Yellow Bear Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 25 minutes ago, old man said: The more the merrier IMHO here. In that case we need to include the union "bosses" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicblue Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 (edited) Having worked in the private sector for my entire working life (now retired), I reflect one was always wary of dealing with the public entities, be they local authorities, government bodies, HMRC or Defence. In the private sector we made business decisions, difficult though they often were. In the Public domain (i.e. the Post office) it seemed to be accepted that whilst the rewards (basic pay) were lower than employees could have collected had they switched into the private sector the trade off was rock-solid final salary pensions with often low retirement age thresholds - maybe 10 years earlier than the rest of us. This bred a culture (in the Public sector) of being exceedingly risk averse, where avoiding be accountable or not making any kind of personally attributable decision that might threaten one's ability to collect that pension was the norm. Mediocrity was an art form. This is why the Public sector are so keen on using Systems Integrators like Fujitsu - the official can say "we don't know so we have bought in experts to guide us", it absolves the decision maker who can hide behind the excuse of appointing and expert to guide on the use of public money at exorbitant cost, per man, per day - talking 4 figure numbers here. We are seeing this with the Post Office scandal - no one is standing up and owning the problems, either for appointing Fujitsu in the 1st place or actively managing the contract - when it went bad the Post Office knew, but no one wanted to own the hot potato of accountability - and still don't. Every day in post is one day nearer to that pension and retirement. Edited April 2 by Cosmicblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 6 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said: Mediocrity was is an art form sorry felt it needed small mod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said: Having worked in the private sector for my entire working life (now retired), I reflect one was always wary of dealing with the public entities, be they local authorities, government bodies, HMRC or Defence. In the private sector we made business decisions, difficult though they often were. In the Public domain (i.e. the Post office) it seemed to be accepted that whilst the rewards (basic pay) were lower than employees could have collected had they switched into the private sector the trade off was rock-solid final salary pensions with often low retirement age thresholds - maybe 10 years earlier than the rest of us. This bred a culture (in the Public sector) of being exceedingly risk averse, where avoiding be accountable or not making any kind of personally attributable decision that might threaten one's ability to collect that pension was the norm. Mediocrity was an art form. This is why the Public sector are so keen on using Systems Integrators like Fujitsu - the official can say "we don't know so we have bought in experts to guide us", it absolves the decision maker who can hide behind the excuse of appointing and expert to guide on the use of public money and exorbitant cost, per man, per day - talking 4 figure numbers here. We are seeing this with the Post Office scandal - no one is standing up and owning the problems, either for appointing Fujitsu in the 1st place or actively managing the contract - when it went bad the Post Office knew, but no one wanted to own the hot potato of accountability - and still don't. Every day in post is one day nearer to that pension and retirement. I would agree with your post except for the reason (and I am also now retired having spent a working life dealing mainly with Govt's (Uk and some overseas) - namely 3 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said: that might threaten one's ability to collect that pension was the norm. The reason I say that is that as far as I know almost no one in the civil service ever lost their pension, or was dismissed/demoted for poor performance/decisions. The worst that would happen was for the career progression to 'stall'. Faster promotion and career progression was dependant on success, but no penalties for poor performance that I was aware of and particularly no loss of any 'accrued' pension rights (this later also often applying in the private sector as well where pensions were often independently run and not within the employer's control). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 It is the Post Office Investigation Service and the senior management who are to blame. They knew at least 15 years ago that Horizon was seriously faulty, but it suited them all to keep quiet. What does stick in my throat is that the very investigators who led the prosecution of innocent postmasters were perverting the course of justice. They did not give honest disclosure to the defendants. I trust they will have their day in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 On 02/04/2024 at 16:20, Yellow Bear said: In that case we need to include the union "bosses" No problem there either. Take them in by bus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agriv8 Posted April 9 Report Share Posted April 9 (edited) They had Mr bates on the stand today been listening in the background! He raised formally concerns in the first week of Horizon go live Worth a read Edited April 9 by Agriv8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted April 9 Report Share Posted April 9 Hello, i did like his quote today, Thugs in Suites !!