up for rape etc in the Met and the fact that applications to join the force are not now being done face to face seems to indicate the opposite.

I'm afraid I have to say it again...Read the book it explains it all.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Walker570

[Old farrier]

9 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

The number being locked up for rape etc in the Met and the fact that applications to join the force are not now being done face to face seems to indicate the opposite.

I'm afraid I have to say it again...Read the book it explains it all.

Just exactly what book are you referring to just so I can reread them 

[Scrimshanker]

7 hours ago, Minky said:

And Suddenly we have all accepted the need for doctors certs.  This was just another hoop to jump through for no good reason.  Every time I go to the doctor, that doctor could be one of many in the practice that have never seen me, knows nothing about me other than any prescriptions that I might be currently on.  Unless I am a raving nutter they won't have a clue about whether I am going to snap about the price of chocolate biscuits and go down and strafe up my local Tesco.  Plod has known all about the nutters that have gone on the rampage and have never done anything about it at all.  We had a member of the public who came to our club and was a person you wouldn't give a catapult to.  The club spoke to plod about how the club was VERY concerned about this persons suitability.  Said person went to another club to try to get membership and that club also contacted plod about this blokes suitability.  What happened.?  plod issued matey with a SGC and An FAC.!!!  work that one out.  one day he'll be on the evening news.  Pound to a pinch of residue.  100%.

How can the police be in charge of issuing firearms certificates.?  There must a conflict of interest here.  Surely this should be down to an independent body without an agenda .  and where are the lame shooting orgs ??  other than saying that they're doing their best.  still I suppose that they can't spend the money on a court case because they might have to forgo their new range rover's.

How are we supposed to get our grants etc if we don’t accept the GP forms being required? Not a lot we as applicants can do, we either accept and do as required to get our applications accepted or refuse and not have a chance at all? My first application went in without the GP forms and the application was rejected within 24 hours and refunded. There is no escaping this requirement now unless the shooting associations push back. I do totally agree with what you are saying though. 

[Walker570]

Tango Juliet Foxtrot available on Amazon. I cannot get it out of my wifes hands at the moment and having to cook my own meals. She is also a retired police officer and tells me the book reiterates what we have been say for years.  The Job is Foxtrotted.

[Pops_Hants]

Update for anyone who is interested, 

I emailed Hants Firearms today the following,

As communicated December 23rd 2021, applications for new Shotgun Grants were suspended to allow Hampshire Police to support NHS colleagues during the Omicron emergency boost programme.

With the news that all Covid restrictions, including mandatory isolation are to end Thursday 24th February, does this mean that Hampshire Police & staff will no longer be supporting an Omicron booster programme, thus allowing for the application of new grants to reopen?
 

The reply,

Good Afternoon Mr

Initially the suspension of grants was due to covid restrictions as we couldn't carry out home visits.  Now we have some resourcing issues but we're busy recruiting so hopefully we will be able to provide a full service again in the next few months. 

 

Not that I am skeptic at all, but I thought I'd check out the Hants careers page for current postings. I couldn't find anything specifically relating to the Firearms Team, only a Researcher and Analyst who would specialise in Rural Crime.

https://careers.newjob.org.uk/HC/go/All-Hampshire-Constabulary-Jobs/3196101/

Looks like we'll be waiting a while longer for the applications to reopen again. If they don't reopen ahead of July then I'll need a new Med Cert which will be a right ball ache as my Doctors gave me my last one for free by accident (I offered to pay at the time). Might get charged double next time haha!

 

[Walker570]

That really is pathetic isn't it. Needs a letter to Priti Patel in the strongest terms and by our supposed represenatives

BASC etc   wake up will you.

[Pops_Hants]

8 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

That really is pathetic isn't it. Needs a letter to Priti Patel in the strongest terms and by our supposed represenatives

BASC etc   wake up will you.

I don't know what to think, I wonder what their actual backlog is, how many renewals are currently awaiting approval.

BASC don't seem to be all that interested, they make a little noise to begin with but then go silent.

[Scrimshanker]

This is so frustrating, the wildfowling clubs are opening for next seasons applicants and with no idea when a SGC would be issued it will be another year missed! I really don’t understand why they didn’t keep all applications that were already in and just stop the additional applications. That way all of us with our GP forms paid for won’t have the risk of having to pay AGAIN! Oh and the lost time in waiting for the GP complete them. 

