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Do you trust BASC


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20 minutes ago, Fellside said:

felt it necessary to put some of the more irrational BASC hatred

Who has said anything irrational ?
Who has mentioned hatred of BASC ?

Questions have been asked , statements have been made, Ive seen no one give informed answers, I have seen a few try to refute the statements using their own opinion.
On a thread entitled 'Do you trust BASC ? '  The only statement from a BASC rep, is to defend the man who tried to ban lead 8 years ago , and is still trying ?!

Doesnt look good does it , when shooting faces one of the worst existential threats its ever had.

 

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1 hour ago, Scully said:

Not much needs to be banned to be honest, for my first paragraph to become a reality, all that needs to happen is for your average bloke to be priced out of shooting. 

This, I fear, is where we will end up. Although when I sold my Boss in December 2021 I took a loss on it (sold due to BASC's lead shot announcement...I am a beliver in "playing the percentages") the price I then got for it would know cover the cost of a PAIR of London sidelocks of similar age and condition. But if licence fees do increase there will be another effective "cull" of many many owners of but one .22" R/F or but one shotgun. And the already dismal market values of such will tumble further.

Edited by enfieldspares
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15 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Who has said anything irrational ?
Who has mentioned hatred of BASC ?

Questions have been asked , statements have been made, Ive seen no one give informed answers, I have seen a few try to refute the statements using their own opinion.
On a thread entitled 'Do you trust BASC ? '  The only statement from a BASC rep, is to defend the man who tried to ban lead 8 years ago , and is still trying ?!

Doesnt look good does it , when shooting faces one of the worst existential threats its ever had.

 

Good grief. 

Please read my last contribution: “Before this all kicks off again - my comments here are not directed at any single individual.”

I mentioned the war - but obviously didn’t get away with it. 
PW at its best is marvellous, but at its worst it’s like this. 

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1 hour ago, Bear68 said:

@enfieldspares. A point of fact; the announcement made regarding the 'voluntary' phase out of lead was not made by BASC alone. Signatories included the Countryside Alliance, National Gamekeepers Organisation, GWCT, Scottish Association of Country Sports and several others. 

Yes. Correct 100%. But not CPSA however and the man at SACS told me that he was told by BASC that as "everyone else" was on board he ought to sign it too. So he did. But correct I also wouldn't be a member of any of the above. Which is why, as I mentioned, I didn't renew with SACS.

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1 hour ago, Fellside said:

Good grief. 

Please read my last contribution: “Before this all kicks off again - my comments here are not directed at any single individual.”

I mentioned the war - but obviously didn’t get away with it. 
PW at its best is marvellous, but at its worst it’s like this. 

8 hours ago, Fellside said:

Of course you have a right to question. You will find equally however others have a right to question your repetitive attacks. We get it! We know why you hate BASC. We got the gist a couple of days ago actually. Just a thought: in the time you’ve spent on this BASC hating thread you could have taken a newbie shooting and written to 10 MPs

 

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The amount of misinformation in this thread is absolutely ridiculous and relentless at every new post and no amount of gaslighting can hide the obvious trolling/smear campaign going on here and other recent threads dragging up events from the past as far back as the 'National Pigeon Day' decades ago! 

And when well meaning PW members spend their spare time in good faith to try to put right the latest round of misinformation, giving people the benefit of the doubt, the trolls don't even acknowledge it and move straight into another round of vitriol and false claims. What a sad state of affairs.

For those with a genuine interest in BASC some links below.

Read about BASC's work for shooting and conservation in 2021:

https://basc.org.uk/download/329547/

Sign up to BASC's weekly electronic newsletter BASC Live (you don't have to be a member):

https://basc.org.uk/basc-live/

Join BASC:

https://basc.org.uk/join/

Vote in BASC election and participate in the AGM (ask all the qs you want):

https://basc.org.uk/bascelection/

I am happy to help PW members with queries on current issues - DM or email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk

I am not engaging further in this or other similar threads but will be back again for the next call to action and I hope lots of PW members, whether BASC members or not, will get involved.

