Fight for the future of game shooting - have you had your say?

[jall25]

18 minutes ago, Scully said:

I have no  no problem with a non-live quarry shooter saying they won’t sign, I’m just puzzled as to what you get from the forum considering it’s a predominantly live quarry shooting forum with only one small section given over to clay pigeon shooting. 

 

 

There is a lot of conservation talk of her Scully - a bit of crack - stuff for sale - Whats not to like hahahahah!

[HantsRob]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

I have no  no problem with a non-live quarry shooter saying they won’t sign, I’m just puzzled as to what you get from the forum considering it’s a predominantly live quarry shooting forum with only one small section given over to clay pigeon shooting. 

 

I'll take "best shooting forum predominantly UK based, with guns for sale and amazing knowledge that covers a lot of information on guns, equipment, banter, and so much non-game related chat" 

Meet like minded folk (I have shot with 4 people from this forum, all amazing people!)

Get balance

Learn. Listen. Understand. Challenge. Grow.

Edited April 12, 2023 by HantsRob

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, jall25 said:

Respectfully this is perhaps where we can let ourselves down

 

Rob has asked for some information as he is not quite sure - so why not help him make an informed decision - If he still is not for shooting of live quarry - well at least hopefully he wont be against it 

 

 

 

Rob - i will not deny a game shoot is "fun" - its a brilliant social occasion - its the culmination of many months of work - in some cases - its the opportunity to watch the droves of duck come off the ponds you have built that have been fledged from nests you constructed - Its the opportunity to watch flocks of fiches come and then return to the game covers en masse - Its the chance to see the dogs doing what they do - the people away from work and pressures in the fresh air.

The actual killing ? Its all part of it and should be as quick as possible - i would perhaps think better than the way most animals go out 

 

Keep asking the questions and maybe get out and go and see a shoot for yourself. If you dont like it no need to ever return

 

Regards

Nonsense - he wasn’t asking for info. His words: “ I am not convinced doing it for sport rather than conservation is necessarily a good thing.” On a live quarry shooting forum…?What is he going to do next - go on Mumsnet and decry women’s rights…….. 😁. It would be just about as popular.

Could we refocus on getting as many forms filled in as possible, please and thank you? It is much more urgent than entertaining bunny huggers. Any clay shoot owners, club committee people with email lists? That would be marvelous. 

[jall25]

1 minute ago, Fellside said:

Nonsense - he wasn’t asking for info. His words: “ I am not convinced doing it for sport rather than conservation is necessarily a good thing.” On a live quarry shooting forum…?What is he going to do next - go on Mumsnet and decry women’s rights…….. 😁. It would be just about as popular.

Could we refocus on getting as many forms filled in as possible, please and thank you? It is much more urgent than entertaining bunny huggers. Any clay shoot owners, club committee people with email lists? That would be marvelous. 

Poor clueless you 

Just now, jall25 said:

Poor clueless you 

I missed rude 

[Fellside]

2 hours ago, HantsRob said:

 

I'd agree there's crossovers. I do believe it could survive without.

Profit on carts, agreed
I don't think mid-week practice is only game shooters, so I'd disagree with the overall statement. There could be less shooters yes, but some game shooters will move to clay and maybe shoot more. But, there would be an impact.
Even with only clay gun market, a seller would be foolish to stop all UK sales. Profit is profit, no? Maybe more of a ship to order model.
RFDs - I am sure some may close, but then remaining ones may get stronger.
Police - again possibly, or maybe it'll mean more diligence

Good arguments that no-one has answers to, but good topics to discuss.

This is what really doesn't help your cause. Is being that rude and insensitive really necessary? Is name calling how you win your argument? 

I stated shooting live quarry for fun, and not for conservation or for food chain. For your argument, I haven't seen any days advertised on guns on peg for shooting pigs.

I am also not against conservation and very aware of how important that is.

You’re lack of basic knowledge is you’re problem. I’m not here to cure you’re ignorance. 

You have caused an unwelcome distraction amongst live quarry shooters - who are trying to address an important attack from the Welsh Government. If you’re not prepared to put your shoulder to the wheel - leave it to us. 

