Pellet drop

[Rat Boy]

One of my permissions is a grain mill which included two large storage sheds which are about 60 yards long. Feral Pigeons sit on the girders at the far end. Due to the huge piles of grain stored in the sheds I can only get to within 45 yards of the far wall. I have a sub 12 foot pound HW100 .177 that is more than capable of knocking the ferals down, but I'm to sure what the pellet drop is at 50 yards.  I went there yesterday and shot quite few pigeons but missed loads as I cannot see where the pellet is striking the wall to judge the hold over. Could anybody suggest a decent scope for this type of work ?

[old man]

Personally, not sure sub 12 is the right tool for that but your decision?

[JKD]

1 minute ago, old man said:

Personally, not sure sub 12 is the right tool for that but your decision?

Sub 12 is definitely the right tool for this. I'd question the "I cannot see where the pellet is striking the wall" !!!???

[old man]

Each to his own I suppose?

[Stonepark]

30 minutes ago, Rat Boy said:

One of my permissions is a grain mill which included two large storage sheds which are about 60 yards long. Feral Pigeons sit on the girders at the far end. Due to the huge piles of grain stored in the sheds I can only get to within 45 yards of the far wall. I have a sub 12 foot pound HW100 .177 that is more than capable of knocking the ferals down, but I'm to sure what the pellet drop is at 50 yards.  I went there yesterday and shot quite few pigeons but missed loads as I cannot see where the pellet is striking the wall to judge the hold over. Could anybody suggest a decent scope for this type of work ?

 

Any 12x mildot scope with a 40mm+ lens is likely suitable

Probably nothing wrong with the scope you have but you are zero'd at the wrong range.

For this job, re-zero your scope for 45 yards...... not the standard 25 yards.

Chairgun works out the answer for the ballistics.

How exactly do you manage to retrieve the corpses and how does this fit in with hygiene regs?

Edited April 10, 2023 by Stonepark

[Ultrastu]

Hello  I'm presuming your using. Jsb exact  8.4s  and zeroed at 35 yds with a scope hight of around 1.8 inches . 11.5 fpe .

Your drop along the horizontal  level .would be at  x yds 

40   - 0.5 inch 

45 -  1.2 inch 

50 - 2.2 inch 

55 - 3.3 in

60 - 4.75 in .

Obviously  different pellets will give different drops  .the exact is gonna give you probably the least drop due to its excellent bc and velocity .heavies will drop more and lighter pellets about the same as the exact at 50 plus yds  .

There isn't a lot of energy left in a sub 12  .177 at 50 plus yds for body shots on pigeons and head shots would be preferable  at this range. But accuracy  will be key .

Also consider that elevated shots into high roofs  will change the amount of hold over /drop you experience  . Ie you get less drop the steeper the incline .but a 50 yd shot in a typical barn is gonna be below 20 degree usually  so the above figures will be close enough to work .

[Ian willetts]

Build a hide to get you closer old drum or pallet’s so you can get comfortable to shoot 

[Rat Boy]

1 hour ago, old man said:

Personally, not sure sub 12 is the right tool for that but your decision?

What other options are there ? FAC air rifles would probably put holes in the roof sheets. Once the pigeons start to fly around the sheds they land on roof girders and steel work, these are easier to shoot but most migrate to the far end wall. As for hygiene I collect as many as I can. As for the Pigeons sat fouling all over the grain I would not consider a few dead ones left to rot would cause much problem.  

[Stonepark]

38 minutes ago, Rat Boy said:

As for hygiene I collect as many as I can. As for the Pigeons sat fouling all over the grain I would not consider a few dead ones left to rot would cause much problem.  

There is a difference between worm eggs (in bird poo as the main risk) and botulism bacterial and toxins caused by rotting carcasses. The former are killed by pasturisation temperatures (70c), whilst the latter need 121c and 80c respectively.

[JKD]

"As for hygiene I collect as many as I can."

Highly commendable but it should be all shot birds collected.

"As for the Pigeons sat fouling all over the grain I would not consider a few dead ones left to rot would cause much problem."

Totally irresponsible action, IMHO !!!

Any other advice I was going to offer is on hold.

Edited April 10, 2023 by JKD

[wymberley]

Whereas Ultrastu's figures are spot on, because of the Riflemans' Rule, Stonepark's suggested zero from the figures you've given is equally so with no lay-off required.

