Ukrainian gives citizens the right to bear arms.

[bottletopbill]

Now we know why Putin is doing this. Sorry I did not know and wonder how many other's were ignorant of these facts   👍 

[NoBodyImportant]

5 minutes ago, bottletopbill said:

Now we know why Putin is doing this. Sorry I did not know and wonder how many other's were ignorant of these facts   👍 

Playing devils advocate here but Putin did make some good points.  The overwhelmingly Russian speaking eastern Ukrainians were being horribly treated after they voted for independence, borderline ethnic cleansing. But I honestly don’t think Putin cares about the people as much as he does deep water harbors and resources.  

[Mice!]

39 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Playing devils advocate here but Putin did make some good points.  The overwhelmingly Russian speaking eastern Ukrainians were being horribly treated after they voted for independence, borderline ethnic cleansing. But I honestly don’t think Putin cares about the people as much as he does deep water harbors and resources.  

Of course he doesn't,  but had anyone seen anything about the Eastern Ukrainians being mistreated in the media? If 8t was Russia doing the borderline ethnic cleansing it would be front page news.

It's a convenient reason for his actions with the big question being will he stop at the Ukraine?

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, maybe he wants to take back Russia to a century ago

Hello, Lots of Russian citizens in Latvia ?? Let's face it even 10,000 AK 47s are no match for Putin's guided missile bombs, I think those Ukrainians bearing Arms are very brave people but I hope there is still time for Russian forces to back off Ukraine, around 200 have been killed and there are more casualties, I see a Hospital was bombed, Putin's showing his worse side just like other mad men in history, 

Edited February 26, 2022 by oldypigeonpopper

[NoBodyImportant]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Of course he doesn't,  but had anyone seen anything about the Eastern Ukrainians being mistreated in the media? If 8t was Russia doing the borderline ethnic cleansing it would be front page news.

It's a convenient reason for his actions with the big question being will he stop at the Ukraine?

 

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Of course he doesn't,  but had anyone seen anything about the Eastern Ukrainians being mistreated in the media? If 8t was Russia doing the borderline ethnic cleansing it would be front page news.

It's a convenient reason for his actions with the big question being will he stop at the Ukraine?

Really,  the separatist and government forces have been fighting for at two years at least.  Ukrainian force have been shelling towns and population centers since the beginning.  

[oowee]

30 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

 

Really,  the separatist and government forces have been fighting for at two years at least.  Ukrainian force have been shelling towns and population centers since the beginning.  

Evidence ?

[NoBodyImportant]

22 minutes ago, oowee said:

Evidence ?

It’s literally what this whole thing is about right?  The people of Donetsk and Luhansk voted overwhelmingly to become independent from the Ukraine. The media poles had it like 75% at first but ended up at 69% for Independence and 27% to stay Ukrainian.  But being the industrial heart land the Ukrainian government said nah, we going to bomb you until you decide to stay Ukrainian.  The people there speak Russian not Ukrainian.  Plus most people have traditional views.  The Ukrainian government did not reflect the people of Donetsk or Luhansk.  You can’t hate a people for wanting to break from a union that doesn’t benefit them.  While some may claim the Ukrainian government forces attacking the people of those regions is a necessary evil for the purposes of subjugating the people I take the stand that it’s better to make the union beneficial for all parties to the extent they want to be part of the union.  Now I believe Putin is in the wrong for the Ukrainian invasion i also think the Ukraine was wrong to the attack on the Donetsk and Luhansk people.  
 

hypothetical: England just voted to break from the EU, would The EU be in the right if it invaded and shelled your fighting positions in London? Then say America invades the EU to stop the invasion of England by the EU.  Who is in the right? It’s hard to say really.  If America retreats after peace is made between England and the EU I’d say America was in the right.  If America occupies and absorbs the EU I’d say America was in the wrong.  There are several view points, Im just playing Devils Advocate.  I honestly don’t know what’s going on, I reserve the right to be wrong on anything I say. 