[Pops_Hants]

12 hours ago, Azza14786 said:

This is so frustrating, the wildfowling clubs are opening for next seasons applicants and with no idea when a SGC would be issued it will be another year missed! I really don’t understand why they didn’t keep all applications that were already in and just stop the additional applications. That way all of us with our GP forms paid for won’t have the risk of having to pay AGAIN! Oh and the lost time in waiting for the GP complete them. 

Because new applications require a home visit and they didn’t want to do them for fear of spreading covid. That’s the reason, but can’t say I agree in particular. Could’ve just asked applications to provide a negative test result (like they did for hospitality). Can’t keep blaming covid

[TIGHTCHOKE]

But stopping grants and continuing with renewals had to be done.

But I do agree, they cannot continue to blame covid anymore.

[Modafinale]

All the good people at supermarket’s worked through Coronavirus, but Firearms officials thought it to dangerous to glove and mask 🤔

[Scully]

On 24/02/2022 at 19:31, Modafinale said:

All the good people at supermarket’s worked through Coronavirus, but Firearms officials thought it to dangerous to glove and mask 🤔

This. 

[HantsRob]

On 24/02/2022 at 19:31, Modafinale said:

All the good people at supermarket’s worked through Coronavirus, but Firearms officials thought it to dangerous to glove and mask 🤔

To be fair it will have been a decision from the op team dealing with covid and policies around all areas of the business. It won’t have been a decision from the licencing team. 

[clangerman]

41 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

To be fair it will have been a decision from the op team dealing with covid and policies around all areas of the business. It won’t have been a decision from the licencing team. 

and what’s your excuse for speed vans managing to operate with no change during covid children were still raped our homes still robbed and their best response is a speed ticket for the offender 

[Old farrier]

23 minutes ago, clangerman said:

and what’s your excuse for speed vans managing to operate with no change during covid children were still raped our homes still robbed and their best response is a speed ticket for the offender 

Are you in Hampshire? 
did you get a speeding ticket?

was your house robbed?

 

[clangerman]

35 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Are you in Hampshire? 
did you get a speeding ticket?

was your house robbed?

 

with the entire country awash with crime you can enjoy being a victim anywhere now a case of WHEN your a victim not IF and yes almost had a ticket last week on a side street no less with a massive rate of burglary so fear not while some poor terrified pensioner was probably being raped or robbed the 20mph was being enforced! 

[Old farrier]

Just now, clangerman said:

with the entire country awash with crime you can enjoy being a victim anywhere now a case of WHEN your a victim not IF and yes almost had a ticket last week on a side street no less with a massive rate of burglary so fear not while some poor terrified pensioner was probably being raped or robbed the 20mph was being enforced! 

So you’re adding to the crime statistics taking police officers away from sorting out the real crime you keep banging on about 

[clangerman]

20 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

So you’re adding to the crime statistics taking police officers away from sorting out the real crime you keep banging on about 

no unfortunately the honour of wasting police officers goes to their superiors or I would scrap the vans and put those inside back on the beat rather than pick our pockets under the pretence of reducing speeding 

[Ferretlurcher1970]

They only mince around in pairs

[grahamch]

On 09/02/2022 at 07:02, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Yes we have, it would have been nice if our chosen Shooting Associations had fought our corner, but they accepted it and we followed.

Do you have any workable solutions?

Why have they accepted it? Guess because they are toothless or pucilanamous. Are they worth our hard earned pounds if they won't stand up for us?  After all this was brought in due to an rsea up by the police

Edited February 26, 2022 by grahamch

[HantsRob]

On 26/02/2022 at 21:13, clangerman said:

and what’s your excuse for speed vans managing to operate with no change during covid children were still raped our homes still robbed and their best response is a speed ticket for the offender 

I have no excuses. Only facts based on.... facts. Ok, let me address the other points...... then I'll bow out.