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25 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

 

My words in that particular post were clearly not about any individual….. at all. Try reading it again. You’ve rather taken this out of context by dredging up a comparison post from 8 hours ago - during a time when several other members had got fed up with your behaviour. I honestly don’t know what you hope to achieve? 

Is there any regulation on PW at all…?

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it’s the government that plans to phase out lead ammunition in a bid to protect wildlife and the environment with a two year process to review evidence. Decisions to be made on the regulation of chemicals based on the best available scientific evidence. This has been coming for a long time. It will effect all of us. The use of lead ammunition is restricted by the environmental protection regulations 1999. One way of looking at the regulations was when some wildflowers asked why is everyone else exempt and still using lead. I don’t think what was said in 2016 would influence the government to phase out lead ammunition. I don’t think a voluntary phase out of lead ammunition will influence the government. The only way is with scientific evidence, all the evidence I see is against lead in the environment put there by shooters. Unless scientific evidence for the use of lead is put forward it looks like the 1999 regulations will be updated. As conservationists we need the best scientific evidence to show lead ammunition is safe for the environment. I’ve read a lot of papers on lead pellets over the years and it’s a lot of reading against lead pellets in the environment. A lot of us do things and give our time to support shooting and shooting has changed and will see more change. 

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39 minutes ago, Fellside said:

when several other members had got fed up with your behaviour. I honestly don’t know what you hope to achieve? 

Is there any regulation on PW at all…?

I think its rather obvious what I hope to achieve, but you seem to want free speech on an important subject 'regulating'? 

Anyone who disagrees with me can use ignore, just not read it, or debate with me? 

I don't see why you have such an issue. 

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27 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I think its rather obvious what I hope to achieve, but you seem to want free speech on an important subject 'regulating'? 

Anyone who disagrees with me can use ignore, just not read it, or debate with me? 

I don't see why you have such an issue. 

Yes it’s the old fine line isn’t it -at what stage does free speech become a belligerent attack…..?

They say don’t feed the troll, I suppose my mistake was to do so. 

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14 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Yes it’s the old fine line isn’t it -at what stage does free speech become a belligerent attack…..?

 

About here.... 

15 minutes ago, Fellside said:

They say don’t feed the troll, I suppose my mistake was to do so.

I've not insulted you once, you have insulted me multiple times. 

Usually you are better than this, but questioning BASC has obviously hit a nerve with you. 

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4 hours ago, Bear68 said:

@enfieldspares. A point of fact; the announcement made regarding the 'voluntary' phase out of lead was not made by BASC alone. Signatories included the Countryside Alliance, National Gamekeepers Organisation, GWCT, Scottish Association of Country Sports and several others. 

Save your breath mate it’s pointless.

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Aaaand, after several members attempts to de rail, cancel and lock the thread, shall we continue? 

Conor has exited stage left, as he doesn't like answering genuine questions like.. 

How much is presently in BASCs fighting fund, and how much of it has been spent err, fighting? 

How many members has BASC lost over the past 5 years (they say none)? 

Do we trust BASC to defend ALL shooting against the HSE proposals, bearing in mind they just honoured the bloke who proposed them 8 years ago? 

Are these difficult questions? 🤔

Many of you have defended BASCs position on the voluntary phase out ect, saying 'the writing was on the wall' or 'everyone knew it was coming anyway' Yet Conor stated on another thread, that BASC  had no prior knowledge of an impending lead ban. 

Anyone find that strange? 

 

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On 06/03/2023 at 18:50, enfieldspares said:

This, I fear, is where we will end up. Although when I sold my Boss in December 2021 I took a loss on it (sold due to BASC's lead shot announcement...I am a beliver in "playing the percentages") the price I then got for it would know cover the cost of a PAIR of London sidelocks of similar age and condition. But if licence fees do increase there will be another effective "cull" of many many owners of but one .22" R/F or but one shotgun. And the already dismal market values of such will tumble further.

