No3 9mm garden gun problem

[chesterse]

I’ve come across one of the above but the brass 9mm cartridges I have for it will only go half way into the chamber. I’ve given it a clean and it looks clear but I guess it’s clogged up in some way. The barrel states 9mm as do the cartridges.

Any ideas?

[Andy H]

I wonder if some of the 9mm were only chambered for the solid ball/prodjectile and that cartridge was only about 15mm long compared to the std 45mm no 3 9mm.

[chesterse]

4 minutes ago, Andy H said:

I wonder if some of the 9mm were only chambered for the solid ball/prodjectile and that cartridge was only about 15mm long compared to the std 45mm no 3 9mm.

Didn’t realise that - thanks Andy.

[enfieldspares]

The shot cartridges should have a wider base and then above that base be less wide. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by enfieldspares

[ditchman]

3 hours ago, chesterse said:

I’ve come across one of the above but the brass 9mm cartridges I have for it will only go half way into the chamber. I’ve given it a clean and it looks clear but I guess it’s clogged up in some way. The barrel states 9mm as do the cartridges.

Any ideas?

sure you havnt got a broken case in the throat ?

[rovercoupe]

What model gun is it? Could it be a smoothed out rook rifle?

[Keith 66]

9mm rimfire has a bigger dia at the base as said above, this is about 9mm long from there forward its basically bore diameter with no chamber as such. The true bore diameter is approx 8mm, If the case wont go in I would suspect either heavy rusting or a previous case having separated & part of it lodged in the bore. Some of the old paper cased 9mm cartridges were quite prone to the front of the case coming off completely.

[London Best]

8 minutes ago, Keith 66 said:

9mm rimfire has a bigger dia at the base as said above, this is about 9mm long from there forward its basically bore diameter with no chamber as such. The true bore diameter is approx 8mm, If the case wont go in I would suspect either heavy rusting or a previous case having separated & part of it lodged in the bore. Some of the old paper cased 9mm cartridges were quite prone to the front of the case coming off completely.

The paper cased cartridges were actually designed to come off completely.

[wisdom]

Can you post a couple of pics.Are there any markings indicating chamber length near the proof marks.

[chesterse]

14 hours ago, wisdom said:

Can you post a couple of pics.Are there any markings indicating chamber length near the proof marks.

Had a close look and can’t see any obstruction.

 

[old'un]

Iron sights on a shotgun? Looks like its a converted rifle, what rifle I have no idea.

Can you put a picture up showing how far the cartridge goes into the breech/chamber before it stops.

is this like yours?..https://www.aaronwheelergunsmith.co.uk/product/9mm-rf-jga-single-shot-s-h-fac/

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by old'un

[snarepeg]

Yes could be for cap and ball having the sights.

fetched a few from Germany 70 odd years ago, 9 mm lead ball in a  short case not a lot of poke in them or accuracy out  of a Webley 9 mm😊

[chesterse]

54 minutes ago, old'un said:

Iron sights on a shotgun? Looks like its a converted rifle, what rifle I have no idea.

Can you put a picture up showing how far the cartridge goes into the breech/chamber before it stops.

is this like yours?..https://www.aaronwheelergunsmith.co.uk/product/9mm-rf-jga-single-shot-s-h-fac/

 

Can’t take any more pictures as It’s gone back to the guy who let me have a look at it.

Been keeping my eye open for a No 3 to deal with vermin around the garden. That one doesn’t seem to be what I thought it was.

 

[enfieldspares]

17 hours ago, London Best said:

The paper cased cartridges were actually designed to come off completely.

Yes. The old green and white chequered colour scheme. Indeed they were designed to come off. 

[Wylye]

4 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Yes. The old green and white chequered colour scheme. Indeed they were designed to come off. 

They were responsible for loads of fires in hay/straw stacks over the years!

[Blackpowder]

3 hours ago, old'un said:

Iron sights on a shotgun? Looks like its a converted rifle, what rifle I have no idea.

