Teachers pay rise

[markm]

19 minutes ago, Rem260 said:

Em nope! I think you'll find it's coming from our universities/educational establishment's who then produce these woke businesses. Can't ever remember seeing trades persons or those generally on the lower rungs pushing these ideologies.

So are you saying schools or universities now?  

As mentioned for every school that has them policies there will be 1000 employers who’ve created it and encouraged by politicians - mostly the left seemingly.

To give another example - factory workers  Greggs now have pronouns on their badges….

My place of work - 
 

separate male and female toilets.
separate uniform policy. 
male - sir / female - miss. 
male / female changing rooms.
sanitary products / disposal bins only in the female toilets rooms.
male / female staff toilets. 
 

99% of schools in the UK will be like this. The odd one appears in the press and all tarred with the same brush….

I’m speaking facts after 25+ years in secondary education. You read part of a newspaper article. 

Anyway it’s off track… back to generally how worthless everyone in the profession is (spongers of the state). 
 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by markm

[12gauge82]

7 minutes ago, Mice! said:

You can't or shouldn't include the private sector, take a bricky,  everyone on a site is probably on a different rate, working the hours they want.

My job is effectively the same no matter where I work but the the pay and conditions will vary massively so its up to me to work where I want for the pay offered.

Looking at jobs paid by Gov yes police,  fire, ambulance and prison all deserve a pay rise, there all tough jobs that require a lot of training and involve a lot of stress/pressure.

Armed forces and careers I've no idea about, both jobs you can go into with little or no qualifications, people don't join the military for the amazing pay, its for the training, the life, the pay is clear when you join and you'd hope to get fair pay rises along the way. 

I believe it fair to compare teaching with any other role within the context of fair pay for a days work, why wouldn't it be?

My argument isn't that teachers don't deserve a pay increase, it's that I don't believe they deserve one more than anyone else, there are many other equally deserving jobs, that don't have the luxury of holding the country to ransom.

[owain]

2 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I believe it fair to compare teaching with any other role within the context of fair pay for a days work, why wouldn't it be?

My argument isn't that teachers don't deserve a pay increase, it's that I don't believe they deserve one more than anyone else, there are many other equally deserving jobs, that don't have the luxury of holding the country to ransom.

So your argument is that everybody deserves a pay rise? I’ll agree with that. 

[Rem260]

9 minutes ago, markm said:

So are you saying schools or universities now?  

As mentioned for every school that has them policies there will be 1000 employers who’ve created it and encouraged by politicians - mostly the left seemingly.

To give another example - factory workers  Greggs now have pronouns on their badges….

My place of work - 
 

separate male and female toilets.
separate uniform policy. 
male - sir / female - miss. 
male / female changing rooms.
sanitary products / disposal bins only in the female toilets rooms.
male / female staff toilets. 
 

99% of schools in the UK will be like this. The odd one appears in the press and all tarred with the same brush….

I’m speaking facts after 25+ years in secondary education. You read part of a newspaper article. 

Anyway it’s off track… back to generally how worthless everyone in the profession is (spongers of the state). 
 

 

Where do you think teachers get their teaching degrees from. Or do they just start teaching straight from the 6th form.

 

[12gauge82]

6 minutes ago, owain said:

So your argument is that everybody deserves a pay rise? I’ll agree with that. 

Totally, although that unfortunately isn't feasible in the current economic situation this country is in.

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, markm said:

Em, nope!  Yet again pointing the finger in the wrong directions. The general population isn’t saying “NO” to this rubbish outside of schools, so it’s coming into schools and it can’t be controlled. 
 

You’ll see the odd example in the news. But believe me, what is going on outside is a lot worse.  Eg - I bet there are 100x more business’ than schools that have staff badges with pronouns, gender less toilets, single uniform policy - to name a few……

Seems to have worked for Wickes 🤣

[shaun4860]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

 Didn't the Barristers go on strike as well?

 

That must have hurt Costas and Starbucks 😳

[Mice!]

38 minutes ago, shaun4860 said:

That must have hurt Costas and Starbucks 😳

🤣🤣

[steve1066]

9 hours ago, Centrepin said:

Utter garbage. 

I've finished with this thread as it's not worth my time or effort.

Teachers are not worthy of my time. Wasters every single one.

Yes you seem that type, talk garbage with no time to back it up.

[12gauge82]

7 hours ago, markm said:

So are you saying schools or universities now?  

As mentioned for every school that has them policies there will be 1000 employers who’ve created it and encouraged by politicians - mostly the left seemingly.

To give another example - factory workers  Greggs now have pronouns on their badges….

