United Utilities banning Grouse Shooting on their vast swathes of land

[old man]

FWIW? I sent a missive knowing I had wasted my time but hey ho, there we go?

Better crack on where and while we can?

[Gordon R]

Quote

Perhaps a warning that they cant do what they like with their own land, or the grouse shooters will write them letters, that go straight in the bin ?

Rewulf - harsh, but accurate. 🙂

[WalkedUp]

4 hours ago, Scully said:

‘Need to set an example of them’? What does that mean?
A ‘warning’ of what exactly? 

A censure of the negative publicity, that some people for whom shooting is a way of life will not just meekly accept this attrition without at least voicing their opinion and standing up to be counted. Demonstrate that companies and bodies that persecute fieldsports for cheap politics will be called out and made to defend their actions. Yes we may be a minority but some of us are prepared to take the time and effort to support fieldsports (admittedly it is the few, most on this thread seem depressingly reluctant to show solidarity in any way).

[Conor O'Gorman]

A BASC update is here:

https://basc.org.uk/united-utilities-fighting-back/

[matone]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

A BASC update is here:

https://basc.org.uk/united-utilities-fighting-back/

Louise emailed.

Thankyou for providing the link.

Edited August 5, 2023 by matone

[Rewulf]

4 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

A BASC update is here:

https://basc.org.uk/united-utilities-fighting-back/

I have a question if that's OK? 

How many of UU s 7.3 million customers would support continuing the leases, so grouse shooting could continue, not that UU are going ask their opinion of course. 

This is the wall you're up against, it's their land, if they choose not to renew the leases, there's not a lot to be done, unless of course you're going to take them to court too? 

[Scully]

16 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

A censure of the negative publicity, that some people for whom shooting is a way of life will not just meekly accept this attrition without at least voicing their opinion and standing up to be counted. Demonstrate that companies and bodies that persecute fieldsports for cheap politics will be called out and made to defend their actions. Yes we may be a minority but some of us are prepared to take the time and effort to support fieldsports (admittedly it is the few, most on this thread seem depressingly reluctant to show solidarity in any way).

The negative publicity is only negative from the perspective of a minority, and outweighed by the positives to stakeholders. They don’t care; it’s not about shooting or the loss of income to a few, it’s about the money. 
There’s nothing wrong about standing up to be counted, I’m all for it, and I’ve done so and continue to do so, but you’ve got to learn to pick which fights are worth the effort.
BASC’s campaign is a good one actually, being relevant and logical ( but it won’t make any difference ) but talking of ‘making examples’ and issuing  ‘warnings’ is embarrassing. 
It’s all about the money. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

BASC’s campaign is a good one actually, being relevant and logical ( but it won’t make any difference ) but talking of ‘making examples’ and issuing  ‘warnings’ is embarrassing. 
It’s all about the money

This. 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Following a conversation with the chief executive of United Utilities, Louise Beardmore, we are encouraged that she has pledged to undertake independent reviews of the 23 shoots that would have been affected by the original decision. 

Click here for a BASC statement

 

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Following a conversation with the chief executive of United Utilities, Louise Beardmore, we are encouraged that she has pledged to undertake independent reviews of the 23 shoots that would have been affected by the original decision. 

Click here for a BASC statement

 

Genuinely , well done , and good luck with these developments 

[Gordon R]

Well done to BASC. I hope the independent review is just that.

[jall25]

People power !

[Gordon R]

Bit early to be celebrating.

[jall25]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Bit early to be celebrating.

 

Celebrating ?

A party must be a wild thing at yours Gordon 

 

Did you not say well done to BASC ?

 

 

[Gordon R]

I see you can read.

I applauded BASC in getting UU to review. I worry about how independent any review would be. Many reviews are designed to meet a pre-established conclusion.

Not sure where "people power" fits into the equation.

[Rewulf]

14 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Not sure where "people power" fits into the equation.

Now if he had said BASC power !
Like Gordon says , a review is not a victory, its fairly likely that UU will consider the financial loss against public perception.

If anyone thinks UU are going to think, 'Oh those poor grouse shoots' then I would give your head a wobble.

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Now if he had said BASC power !
Like Gordon says , a review is not a victory, its fairly likely that UU will consider the financial loss against public perception.

If anyone thinks UU are going to think, 'Oh those poor grouse shoots' then I would give your head a wobble.

Evening Rewulf,

I would suggest it’s not just about ‘those poor grouse shoots’. BASC have hit them where it always hurts these days - their PR unit. If their image is at risk of being tarnished, because rural workers are loosing jobs in an a very economically sensitive patch of the country….?! It’s a good angle (and a real one). No company wants to be committing resources to a PR stinker. It’s no surprise at all that UU have responded. Let’s keep our fingers crossed now for all the beaters, flankers, pickers up, dog breeders, beat keepers, head keepers and equipment suppliers. Imagine being a beat keeper with a family and a tied cottage on UU land right now…..? At least there’s now a chance that UU may do the right thing. Fingers crossed!