[Poor Shot]

1 hour ago, HantsRob said:

Maybe one of the issues is also the cost to do it! I do get the cost of rearing and welfare etc. But it does make it inaccessible to many and to get a cheap back gunning spot is usually via friends referrals rather than something easily gained. So it feels a bit taboo, a guarded secret, and "bunny hugging" comments isolate the community more. I'm surprised there isn't more effort to welcome new guns rather than to insult those on the fence, or for it to feel highly inaccessible without large wads of cash.

It's only as inaccessible as you chose to make it.

I accept, that to someone new to the sport with no real friends or contacts in the shooting or farming world (I'm one of them) it can take time to get to know your local community. It took well over a year of talking to different people at clay grounds and getting to know people before I got my first shooting permission.

Last season I shot 10 days on a beat one/ stand one DIY syndicate for less than the cost of a peg at a 200 bird day.

This year I've booked a place on a 6 day standing syndicate for less than the cost of a peg at a fancy driven day at a nice estate. I've also joined a combined pest control/ DIY game shooting club for relative pennies per month.

I'm also a wildfowling club member which is also cheap as can be for some great shooting but some even greater experiences of nature that I wouldn't otherwise see.

If you want to experience the whole wine and dine experience then your going to pay for it but that's not what shooting is about for me. Range rovers, fine food and drink driving (with a little bit of shooting squeezed in) Is a bit too middle class for me.

I find the whole other side of shooting almost as enjoyable as the shooting itself.

Not including any clay target shooting, my whole shooting year last year cost less than £1500.

[Fellside]

4 minutes ago, jall25 said:

Poor clueless you 

I missed rude 

So did he, or did he not, quote these words: “ I am not convinced doing it for sport rather than conservation is necessarily a good thing.” or was he just asking an innocent question as you first attempted to assert? I rather think it’s you who is clueless. If pointing out the blindingly obvious is rude - then yes I’m rude. 

[ShootingEgg]

On 11/04/2023 at 13:15, HantsRob said:

If I am a clay shooter who has no intention of ever shooting a live animal, and I am not convinced doing it for sport rather than conservation is necessarily a good thing, I should support your fight to shoot game in case clays are targeted next?

So my opinion on this is that they are anti shooting.. so yes clays will be targeted. It is an easy in to target live quarry and released birds rather than say grey squirrel or fox or deer etc.

I shoot both live quarry and clay, I know some who only shoot live and some only shoot clays. But I would back both sides personally. 

If we were to stop a pheasant shoot on the farm I run it on, no cover crop would be planted, so no additional feeds for all the other species, there would be less to no predator control so the hare population, rabbit, small song birds, other ground nesting birds would all suffer. I think you have to say that game shooting is both sport and conservation. You see a clay as a testing shot, I see the same testing shot in the shape of a pheasant a partridge or a duck etc. I then have it in the freezer or on my plate.. you've also got to think about the local economy, hotels, pubs, restaurants, cafe, the local rfd, list is endless. It's a huge knock on effect. 

In short I think All shooters should back this and respond to support their fellow shooters.. as soon as they get one passed the rest will follow.. don't be fooled that this is not an attack on private gun ownership!!!

[Scully]

3 hours ago, HantsRob said:

I'll take "best shooting forum predominantly UK based, with guns for sale and amazing knowledge that covers a lot of information on guns, equipment, banter, and so much non-game related chat" 

Meet like minded folk (I have shot with 4 people from this forum, all amazing people!)

Get balance

Learn. Listen. Understand. Challenge. Grow.

Fair enough.

I shoot both clays and live quarry. However, it’s not just the attack on live quarry shooting, rather than an attack on gun ownership.
That is ultimately what it’s all about in my opinion; the public ownership of guns. Little steps. Chip chip chip. 
 

[Fellside]

28 minutes ago, Scully said:

Fair enough.

I shoot both clays and live quarry. However, it’s not just the attack on live quarry shooting, rather than an attack on gun ownership.
That is ultimately what it’s all about in my opinion; the public ownership of guns. Little steps. Chip chip chip. 
 

Exactly this. 

[albifrons]

Yes.

Also passed on to club members 50+, beaters group 30ish and family and friends.