Why did you sell the gun?

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On 07/03/2023 at 01:06, Rewulf said:

Aaaand, after several members attempts to de rail, cancel and lock the thread, shall we continue? 

Conor has exited stage left, as he doesn't like answering genuine questions like.. 

How much is presently in BASCs fighting fund, and how much of it has been spent err, fighting? 

How many members has BASC lost over the past 5 years (they say none)? 

Do we trust BASC to defend ALL shooting against the HSE proposals, bearing in mind they just honoured the bloke who proposed them 8 years ago? 

Are these difficult questions? 🤔

Many of you have defended BASCs position on the voluntary phase out ect, saying 'the writing was on the wall' or 'everyone knew it was coming anyway' Yet Conor stated on another thread, that BASC  had no prior knowledge of an impending lead ban. 

Anyone find that strange? 

 

The accounts are free for anyone to view, simple google search, they’re on the Mutuals Registers as required by the FCA.

loads of articles on line about what’s been fought.

membership figures are also with the accounts, numbers went down during covid and have bobbed up and down a bit.

like it or not BASC is your best chance to stop a ban on lead, everyone has known lead is toxic for a long time, in fact I can’t believe we have been allowed to use it for so long.

I don’t see any connection with who BASC honour and the fact lead is toxic or the link with trust.

as per the last bit, Reach came into force in 2006, under the reach regs we really should have stopped using lead in a lot of circumstances, forget the government or BASC, also, a requirement of COSHH 2005, it is a requirement to use safer alternatives so again, legislation that’s existed for over 15 years.

did BASC have “insider” information? I very much doubt it, had they been expecting the HSE, government, wild justice or many other organisations to challenge the use of lead for a long time? Pretty sure they would have.

happy to answer any questions 

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28 minutes ago, merseamal said:

The accounts are free for anyone to view, simple google search, they’re on the Mutuals Registers as required by the FCA.

loads of articles on line about what’s been fought.

membership figures are also with the accounts, numbers went down during covid and have bobbed up and down a bit.

like it or not BASC is your best chance to stop a ban on lead, everyone has known lead is toxic for a long time, in fact I can’t believe we have been allowed to use it for so long.

I don’t see any connection with who BASC honour and the fact lead is toxic or the link with trust.

as per the last bit, Reach came into force in 2006, under the reach regs we really should have stopped using lead in a lot of circumstances, forget the government or BASC, also, a requirement of COSHH 2005, it is a requirement to use safer alternatives so again, legislation that’s existed for over 15 years.

did BASC have “insider” information? I very much doubt it, had they been expecting the HSE, government, wild justice or many other organisations to challenge the use of lead for a long time? Pretty sure they would have.

happy to answer any questions 

Please don’t start them off again !! 

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On 05/03/2023 at 11:54, grahamch said:

Is it not time these BASC bashing posts were banned?

It does more for shooting in general that all of the other smaller organisations put together. 

Folk moaning and complaining just sowsthe seeds of division when as a sport we should be uniting. 

Quite!

The BASC bashers have a decision to make.

If you are unhappy with your BASC membership, why don’t you leave them, there are no locks on the doors and you will have lowered your blood pressure.
And if you are not a BASC member, why are you complaining about an organisation that you are no longer a member of?

The mind boggles!

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1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

Maybe because BASC are claiming to be the voice of shooting and making decisions that affect all shooters not just their members 

The decisions that affect shooting are done by the Government through legislation, of which we all have to follow.

BASC challenges these “decisions” in the interest of all who shoot, and yes, not all are popular.

Name another org that has the same clout that BASC has?

Please don’t mention SACS or CPSA, as they simply offer cheaper insurance, which seems to be the draw for the bashers.

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