[Rewulf]

22 minutes ago, Fellside said:

I would suggest it’s not just about ‘those poor grouse shoots’. BASC have hit them where it always hurts these days - their PR unit. If their image is at risk of being tarnished, because rural workers are loosing jobs in an a very economically sensitive patch of the country….?! It’s a good angle (and a real one). No company wants to be committing resources to a PR stinker.

I agree with what youre saying in principle, thats because we are shooting/countryside people .
BASC will agree, and the people involved will agree, but we dont have the numbers.

At least 40,000 people take part in grouse shooting annually and the average shooting day brings 40 people together. Grouse shooting in England, Scotland and Wales supports the equivalent of over 2,500 full-time jobs and is worth in excess of £100m to the economy annually.

On the other hand , there is public perception, and this is the real PR audience.
Can you imagine what that is ?

At the moment , UU are reviewing the lesser of two evils.

22 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Let’s keep our fingers crossed now for all the beaters, flankers, pickers up, dog breeders, beat keepers, head keepers and equipment suppliers. Imagine being a beat keeper with a family and a tied cottage on UU land right now…..? At least there’s now a chance that UU may do the right thing. Fingers crossed!

Agreed 

[jall25]

2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I see you can read.

I applauded BASC in getting UU to review. I worry about how independent any review would be. Many reviews are designed to meet a pre-established conclusion.

Not sure where "people power" fits into the equation.

I can certainly read Gordon 

Thousands of emails have been sent to UU - if that's not "people power" i have no idea what is 

You keep drinking from your half empty glass 

35 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Evening Rewulf,

I would suggest it’s not just about ‘those poor grouse shoots’. BASC have hit them where it always hurts these days - their PR unit. If their image is at risk of being tarnished, because rural workers are loosing jobs in an a very economically sensitive patch of the country….?! It’s a good angle (and a real one). No company wants to be committing resources to a PR stinker. It’s no surprise at all that UU have responded. Let’s keep our fingers crossed now for all the beaters, flankers, pickers up, dog breeders, beat keepers, head keepers and equipment suppliers. Imagine being a beat keeper with a family and a tied cottage on UU land right now…..? At least there’s now a chance that UU may do the right thing. Fingers crossed!

 

Yes - PR damage - i think it was also pushed home in relation to biodiversity damage and not following the science 

 

[Weihrauch17]

On 05/08/2023 at 23:23, Rewulf said:

I have a question if that's OK? 

How many of UU s 7.3 million customers would support continuing the leases, so grouse shooting could continue, not that UU are going ask their opinion of course. 

This is the wall you're up against, it's their land, if they choose not to renew the leases, there's not a lot to be done, unless of course you're going to take them to court too? 

Was the land gifted to them by the Taxpayer / Govt when they took over?  If so why was the Govt allowed to give away Billions of pounds worth of Publicly owned assets?

[Fellside]

37 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I agree with what youre saying in principle, thats because we are shooting/countryside people .
BASC will agree, and the people involved will agree, but we dont have the numbers.

At least 40,000 people take part in grouse shooting annually and the average shooting day brings 40 people together. Grouse shooting in England, Scotland and Wales supports the equivalent of over 2,500 full-time jobs and is worth in excess of £100m to the economy annually.

On the other hand , there is public perception, and this is the real PR audience.
Can you imagine what that is ?

At the moment , UU are reviewing the lesser of two evils.

Agreed 

Yes agreed Rewulf, public perception re grouse shooting is often negative - but also frequently ignorant as to the conservation value. Derelict grouse moors become havens for nothing more than starving foxes and crows. Nesting lapwings and curlews become mere scavenger fodder. A good evidence based policy by UU should (?) acknowledge the provision of public goods which a well run moor provides. It’s also worth noting that the majority of hen harrier successes last year were on grouse moors. Just food for thought. As I say fingers crossed - that they make an appropriate decision for jobs and conservation. We can only watch and wait. 

[Gordon R]

Quote

Thousands of emails have been sent to UU - if that's not "people power" i have no idea what is 

As you appear to be well informed, can you supply a proper number and your source.

Perhaps you could cut out the patronising "half full / empty" etc. It makes you appear limited.

[jall25]

4 hours ago, Gordon R said:

As you appear to be well informed, can you supply a proper number and your source.

Perhaps you could cut out the patronising "half full / empty" etc. It makes you appear limited.

Have a day off Gordon

It makes you appear arrogant 

Only you can change your attitude - the one you have highlights how limited you are 

The end 

[HantsRob]

13 hours ago, Rewulf said:

At least 40,000 people take part in grouse shooting annually 

I wonder out of that 40,000, how many of them are unique people. Also, how many of that 40,000 applies to the UU grounds, as the wording implies that's part of the entire UK.

I'm not bashing this thread and it's an open question, but I wonder how many people are actually affected by the UU issue, and how many of that number are unique. That's to say, do you count the gamekeeper more than once (once per shoot?) Is that unique beaters, or tallying up per shoot etc?

I would love for this to be a good news story and for shooting to be restored. I do believe it's odd how they were gifted the land, and under what circumstance as that could drive the decision making. Either way, good luck to all of those directly affected, and also those indirectly (the shooting community as a whole, family etc)

[Gordon R]

jail25 - any chance of those figures you boast about?