[wymberley]

Been quiet until now as I'm still not sure what to say other than it appears than one post in particular has been instrumental in turning the thread around and into a sensible debate. The following is not an opinion as one can usually explain the reasoning behind having such, but is simply a gut feeling based on an attitude which is unavoidably ingrained as at least a third generation shooter which I can account for. For some reason, which I can neither explain nor seem to shake off, I have the idea that before too long - although I possibly won't be around by then - shooting in the UK will have reverted to that as it was prior and up to the '50s/60s era. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by wymberley

[Fellside]

45 minutes ago, albifrons said:

Yes.

Also passed on to club members 50+, beaters group 30ish and family and friends.

Well done albifrons! 

[jall25]

8 hours ago, Fellside said:

So did he, or did he not, quote these words: “ I am not convinced doing it for sport rather than conservation is necessarily a good thing.” or was he just asking an innocent question as you first attempted to assert? I rather think it’s you who is clueless. If pointing out the blindingly obvious is rude - then yes I’m rude. 

Live quarry shooters wont sort this alone and that is why we need to bring along as many people as we can 

Your attitude puts people off - simple 

[CharlieT]

I feel this proposed legislation should be viewed the same as any other proposed government legislation, in so much as legislation should reflect the majority views of the people for the good of the people Therefore, with this in mind, everyones view counts and rightly should be taken into account. It is therefore extremely important that everyone takes part and all who shoot band together.

[Fellside]

11 hours ago, jall25 said:

Live quarry shooters wont sort this alone and that is why we need to bring along as many people as we can 

Your attitude puts people off - simple 

The anti live quarry shooting member isn’t going to help us. He showed his hand. We need to get the job done minus distraction, fuss and nonsense.  Simple!  Re my attitude - you’re entitled to hour opinion, my point was that we’ve got bigger things to worry about. By the way, if you call people clueless, you’re bound to get some….. shall we say ‘feedback’. You shouldn’t be too surprised about that. More (much more!) importantly, If they licence pheasant shoots in Wales, the rest of the UK is likely to follow. Then we are only one step away from licence closure. As I say, we need to get the job done!

[jall25]

1 minute ago, Fellside said:

The anti live quarry shooting member isn’t going to help us. He showed his hand. We need to get the job done minus distraction, fuss and nonsense.  Simple!  Re my attitude - you’re entitled to hour opinion, my point was that we’ve got bigger things to worry about. By the way, if you call people clueless, you’re bound to get some….. shall we say ‘feedback’. You shouldn’t be too surprised about that. More (much more!) importantly, If they licence pheasant shoots in Wales, the rest of the UK is likely to follow. Then we are only one step away from licence closure. As I say, we need to get the job done!

We agree on at least 99 percent Fellside 👍

[Fellside]

22 minutes ago, jall25 said:

We agree on at least 99 percent Fellside 👍

No probs jall25. 

Link at beginning of thread - for anyone new to this. Please pass it around. 

[HantsRob]

4 hours ago, Fellside said:

The anti live quarry shooting member isn’t going to help us. He showed his hand.

That's the saddest part of it all.... I had already completed based on BASC suggestions. You assumed I was anti support.

Just because I do not get live quarry shooting, it doesn't mean I don't support the industry. I am here to learn, question, challenge, mostly for my self learnings. I still don't get live shooting and it's not an interest, but I do believe it's part of the wider shooting agenda and therefore has my support.

It is just a shame you felt so strongly to be rude and unwelcoming to an opinion that differs to your own. Sadly by and large that stops debate, discussion, and learning from those that don't understand. 

I believe in conservation.
I believe in wildlife control.
I am not convinced with breeding birds to just shoot them.

That is a very personal opinion, it doesn't mean I cannot support others. I didn't think I had to explain myself like this and I am saddened that it may fall on deaf ears.

Finally, as a rural lad, I have on many occasions seen bushes with dumped pigeons and other animals that were shot and just dumped. I think it is that attitude that has on many an occasion saddened me. I have also had to pull almost dead animals off the road, and have been grateful for a farmer that can humanely dispatch the animal. 

We are going in circles, I would appreciate you ceasing your rudeness. The community has my support. Your comments however really don't help anyone anti looking in at that negative behaviour. I wish you well all the same, I hope you'd put this one to bed also so indeed the thread can go back to "have you have your say". 

