No Powder in Bioammo Lux Steel Carts

[Cawdor118]

Why wouldn't they have a sensitive scale on the factory line with fine enough tolerances to reject anything deviating from norm? Or, as has been said previously, has the weight differential been made up with a heavier shot charge? Weird one indeed. Just as well you never blew up your new Purdey haha. 

[enfieldspares]

True this. Hull Cartridge Company were "By Appointment" to HRH. And it is fact that ALL their cartridges for HRH were x-rayed for just this reason.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, keep us posted Bernard 👍

[Minky]

This is such a serious incident and many don't seem to have realized how serious it is. Ok it would have potentially ruined a days shooting but if the shooter hadn't realized that there had been a faulty discharge and that a wad was stuck in the baŕrel it could have resulted in a barrel burst with the possible result of a wrecked gun or serious injury or death of the user or bystanders.  Surely the product must be recalled and an investigation by the proof house as to where production has gone to and where any product is now.  I would have thought that the column height of the rounds without powder would be incorrect thus resulting in a low dished crimp. A visual sign that something was different. 

[rbrowning2]

3 hours ago, Minky said:

This is such a serious incident and many don't seem to have realized how serious it is. Ok it would have potentially ruined a days shooting but if the shooter hadn't realized that there had been a faulty discharge and that a wad was stuck in the baŕrel it could have resulted in a barrel burst with the possible result of a wrecked gun or serious injury or death of the user or bystanders.  Surely the product must be recalled and an investigation by the proof house as to where production has gone to and where any product is now.  I would have thought that the column height of the rounds without powder would be incorrect thus resulting in a low dished crimp. A visual sign that something was different. 

U.K. proof house may take an interest but given the cartridges are manufactured in Spain it should be for the Spanish proof house to investigate. But given nobody was harmed or any property damaged the situation most likely will be sorted between the retailer, importers and manufacture.

I do agree the lot (but which lot the size 3 or size 4 shot or both) should be recalled and destroyed, the next person may not be so vigilant. Use Eley.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

9 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

U.K. proof house may take an interest but given the cartridges are manufactured in Spain it should be for the Spanish proof house to investigate. But given nobody was harmed or any property damaged the situation most likely will be sorted between the retailer, importers and manufacture.

I do agree the lot (but which lot the size 3 or size 4 shot or both) should be recalled and destroyed, the next person may not be so vigilant. Use Eley.

Possible interest from Proof Houses if the cartridges were over charged with powder for safety's sake.

Not much for them to go at when no powder!

[Bernard]

Contacted both Bioammo and JustCartridges. Bioammo say they’re treating as a serious incident etc.  Investigation in progress and will come back to me.

JustCartridges have been obviously excellent.  They’ve already contacted the importer to enquire if any other issues reported (there are none).  They are going to grab them from me and replace with something suitable but as yet undetermined (just because we haven’t decided yet that’s all).  

As part of the discussion with JC about my belief that it’s a dud batch I agreed to cut at least one from each box open.  I have now opened 15 random cartridges including at least one from each box in the slab and 13 out of 15 had no propellant.  So it’s not quite the whole case but enough to seriously undermine my confidence in this particular batch.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

22 minutes ago, Bernard said:

Contacted both Bioammo and JustCartridges. Bioammo say they’re treating as a serious incident etc.  Investigation in progress and will come back to me.

JustCartridges have been obviously excellent.  They’ve already contacted the importer to enquire if any other issues reported (there are none).  They are going to grab them from me and replace with something suitable but as yet undetermined (just because we haven’t decided yet that’s all).  

As part of the discussion with JC about my belief that it’s a dud batch I agreed to cut at least one from each box open.  I have now opened 15 random cartridges including at least one from each box in the slab and 13 out of 15 had no propellant.  So it’s not quite the whole case but enough to seriously undermine my confidence in this particular batch.

That is good news, glad both parties are behaving responsibly.

Did you get anywhere with some compensation for a wasted day?

[Minky]

When things like this happen the companies  are only to quick to come and grab the evidence back into hand. Even though they have been made in another country they will still come under rules regarding the manufacture and sale of this product. It's not like it's a tin of beans or something.  If the shooter hadn't noticed OR been aware of the fact that the wad was stuck in the choke there could have been a serious result.  I myself had an incident where I fired at a clay with my 28G.  There was an odd "bloomp" sound and I actually saw the lead fly through the air and smash the clay.  Fortunately I  looked through the tubes and noticed that one was blocked.   Luckily I had taken a second gun.  When I got home I attached a pair of mole grips to the petals of the wad and on to a spring balance.   It got up to 40lbs pull when the petals tore off the base.  Eventually I  had to get a rod and beat the wad out with a hammer.  If I been so keen to get shooting the next clay and not checked out the blockage the result could have been very expensive and even life changing.  There is no way that I would be handing the faulty cartridges over just for a replacement offer considering the potential seriousness of this incident.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Minky

[Bernard]

7 minutes ago, Minky said:

When things like this happen the companies  are only to quick to come and grab the evidence back into hand. Even though they have been made in another country they will still come under rules regarding the manufacture and sale of this product. It's not like it's a tin of beans or something.  If the shooter hadn't noticed OR been aware of the fact that the wad was stuck in the choke there could have been a serious result.  I myself had an incident where I fired at a clay with my 28G.  There was an odd "bloomp" sound and I actually saw the lead fly through the air and smash the clay.  Fortunately I  looked through the tubes and noticed that one was blocked.   Luckily I had taken a second gun.  When I got home I attached a pair of mole grips to the petals of the wad and on to a spring balance.   It got up to 40lbs pull when the petals tore off the base.  Eventually I  had to get a rod and beat the wad out with a hammer.  If I been so keen to get shooting the next clay and not checked out the blockage the result could have been very expensive and even life changing.  There is no way that I would be handing the faulty cartridges over just for a replacement offer considering the potential seriousness of this incident.