My place of work - 
 

separate male and female toilets.
separate uniform policy. 
male - sir / female - miss. 
male / female changing rooms.
sanitary products / disposal bins only in the female toilets rooms.
male / female staff toilets. 
 

99% of schools in the UK will be like this. The odd one appears in the press and all tarred with the same brush….

I’m speaking facts after 25+ years in secondary education. You read part of a newspaper article. 

Anyway it’s off track… back to generally how worthless everyone in the profession is (spongers of the state). 
 

 

Don't mean to pour fuel on the fire but wasn't their a case the other day of a teacher branding a child despicable for not recognising a fellow child as a cat.

Bit off topic but I think a bit of common sense needs to come back into our education system.

[markm]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Don't mean to pour fuel on the fire but wasn't their a case the other day of a teacher branding a child despicable for not recognising a fellow child as a cat.

Bit off topic but I think a bit of common sense needs to come back into our education system.

1 idiot out of 9,100,000 kids currently in the education system.   I’ll let you work out that percentage.

 

1 idiot out of 460,000 teachers. 
 

I repeat, you read one newspaper article - I’m on the shop floor (as the saying goes). 

Edited June 26, 2023 by markm

[12gauge82]

30 minutes ago, markm said:

1 idiot out of 9,100,000 kids currently in the education system.   I’ll let you work out that percentage.

 

1 idiot out of 460,000 teachers. 
 

I repeat, you read one newspaper article - I’m on the shop floor (as the saying goes). 

Fair enough but you'd of thought someone with such extreme views would have been challenged earlier. It only came to light because the far more rational child recorded it.

What about the incident where the child accidentally dropped a quran, was threatened with death threats while the school instead of challenging the people making threats and protecting a child, suspended them and released this statement.

"However, we have made it very clear that their actions did not treat the Quran with the respect it should have, so those involved have been suspended and we will be working with them to ensure they understand why their actions were unacceptable.

"This morning, we met with our local Muslim community leaders, local councillors and police to share all the information we currently know, the action taken and the immediate steps we have taken to reinforce the values and behaviour we expect from every member of this school community to ensure that all religions are respected."

 

That's pretty much systemic loonacy, in my opinion.

[discobob]

21 hours ago, owain said:

Did you get a pay rise from your employer this year?? 

Yes - 3% - first pay rise in 4 years. Last year they gave us a £250 bonus card - to be spent at limited places

Yesterday everyone received P11d's for those Cards. So everyone now has to do Self Assessment to record the payment - and once signed up you are signed up...

So on the Bonus you have to pay either £50 or £100 tax, depending on your bracket - while when you spend it the company gets 10-20% back of that value.

Some people may choose to get someone to do their tax return for them - I bet you can't get that done for less than £100....

Doesn't affect me - been doing SA for 20+ years....

Good bonus eh!!!

[Penelope]

10 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

That's pretty much systemic loonacy, in my opinion.

Yes, and far more prevalent than some on here will admit.

[Lloyd90]

13 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Don't mean to pour fuel on the fire but wasn't their a case the other day of a teacher branding a child despicable for not recognising a fellow child as a cat.

Bit off topic but I think a bit of common sense needs to come back into our education system.

Hasn’t that been documented as being a fake story? 
 

I just googled it and the same story crops up across different countries and different years. 
 

Seems odd … and that’s before you consider the cat element 🤣

51 minutes ago, discobob said:

Yes - 3% - first pay rise in 4 years. Last year they gave us a £250 bonus card - to be spent at limited places

Yesterday everyone received P11d's for those Cards. So everyone now has to do Self Assessment to record the payment - and once signed up you are signed up...

So on the Bonus you have to pay either £50 or £100 tax, depending on your bracket - while when you spend it the company gets 10-20% back of that value.

Some people may choose to get someone to do their tax return for them - I bet you can't get that done for less than £100....

Doesn't affect me - been doing SA for 20+ years....

Good bonus eh!!!

Why haven’t you left? 
 

After all that is the argument used for the public service, they knew what they signed up for apparently. 
 

So on the flip side if you’ve not had a pay rise for 3 consecutive years why are you still there? 
 

What area do you work in? In the private sector if your area of work had the massive shortage of staff that we have in teaching you could surely leave and demand a higher salary somewhere else 🤷‍♂️

 

My wife in the private sector has got 6%+ every year consistently, in her field this is average if not low. Anyone who doesn’t get a decent rise is usually off to another company as they are skilled professionals. 

[Rem260]

3 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Hasn’t that been documented as being a fake story? 
 

I just googled it and the same story crops up across different countries and different years. 
 

Seems odd … and that’s before you consider the cat element 🤣

No it hasn't.