Copy/Paste:According to CEC spokesman Mykhailo Lysenko, a total of around 2,883,000 people voted in the counter-referendum. 69.1% (1,968,619) of those polled were reported to have voted in favour of accession to Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, 27.2% (774,912) voted against accession to Dnipropetrovsk Oblast or separation from Ukraine as part of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics, and 3.7% (105,411) voted for separation from Ukraine as part of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics.^[76]

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

So why didn't Putin stop at those two areas?

[clangerman]

wonder how the afghans are doing remember them the people whose country WE turned to rubble a population WE killed large amounts of maiming even more and a place WE stabbed in the back leaving them helpless obviously war causes amnesia round here 

[NoBodyImportant]

7 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

So why didn't Putin stop at those two areas?

Putin says his plan is to demilitarize the Ukrainian Government and has no intention of occupying the region (which I believe to be false)

[NoBodyImportant]

2 minutes ago, clangerman said:

wonder how the afghans are doing remember them the people whose country WE turned to rubble a population WE killed large amounts of maiming even more and a place WE stabbed in the back leaving them helpless obviously war causes amnesia round here 

A better connection could be made with Africa.  The Soviet Union drew management districts that did not reflect language, ethnic ties.  So when the SU broke up you end up with a large minority population in eastern Ukraine that a essentially Russian.  The same happened in Colonial Africa. 

[oowee]

18 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

It’s literally what this whole thing is about right?  ^]

 

I was asking for evidence that the Ukraine forces have been shelling population centres.

1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said:

 Ukrainian force have been shelling towns and population centers since the beginning.  

All over Europe there are population centres displaced as a result of border changes. Fort example. There are towns in Hungary that are Slovak, there are Towns in Slovakia that are Hungarian that does not mean that they should be granted autonomy based on the vote of the local population. Where should the line be drawn? 

 

[Weihrauch17]

16 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Putin says his plan is to demilitarize the Ukrainian Government and has no intention of occupying the region (which I believe to be false)

They are demilitarising him right now.

[NoBodyImportant]

13 minutes ago, oowee said:

I was asking for evidence that the Ukraine forces have been shelling population centres.

All over Europe there are population centres displaced as a result of border changes. Fort example. There are towns in Hungary that are Slovak, there are Towns in Slovakia that are Hungarian that does not mean that they should be granted autonomy based on the vote of the local population. Where should the line be drawn? 

 

It should be drawn I guess when the area population that wants independence is big enough to fight off the government that subjugated the region. Again, not taking sides. 

4 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

They are demilitarising him right now.

😂 true that. 

Ukrainian with huge balls stand in the road blocking Russian advance https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdSQ2Pr6/

[oowee]

8 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

It should be drawn I guess when the area population that wants independence is big enough to fight off the government that subjugated the region. Again, not taking sides. 

😂 true that. 

Ukrainian with huge balls stand in the road blocking Russian advance https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdSQ2Pr6/

But the area was not subjugated.  If the area wants independence, I can fully understand but it is not simply as the result of a vote. If it is to be by vote the land area, terms and process needs to be agreed by all sides. The process needs to be open and transparent not forced through by foreign agents. 

[NoBodyImportant]

19 minutes ago, oowee said:

But the area was not subjugated.  If the area wants independence, I can fully understand but it is not simply as the result of a vote. If it is to be by vote the land area, terms and process needs to be agreed by all sides. The process needs to be open and transparent not forced through by foreign agents. 

I don’t think anyone disputing the outcome of the vote.  Even the Ukrainian government didn’t dispute that the area does truly want independence.  The Ukrainians said no, your going to have to fight if you want out.  And so they did.  (Again I’m not taking sides). 

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said:

It’s literally what this whole thing is about right?  The people of Donetsk and Luhansk voted overwhelmingly to become independent from the Ukraine. The media poles had it like 75% at first but ended up at 69% for Independence and 27% to stay Ukrainian.  But being the industrial heart land the Ukrainian government said nah, we going to bomb you until you decide to stay Ukrainian.  The people there speak Russian not Ukrainian.  Plus most people have traditional views.  The Ukrainian government did not reflect the people of Donetsk or Luhansk.  You can’t hate a people for wanting to break from a union that doesn’t benefit them.  While some may claim the Ukrainian government forces attacking the people of those regions is a necessary evil for the purposes of subjugating the people I take the stand that it’s better to make the union beneficial for all parties to the extent they want to be part of the union.  Now I believe Putin is in the wrong for the Ukrainian invasion i also think the Ukraine was wrong to the attack on the Donetsk and Luhansk people.  
 