[London Best]

@HantsRob, I know times have moved on, but has it occurred to you that without live quarry shooting there would never have been any clays?

[Fellside]

5 hours ago, HantsRob said:

That's the saddest part of it all.... I had already completed based on BASC suggestions. You assumed I was anti support.

Just because I do not get live quarry shooting, it doesn't mean I don't support the industry. I am here to learn, question, challenge, mostly for my self learnings. I still don't get live shooting and it's not an interest, but I do believe it's part of the wider shooting agenda and therefore has my support.

It is just a shame you felt so strongly to be rude and unwelcoming to an opinion that differs to your own. Sadly by and large that stops debate, discussion, and learning from those that don't understand. 

I believe in conservation.
I believe in wildlife control.
I am not convinced with breeding birds to just shoot them.

That is a very personal opinion, it doesn't mean I cannot support others. I didn't think I had to explain myself like this and I am saddened that it may fall on deaf ears.

Finally, as a rural lad, I have on many occasions seen bushes with dumped pigeons and other animals that were shot and just dumped. I think it is that attitude that has on many an occasion saddened me. I have also had to pull almost dead animals off the road, and have been grateful for a farmer that can humanely dispatch the animal. 

We are going in circles, I would appreciate you ceasing your rudeness. The community has my support. Your comments however really don't help anyone anti looking in at that negative behaviour. I wish you well all the same, I hope you'd put this one to bed also so indeed the thread can go back to "have you have your say". 

I am bound to assume you were anti support - as you essentially said you were. I am also free to express my opinions and don’t appreciate your assumptions based on lack of knowledge. Don’t expect much sympathy on a live quarry shooting forum, if you basically disagree with what we do. The title of the thread should indicate the task importance. ‘Debate discussion and learning’, as you put it, is an unwelcome distraction from the urgent intended purpose here. I do however applaud you for filling in the form per guidelines - many thanks!

[HantsRob]

13 hours ago, London Best said:

@HantsRob, I know times have moved on, but has it occurred to you that without live quarry shooting there would never have been any clays?

Indeed that's not lost on me. Clay shooting has been around for 100+ years mind, so whilst it has a history and provenance, enough time has elapsed for it to be seen as it's own sport. I do understand the history. Again, I am not against quarry shooting, it's just not for me. I like the comment though

10 hours ago, Fellside said:

I do however applaud you for filling in the form per guidelines - many thanks!

#OneTeam even if we don't always agree on things...

[jall25]

1 hour ago, HantsRob said:

Indeed that's not lost on me. Clay shooting has been around for 100+ years mind, so whilst it has a history and provenance, enough time has elapsed for it to be seen as it's own sport. I do understand the history. Again, I am not against quarry shooting, it's just not for me. I like the comment though

#OneTeam even if we don't always agree on things...

 

Welcome Rob and feel free to ask any questions - happy to answer by PM - or even better than me is Conor @ BASC

 

@Conor O'Gorman

 

I get where Fellside is coming from a bit that this thread is really more of a call to arms to get the job done - you will finf the vast majority in our community - fellside i dare say included - welcoming and keen to help

regards

[12gauge82]

On 12/04/2023 at 11:44, Fellside said:

Let’s not get too distracted by the comments of a bunny hugger (who probably enjoys eating animals via bacon sarnies at his clay ground…?!). 

May I respectfully request that we soldier on with the main business - getting as big a response as possible. On the subject of clay shooting, for those PW members who run shooting grounds - how about appealing to your club email list with the form attached? As we know, an awful lot of keen clay shots shoot game (evidently not all, but a hell of a lot). It would be great to hear back from someone who has done this. 

 

With all due respect, I don't believe that attitude puts shooting or the wider shooting community in a good light. While I am fiercely pro shooting, I will always respect others right to take a different view providing they do so in a sane, polite and reasonable manner, as haunts Rob has done.

[Fellside]

36 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

With all due respect, I don't believe that attitude puts shooting or the wider shooting community in a good light. While I am fiercely pro shooting, I will always respect others right to take a different view providing they do so in a sane, polite and reasonable manner, as haunts Rob has done.

Good worthy rant. 7 out of 10.