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agriv8 Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 As being an it guy for a decade or 3 I am intrigued on mr bates comment that the reporting system was so crud that it was no help finding errors and that certain giro transactions were appearing twice or a week later. All this in an age when you had to draw your pension or tax your car at the PO counter! Yet the gaffers still turned a blind eye ! don’t think we have got to the bottom of the can of worms yet ! Agriv8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicblue Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 58 minutes ago, Agriv8 said: As being an it guy for a decade or 3 I am intrigued on mr bates comment that the reporting system was so crud that it was no help finding errors and that certain giro transactions were appearing twice or a week later. All this in an age when you had to draw your pension or tax your car at the PO counter! Yet the gaffers still turned a blind eye ! don’t think we have got to the bottom of the can of worms yet ! Agriv8 Fujitsu were the Systems Integrator - it wouldn't be unreasonable to suspect that a reporting function wasn't part of the functional specification so it was never written? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted May 22 Report Share Posted May 22 (edited) Time to resurrect this thread, as Paula Vennells is giving evidence at the PO inquiry. Somebody pass her a box of tissues for those "tears" !!! 🥴🤔 Three days of questioning ahead. Edited May 22 by JKD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1966 Posted May 22 Report Share Posted May 22 was listening to her at lunch, she has a very selective memory, thought Jason Beers questioning was very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agriv8 Posted May 23 Report Share Posted May 23 22 hours ago, JKD said: Time to resurrect this thread, as Paula Vennells is giving evidence at the PO inquiry. Somebody pass her a box of tissues for those "tears" !!! 🥴🤔 Three days of questioning ahead. Yep I reckon the crocodile might want them back - Only 3 days - not enough! Agriv8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted May 23 Report Share Posted May 23 2 hours ago, Agriv8 said: Yep I reckon the crocodile might want them back - Only 3 days - not enough! Agriv8 I don't think the crocodile would want them back ! I've not followed this closely, seeing only snippets,,,, waiting for PV to finish her stint, then will watch/read all info. I agree 3 days is not enough,,,, especially with all the 'tear' delays 😪🤧🙄🙄🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armsid Posted May 23 Author Report Share Posted May 23 Seems like i did not know is her best answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 23 Report Share Posted May 23 She has had it easy so far. The barristers who question her tomorrow will have the gloves off. I have been waiting patiently for someone to ask these people who knew nothing - because nobody told them - just who exactly didn't tell them? If there is a criminal investigation afterwards - given that full disclosure wasn't followed - I expect the Police will be asking exactly that. Perverting the course of justice will be the order of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agriv8 Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 Amazing how she can remember things that lays blame at others feet . Yet any thing that I pointed in her direction seems to have been forgotten. i think the real reason for the tears is she’s a clever lady and she knows that this is only the beginning. Agriv8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 (edited) 13 hours ago, Gordon R said: She has had it easy so far. The barristers who question her tomorrow will have the gloves off. I have been waiting patiently for someone to ask these people who knew nothing - because nobody told them - just who exactly didn't tell them? If there is a criminal investigation afterwards - given that full disclosure wasn't followed - I expect the Police will be asking exactly that. Perverting the course of justice will be the order of the day. Hope you are right Gordon but, seemingly those above a certain level escape every time? Maybe she will receive help from way above? Edited May 24 by old man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 If the top jockeys at the Post Office knew and actually discussed how to supress the evidence (which should have been coughed up at disclosure), then they are looking at conspiracy too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 Watched the last half hour of Vennel's evidence - got ripped to shreds. Barrister is way more aggressive than previous lad - Beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: If the top jockeys at the Post Office knew and actually discussed how to supress the evidence (which should have been coughed up at disclosure), then they are looking at conspiracy too. Typical civil servants, everybody to blame but them and look after their own. Soon it will be Ed Davies fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 Well, like what has been said, selective memory, unaware of certain things, denial is her defence. And why does she giggle when she reaches for a tissue to wipe away those forced tears ?! She's not coming across as a 'professional' IMHO 🙄 I'm lost for words really 🫤 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 If it comes to a criminal trial, she will struggle. A totally unconvincing witness with a very selective memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: If it comes to a criminal trial, she will struggle. A totally unconvincing witness with a very selective memory. Nobody will do time or face charges for this 🤦🏻♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxphil Posted May 25 Report Share Posted May 25 I suspect she'll pull the "stress / ill" card soon, she didn't look a very healthy person Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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