Can you put a picture up showing how far the cartridge goes into the breech/chamber before it stops.

is this like yours?..https://www.aaronwheelergunsmith.co.uk/product/9mm-rf-jga-single-shot-s-h-fac/

 

I had an 'Acme' over 60 years ago with  fixed rear sights but never managed to obtain any bullets.   Eley cartridges as has already been said were  designed to discharge the paper case through the barrel a certain fire hazard in barn or hay shed.

Blackpowder

 

[old'un]

2 hours ago, chesterse said:

Can’t take any more pictures as It’s gone back to the guy who let me have a look at it.

Been keeping my eye open for a No 3 to deal with vermin around the garden. That one doesn’t seem to be what I thought it was.

 

What was he asking for it?

They do seem to be a bit like rocking horse poo, Tony Morris Guns have few...https://www.tmguns.co.uk/9mm-garden-guns-for-sale.html

[chesterse]

3 minutes ago, old'un said:

What was he asking for it?

They do seem to be a bit like rocking horse poo, Tony Morris Guns have few...https://www.tmguns.co.uk/9mm-garden-guns-for-sale.html

We never got as far as price. I was thinking in the £30/£40 mark. Thanks for the link.

[old'un]

27 minutes ago, Blackpowder said:

I had an 'Acme' over 60 years ago with  fixed rear sights but never managed to obtain any bullets.   Eley cartridges as has already been said were  designed to discharge the paper case through the barrel a certain fire hazard in barn or hay shed.

Blackpowder

 

many moons ago I had a .22 shotgun, it was ok for flies and mice at 4 foot but not much else, mind you I was a bit naughty as I used to make lead balls and stick a .22 long blank behind them.

 

15 minutes ago, chesterse said:

We never got as far as price. I was thinking in the £30/£40 mark. Thanks for the link.

thats ok, hope you find something. 

you could try wabbitbosher, he seems to have all sorts of guns...https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/profile/686-wabbitbosher/

Edited January 3, 2023 by old'un

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, old'un said:

I used to make lead balls and stick a .22 long blank behind them.

That's very very wicked. Very wicked. Some..so I heard...used .22 Eley Wasp air pellets for the same wicked purpose.

[enfieldspares]

These 9mm shotguns are really pretty useless as others will attest. And the price of the cartridges is...wow...expensive! FWIW they'd be cheaper (but likely be reclassed under 1988 Act powers as illegal as they could then use .38 Special or .357 Magnum ammunition) if converted to use centrefire .357 Maximum cases (or .38 Special or .357 Magnum) with plastic shot capsules as CCI-Speer one marketed. At least the cost would be cheap AND you could load English #9 or English #12 to give a usable squirrel or rat killing pattern. My own advice would be to load you own reduced powder .410" cartridges or in trees on squirrels use Lyalvale Fourten 2" English #9 cartridges.

Edited January 3, 2023 by enfieldspares

[old'un]

6 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

That's very very wicked. Very wicked. Some..so I heard...used .22 Eley Wasp air pellets for the same wicked purpose.

yep, miss spent youth, if I told my FEO some of the things we used to get up-to he would be knocking on my door with some mates, oops, I just have.

[Andy H]

I wonder if some of the 9mm were only chambered for the solid ball/prodjectile and that cartridge was only about 15mm long compared to the std 45mm no 3 9mm.

[old'un]

10 minutes ago, Andy H said:

I wonder if some of the 9mm were only chambered for the solid ball/prodjectile and that cartridge was only about 15mm long compared to the std 45mm no 3 9mm.

Very possible, I wonder if there was any rifling in the barrel?

[Keith 66]

I didnt realise the old paper cased ones were designed to separate, every days a school day!

I have a Gaucher Gazelle, usually these were six shot magazines making them fac, mine has had its mag shortened & fixed in place so it loads from the top 2 in mag plus 1 up the spout. Essex police were quite happy with that. They did ask the barrel length though, A lot of older 9mm garden guns had 18" barrels.

 A friend sadly deceased had an Anschutz version, these are well made on the same bolt action as the .22 so well capable of taking higher pressures. He handloaded with a .31 calibre patched lead ball & got similar speeds to a .22 rf with acceptable accuracy out to 20 yards or so. He used it for whacking foxes & said it was virtually silent with a moderator. It would be interesting to see what a rifled version is really capable off though i doubt any of us will do it here now!