It’s an interesting perspective and my main motivation for discussing and displaying evidence in a public space to warn others of the potential issue and to allow others with similar issues to see and join any future dots.  No QC will ever stop these sorts of incidents as you yourself have found and the importer, Shooting Star, have had no other reports.

Can I ask what you would do rather than send back and accept the exchange?

[rbrowning2]

17 minutes ago, Minky said:

When things like this happen the companies  are only to quick to come and grab the evidence back into hand. Even though they have been made in another country they will still come under rules regarding the manufacture and sale of this product. It's not like it's a tin of beans or something.  If the shooter hadn't noticed OR been aware of the fact that the wad was stuck in the choke there could have been a serious result.  I myself had an incident where I fired at a clay with my 28G.  There was an odd "bloomp" sound and I actually saw the lead fly through the air and smash the clay.  Fortunately I  looked through the tubes and noticed that one was blocked.   Luckily I had taken a second gun.  When I got home I attached a pair of mole grips to the petals of the wad and on to a spring balance.   It got up to 40lbs pull when the petals tore off the base.  Eventually I  had to get a rod and beat the wad out with a hammer.  If I been so keen to get shooting the next clay and not checked out the blockage the result could have been very expensive and even life changing.  There is no way that I would be handing the faulty cartridges over just for a replacement offer considering the potential seriousness of this incident.

yes but in my experience the cartridge manufactures covers their backside, by a warning on the cartridge cartoon, words like if you experience a flat or unexpected report, stop shooting and check the barrel/s.

And …. guarantees the exercise of reasonable care in manufacture, but assumes no further responsibility.

always worth reading the small print, would it stand up in a court of law? Don’t know but guess that is why we are encourage to have insurance via the likes of CPSA, BASC, NGO, etc.

 

 

[rbrowning2]

42 minutes ago, Bernard said:

  No QC will ever stop these sorts of incidents……

Really, then we may as well not bother with QC at all, however in this incident of no powder the fault lies with the machine operator.

[Smokersmith]

2 hours ago, Minky said:

There is no way that I would be handing the faulty cartridges over just for a replacement offer considering the potential seriousness of this incident.

Having secured the evidence, what outcome did you achieve?

[Bernard]

2 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

Really, then we may as well not bother with QC at all, however in this incident of no powder the fault lies with the machine operator.

I missed the word “all”.  I meant no QC will give a 100% guarantee.

[B725]

Any update on this?

[alic]

I have a slab of 32 4’s , only 2 boxes in but all have gone bang

[Old farrier]

6 minutes ago, alic said:

I have a slab of 32 4’s , only 2 boxes in but all have gone bang

That’s good news

just a thought there’s a possibility that the spare powder could be in the next ones by way of a double charge 

As the quality control is poor can we really trust them?

[alic]

On 04/01/2022 at 19:07, Bernard said:

I missed the word “all”.  I meant no QC will give a 100% guarantee.

I understand that, I bought a slab of gamebore DS steel last season  and retuned after 2 boxes - they were awful I couldn’t even use the for Claus, won’t use Gambore again - probably excessive but confidence and wallet dented. I am very happy with these 

[Bernard]

On 19/01/2022 at 13:06, B725 said:

Any update on this?

Cartridges back with Bioammo.  Internal investigation etc.  contacted by Bioammo and the Uk distributor got involved.  JC replaced with different carts. Still a bit disappointed with the QC.  That case must have been around 350-500grams lighter than standard based on just under 2 grams powder per cart and the numbers of uncharged cases.  It should be absurdly simple to check that.  Still no tales of anyone else having issues.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Bernard what would you have been happy with from BioAmmo?

[Bernard]

On 24/01/2022 at 07:45, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Bernard what would you have been happy with from BioAmmo?

Not sure what you mean.  Do you mean what would I expect from QC or what carts would I be happy to use from them?  I ended up with a slab of 3s and a slab of 5s from different batch numbers.   Because no one else has reported anything I’m reasonably confident in a limited balls up in that slab.

 

in terms of personal inconvenience, when it happened I was carrying a few in my pocket for ducks when out on geese.  I was shooting RC Atomic 1s at the Greylags.  Just had a bit of an interruption to clear the barrel and stay on the RCs.

side note:  wish there was a high performance degradable wad in 1s or BBs.  It’s a smaller market though.

in short, I’m over it. I more ways than one.  I’ve decided that I need to apply myself to the development of a few hand rolled loads to suit my exact needs for wildfowl.

Bernard

[novice cushie shooter]

i have just stumbled upon this thread unfortunately after buying a slab of the same lot 195012. was there any recall for this batch? given the ops issue i am amazed if the full batch was not recalled.

[Bernard]

39 minutes ago, novice cushie shooter said:

i have just stumbled upon this thread unfortunately after buying a slab of the same lot 195012. was there any recall for this batch? given the ops issue i am amazed if the full batch was not recalled.

Not that I am aware of. JC collected the slab when they dropped off a substitute for me. UK importer and Bioammo were both in loop.  Not sure if you’ve shot any yet but it’s with having something to push a wad back out with. It’s very obvious when it’s a squib load with primer only. I’m not aware of any other reports from the batch.

[Old farrier]

3 minutes ago, Bernard said:

Not that I am aware of. JC collected the slab when they dropped off a substitute for me. UK importer and Bioammo were both in loop.  Not sure if you’ve shot any yet but it’s with having something to push a wad back out with. It’s very obvious when it’s a squib load with primer only. I’m not aware of any other reports from the batch.

Or maybe weigh each cartridge I know it’s a pain but better safe 

[novice cushie shooter]

will try them out soon. tha ks for the info will keep you posted on mine