On 25/06/2023 at 20:52, Lloyd90 said:

 

 

12 hours ago, markm said:

1 idiot out of 9,100,000 kids currently in the education system.   I’ll let you work out that percentage.

 

1 idiot out of 460,000 teachers. 
 

I repeat, you read one newspaper article - I’m on the shop floor (as the saying goes). 

The head of the teachers union a Corbyn supporter amongst other things. Does this not show the mindset of those in the union.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11951759/Teaching-union-leader-criticised-Nato-Ukraine-war-says-Britain-brutally-racist.html

[discobob]

22 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Why haven’t you left?

I am trying - believe me......

I have been able to up my on-call to cover pay rises - but I am trying to get out...

Edited June 27, 2023 by discobob

[Lloyd90]

28 minutes ago, discobob said:

I am trying - believe me......

I have been able to up my on-call to cover pay rises - but I am trying to get out...

Such is a benefit of private sector, you can vote with your feet and negotiate your next salary / pay with a different employer. 
 

The public sector has a set payment band (same as the NHS) and is the same across every employer, no scope to negotiate to a different band, the job pay band is set, so staff don’t even have the option to move to another job. 
 

Again people will say “they knew what they signed up for” … as if people were expected to have a crystal ball to see that there would be significant pay stagnation since 2008. 

[udderlyoffroad]

11 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Fair enough but you'd of thought someone with such extreme views would have been challenged earlier.

See me afterwards boy.

I try to repress my inner Grammar-Nazi, but on a thread about teachers/standards, it's an open goal....

17 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

The public sector has a set payment band (same as the NHS) and is the same across every employer, no scope to negotiate to a different band, the job pay band is set, so staff don’t even have the option to move to another job. 

Sorry Lloyd, nope. 

Contracting.  Agency work.  Private sector companies who do work for the public sector.  There are all sorts of options to move to another job 'in the public sector' to increase your salary, and remain within your chosen field.

19 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Again people will say “they knew what they signed up for” … as if people were expected to have a crystal ball to see that there would be significant pay stagnation since 2008. 

Same as the private sector, only without any of the perks.

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 hour ago, Rem260 said:

No it hasn't.

 

The head of the teachers union a Corbyn supporter amongst other things. Does this not show the mindset of those in the union.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11951759/Teaching-union-leader-criticised-Nato-Ukraine-war-says-Britain-brutally-racist.html

Hello, it always seems to me it is mostly black people who bleat on about racism 🤔

[Rem260]

53 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Such is a benefit of private sector, you can vote with your feet and negotiate your next salary / pay with a different employer. 
 

The public sector has a set payment band (same as the NHS) and is the same across every employer, no scope to negotiate to a different band, the job pay band is set, so staff don’t even have the option to move to another job. 
 

Again people will say “they knew what they signed up for” … as if people were expected to have a crystal ball to see that there would be significant pay stagnation since 2008. 

But they do have job security. I doubt there are many teachers going to bed worrying if they will have a job in the morning. Especially during the lockdown period.

Job security is worth at least 10% of pay in my humble opinion.

[Yellow Bear]

33 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

Again people will say “they knew what they signed up for” … as if people were expected to have a crystal ball to see that there would be significant pay stagnation since 2008. 

Same as the private sector, only without any of the perks.

Except that the private sector became stagnant in 1998  whilst the public sector had inflation plus until 2008, and not conjecture for those who will poo-poo this, as SWMBO worked in the NHS.

[TOPGUN749]

The public sector get 6 months full sick pay I believe and further at half pay at least for further months if necessary,while many in the private sector get nothing for the first 3 days and about £20 a day statutory sick pay for up to 6 months.A big difference! Plus the pension scheme in public sector is often far more generous.

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Hasn’t that been documented as being a fake story? 
 

You'd like to think it was as you wouldn't believe a sane person could think like that. Let alone a teacher attempting to brainwash a child with it but to the best of my knowledge it's genuine, I'll try and find a link.

 

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, TOPGUN749 said:

The public sector get 6 months full sick pay I believe and further at half pay at least for further months if necessary,while many in the private sector get nothing for the first 3 days and about £20 a day statutory sick pay for up to 6 months.A big difference! Plus the pension scheme in public sector is often far more generous.

Absolutely,  every public and private sector jobs have the same terms and conditions 😄😄😄

3 hours ago, Rem260 said:

Job security is worth at least 10% of pay in my humble opinion.

Probably more for a lot of people. 

I've contacted on short term contracts, 3 months at a time after being made redundant,  it never was 3 months,  I think the minimum was about 5, and your earning more short term with no benefits whilst watching the job market for other opportunities while you do as many hours as you can manage.