hypothetical: England just voted to break from the EU, would The EU be in the right if it invaded and shelled your fighting positions in London? Then say America invades the EU to stop the invasion of England by the EU.  Who is in the right? It’s hard to say really.  If America retreats after peace is made between England and the EU I’d say America was in the right.  If America occupies and absorbs the EU I’d say America was in the wrong.  There are several view points, Im just playing Devils Advocate.  I honestly don’t know what’s going on, I reserve the right to be wrong on anything I say. 

Copy/Paste:According to CEC spokesman Mykhailo Lysenko, a total of around 2,883,000 people voted in the counter-referendum. 69.1% (1,968,619) of those polled were reported to have voted in favour of accession to Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, 27.2% (774,912) voted against accession to Dnipropetrovsk Oblast or separation from Ukraine as part of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics, and 3.7% (105,411) voted for separation from Ukraine as part of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics.^[76]

 

I've honestly seen nothing about it, just about the only thing on UK news has been covid, if it was shown I've ignored it. 

1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Putin says his plan is to demilitarize the Ukrainian

I did hear that on the news last week, as if he was sending in the troops, neuter there military then be done, but will they stop at that. 

[NoBodyImportant]

3 minutes ago, Mice! said:

 

I did hear that on the news last week, as if he was sending in the troops, neuter there military then be done, but will they stop at that. 

Absolutely not, the Ukraine is Russia soon. 

[Walker570]

On 25/02/2022 at 00:29, Mice! said:

You would hope the people would fight for their country,  but they seem ill prepared,  10,000 rifles against an army?

From what I saw on the news this morning most people were trying to get away. 

This is what's not clear, why the Russians are invading,  I don't know anything about the war that's been going on for 8 years.

I expected the Russians to roll in with no shots fired and just say it's ours now?

Far from it Mice. They have already inflicted severe damage on the Russians with help from us providing some excellent anti tank weapons.  The Russian controlled media will never admit just how many of their young men will not be returning home this week.  They got their backsides kicked out of Afghanisstan when very lightly armed locals picked them off.

This has not been going on for 8 years it started just a week ago.

I am deeply disappointed that the Indian Government failed to vote against them, just abstained in the UN Council which is like sitting on your hands. 

[NoBodyImportant]

Yes,  some of the more graphic videos I have seen on the Reddit forum show the home guard doing very well.  The Russians seem very reluctant to harm civilians but that will wear off as the war drags on.  

[NoBodyImportant]

4 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, maybe he wants to take back Russia to a century ago

Hello, Lots of Russian citizens in Latvia ?? Let's face it even 10,000 AK 47s are no match for Putin's guided missile bombs, I think those Ukrainians bearing Arms are very brave people but I hope there is still time for Russian forces to back off Ukraine, around 200 have been killed and there are more casualties, I see a Hospital was bombed, Putin's showing his worse side just like other mad men in history, 

Check out this. gasoline, glass bottles and that armor is burning https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdSQap4q/

[scobydog]

32 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Far from it Mice. They have already inflicted severe damage on the Russians with help from us providing some excellent anti tank weapons.  The Russian controlled media will never admit just how many of their young men will not be returning home this week.  They got their backsides kicked out of Afghanisstan when very lightly armed locals picked them off.

This has not been going on for 8 years it started just a week ago.

I am deeply disappointed that the Indian Government failed to vote against them, just abstained in the UN Council which is like sitting on your hands. 

India has close ties to Russia these days, they use a lot of Russkie fighter jets built under licence.

[captainhastings]

Quite some thing seeing civilians picking up guns and planning to take on trained soldiers. Lots of courage being shown. So sad to know what may happen to them and fingers crossed it doesn't 

[Weihrauch17]

2 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Absolutely not, the Ukraine is Russia soon. 

Cross round his neck!!  Bet he has 666 on his scalp.

[Walker570]

Lots of pictures coming out of lots of badly blown up and damaged Russian trucks and tanks.  The Ukrainians appear to be giving them a bloody nose.