[Rat Boy]

I would like add the mill makes animal feeds and nothing else. 

[Ultrastu]

So back on topic  . Are my values any use ? Or have I presumed wrong  ? 

[Rat Boy]

1 minute ago, Ultrastu said:

So back on topic  . Are my values any use ? Or have I presumed wrong  ? 

Next time I go back to the mill I will take my golf range finder to get some accurate distance measurements. I have been using Accupells as they seem to be very accurate.  Thanks for the info  

[wymberley]

20 minutes ago, Rat Boy said:

Next time I go back to the mill I will take my golf range finder to get some accurate distance measurements. I have been using Accupells as they seem to be very accurate.  Thanks for the info  

And a protractor. 

[rapid rich]

6 hours ago, Rat Boy said:

One of my permissions is a grain mill which included two large storage sheds which are about 60 yards long. Feral Pigeons sit on the girders at the far end. Due to the huge piles of grain stored in the sheds I can only get to within 45 yards of the far wall. I have a sub 12 foot pound HW100 .177 that is more than capable of knocking the ferals down, but I'm to sure what the pellet drop is at 50 yards.  I went there yesterday and shot quite few pigeons but missed loads as I cannot see where the pellet is striking the wall to judge the hold over. Could anybody suggest a decent scope for this type of work ?

You’d be best get some paper targets set up at varying distances and work out your drop that way ….and see what sort of group sizes you can achieve, this will make the decision for you as to whether or not it’s ethical for you to be shooting at these pigeons or not 

RR

[Ultrastu]

1 hour ago, Rat Boy said:

Next time I go back to the mill I will take my golf range finder to get some accurate distance measurements. I have been using Accupells as they seem to be very accurate.  Thanks for the info  

The accupells will have a trajectory almost identical to the exacts  I gave above  . 

As mentioned  by others.if you set up paper targets at known  increments of  35 (zero ) 40 45  50 55 and 60  and aim at  a horizontal  line every time  you can  see the drop and how it corresponds to your reticle. 

If your using a 1/2  mildot reticle  .

Try setting it on 12 x mag    your dots and ties should work out well in 5 yd increments as above .

[Ultrastu]

Energy wise . Your accupel will give around 7.3 fpe at 35 yds 

6.5 fpe at 45  and 5.75 fpe at 55 yds 

These last 2 values aren't really enough for body shot kills especially  with a light pellet  . Your gonna really need to hit the neck or head to get a reliable kill .and a 55 yds shot on a small pigeon head is tricky especially  if there is some wind in the barn .

Possibly try a jsb heavy pellet .if accurate for you  they will deliver much more energy on target  with better penetration   these will give 9 fpe at 35 yds and a huge 7.8 at 55 yds  

Though you will get more drop at range it can be allowed for .

[Mice!]

45 yards is a long shot, hitting a pigeon in the head at that range will take some doing. 

What scope are you using, are you shooting rested?

Personally I'd be shooting paper at that range to see if my set up and myself were up to it, things certainly open up after 30 yards if you aren't set up right.

[Dougy]

Something else to chuck in,

Get as much time as you can shooting at ranges out to 50 yards on paper, put your targets out at 5 yard intervals from 20 yards to your max, and dont forget if your shooting higher you will need check your POI. 

[manthing]

There's  nowt as good for you and the gun as setting out a handful of targets from 25 to 55 yards at 5 yard intervals and checking what you holdover/unders are. A mildot scope helps as well. It's all about the practice. In my back garden I have the fence marked at 15 to 30 yards so I know where to set my practice targets.

Edited April 10, 2023 by manthing

[TOPGUN749]

Set out targets at the range you want and adjust the sights for it.Then keep shooting at targets until you can consistently hit a 2p coin size,if you can’t achieve this then find a way to shoot from closer at a distance you can hit 2p,that will give you extra hitting power too.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, human consumption or animal feed I am sure they have health and safety rules on disposal of vermin, ?? 

[manthing]

9 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, human consumption or animal feed I am sure they have health and safety rules on disposal of vermin, ?? 

You sure this is in the right bit opp? 🤔 

[oldypigeonpopper]

2 hours ago, manthing said:

You sure this is in the right bit opp? 🤔 

Hello, I am sure the mill would have inspections even for making  cattle feed