"Speed vans" are part of the safer roads partnership, and have no warranted police officers inside them. They have civilian operators earning a low band of pay unlike the scales afforded to Police Constables. For Hampshire specifically I'd signpost you (see what I did there?) to here:

https://www.hants.gov.uk/transport/roadsafety/makingroadssafer

This will show you the work they do, including making the roads safer for the most vulnerable of road users. If you hate pedestrians or cyclists you may hate the work they do also, so free fuel to your fire. Anyway, it's a partnership of councils and the courts and Police, and whilst warranted officers may run the team, all the people on the roads doing the work are civvies. As for the penalties.... if you are afforded a driver awareness course, the costs pay for the trainer, hall costs, overheads etc. If you have an EFPN then that money does not go to the Police directly, it goes back to the government via the central ticket office. So, there is no incentive to catch more. Finally, with it typically being set to 10%+2mph, you should know if you're speeding. You may disagree with the limits in place, but they are the same for everyone. They only "catch you out" if you are speeding or "not aware" and therefore not in complete control of your vehicle. 

Removing the camera vans and operators will not stop a rapist. It will not stop domestic abuse. Policing by and large is reactive, and even if your county had 10,000 extra officers, it won't stop a rape. So lets stop the poor comparison. It could potentially reduce burglary, but knowing the type of people that do it I very much doubt it. They would just go to lesser patrolled areas. 

When you've scooped more dead kids off the road than I have and had to deal with the families and the aftermath all the way through to coroners court, then you come up to me in person and have a whisper in my ear and tell me that attempts to reduce road injury or deaths by various means - including camera vans - is pointless and doesn't affect rape or burglary..... you'll have an honest and open debate to explain a few facts of life.

 

Finally, camera vans are single crewed without interraction with the public, and therefore are "covid safe" and could continue to be operated during a pandemic. 

I really have no energy to reply further on this specific topic, I will happily reply to comments relating to the OP but this one needs to end here. 

 

On 26/02/2022 at 22:55, clangerman said:

no unfortunately the honour of wasting police officers goes to their superiors or I would scrap the vans and put those inside back on the beat rather than pick our pockets under the pretence of reducing speeding 

As stated, no police officers work the frontline there. Also have a google of the funding of the safer roads partnership. 
Removing them will NOT give the police spare cash for warranted police officers. 

Also your pocket is only "picked" if you break the speed limits by a considerable amount. Don't speed = no fine. Most of us manage it quite successfully, or at least to use Waze or similar to not get caught.

Have you thought about becoming a freeman? Police LOVE dealing with people who think laws don't apply to them, I think it'd be right up your street. Become one and you'll be exempt from laws of this land. Apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land

On 26/02/2022 at 22:17, clangerman said:

with the entire country awash with crime you can enjoy being a victim anywhere now a case of WHEN your a victim not IF and yes almost had a ticket last week on a side street no less with a massive rate of burglary so fear not while some poor terrified pensioner was probably being raped or robbed the 20mph was being enforced! 

To be fair we 'enjoyed' one of the lowest crime rates ever in 2020 due to Covid..... 

Many prefer to be a survivor rather than a victim. 

20mph limit zones are usually due to a high risk of fatality, such as a school. If you think it's acceptable to speed through a 20 zone then you are more oblivious to the danger you pose to others than you realise. 

Oh and if a poor terrified pensioner (I am not sure what their financial status matters, and I am sure 'terrified' isn't required if they are being raped as it's part and parcel) is being raped, I am not sure what a civilian driver without any additional powers in law over a member of the public and without PPE is going to be able to do of any use above and beyond anyone else. Would they need knowledge this rape is happening to be able to help? I am sure if they saw it happening they'd have a go to try to stop it..... 🙄

 

Your arguments just hold zero validity.

[clangerman]

22 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

we 'enjoyed' one of the lowest crime rates ever in 2020  Your arguments just hold zero validity.

judge for yourself people! 

[HantsRob]

5 minutes ago, clangerman said:

judge for yourself people! 

Or research? It's fact. Based on your logic, you'll be pleased to see that the speed camera vans being out caused burglary to reduce by 28%, and whilst I don't have a rape statistic, both assaults and homicide went down.

See, by your logic.... removing speed camera vans we would have had MUCH higher rates of rape and burglary.

 

 

As I am guessing you don't like the guardian, the office of national statistics can help?