Women in Shooting

[Fil]

On 30/01/2024 at 22:43, clangerman said:

I can get nagged at home no need to take it with me lol

LOL I was shooting today and a gun had his wife loading for him. He said she comes with me so I don't get moaned at when I get home. 

On 30/01/2024 at 21:09, Conor O'Gorman said:

Shooting is open to everyone, and there are barriers, whether real or perceived, to get into shooting, whatever the discipline, and there are lots of initiatives to encourage more women into many sports not just shooting. The more diverse we can be the more inclusive we can become. And that includes welcoming LGBTQQIP2SA shooters.

 

For fear of getting banned (and so be it) There are only two sexes. Male and Female. The rest are mental illnesses and I wouldn't want them having access to firearms. There. Said it. 

[Fil]

15 hours ago, London Best said:

I’m afraid that LGBTQQIP2SA lost me at the second Q.

Can anyone please translate into Anglo-Saxon.

M.e.n.t.a.l i.l.l.n.e.s.s

Edited February 1 by Fil
forgot a dot!

[Newbie to this]

8 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

sounds like division

Nail hit squarely on the head.

[London Best]

9 hours ago, Old farrier said:

 

as a note here 97% of my clients are female 

But you are a gynaecologist.

[Old farrier]

45 minutes ago, London Best said:

But you are a gynaecologist.

Not actually 😂

 

a emoji smiling 🙂 or laughing would have been appropriate on your post 🤔

[Penelope]

12 hours ago, HantsRob said:

As we opened the LGBetc lettering..... Connor; how many of that 93% that are male and 7% are female were that gender at birth?

All of them. Can't change chromosomes.

[Penelope]

11 hours ago, Old farrier said:

So 90+% of shooters are male most will have partners and have the opportunity to have a go or at least the opportunity 

why don’t they take up shooting? 
because they probably prefer other things 

as a note here 97% of my clients are female so shooting isn’t a anomaly certain sports hobbies and jobs will always have more of one gender than another 

do I encourage more male’s?  No

do I encourage more people in general ? Yes 

Exactly, why aren't there more men riding horse. Where I live, there are lots of horse and it's 100 women who are seen out riding.

No issue with women shooting and actively encourage my ex to take part, buying her a gun and two spaniels.

It's the 'we must a quota of this and that' that gets me. Why must we? Just encourage ALL those that take an interest, irrespective. 

[London Best]

1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

Not actually 😂

 

a emoji smiling 🙂 or laughing would have been appropriate on your post 🤔

Just a keen amateur, maybe?

Not sure how to do emojis.

[Konor]

I ran a clay pigeon club at college and moved it from a male clique of members who discouraged participation by others for their advantage  to a far larger club with around 15% female membership. At work I organised clay shooting day outings for colleagues with around 40% being female  from around 30 to 40 participants. Moving to a new job there was a yearly charity clay shoot with a number of female participants.

Of all the women I knew who took part in these events or were members of the college clay pigeon club not one took up the sport although they all enjoyed taking part at the time.

I think the reason is simply lack of interest unless there is a social element involved. Perhaps BASC should survey their women members and ask whether if they had introduced female members to shooting what was their reason for not continuing with it. I expect the male dominated atmosphere, the perception of cliques and unsuitability of shotgun used on their first shoot will be part of the problem. If these factors and others contribute to women performing poorly at clay shooting they're not likely to return. I expect that those women that excel at their first attempt will be more likely to continue and if the company is inclusive then you have a potential convert. 

Much as shooting, like golf, can become an obsession for men I don't think women are prone to hobby obsessions and I don't think the attraction to guns and shooting is a common trait in women hence the lack of enthusiasm to participate. 

[islandgun]

I wonder to what degree my own obsession [and other older males] is to do with, when as children we played cowboys/ indians and war , complete with assorted cap guns and our own gun sounds. Incidentally I dont remember any girls showing an interest in said games. So there you have it. I never really grew up and girls have better things to do..😁

[Gordon R]

I have no idea if this is widespread, but on at least three occasions, over many years, I have witnessed men introducing their wife / girlfriend to shooting. The man showed the woman how to mount the gun, but deliberately made them stand slightly shoulder back - warning them of recoil. They did not tell them to lean into the gun. The three women suffered a sore shoulder, with two of the men saying they would get used to it. 

I spoke to one about it, who said his wife had been nagging him to have ago, but after a sore shoulder, she wouldn't be keen to come back. I told him what I thought of that, but he wasn't interested.

[Old farrier]

3 hours ago, Penelope said:

Exactly, why aren't there more men riding horse. Where I live, there are lots of horse and it's 100 women who are seen out riding.

No issue with women shooting and actively encourage my ex to take part, buying her a gun and two spaniels.

It's the 'we must a quota of this and that' that gets me. Why must we? Just encourage ALL those that take an interest, irrespective. 

And yet at the top end of the sport 

jockeys

event riders

show jumping 

there seems a higher male % 

🤔

[Konor]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

So there you have it. I never really grew up and girls have better things to do..😁

In a nutshell if you expand I to we

[London Best]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

I never really grew up and girls have better things to do..😁

That can’t be right, as there are no better things to do.

[ehb102]

Can't get through to BASC on the members line so have written. To have my paid representative actually working against me as a certificate holder and a sportsperson is just too much. 

If the "voice of the countryside" can't grasp that a steer is not a heifer then we are doomed.

[HantsRob]

16 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I don't know. It was another PW member who stated "Not enough LGBT shooting next?" that opened that aspect up. Which is important also as regards the inclusive nature of shooting. Overall, so far, I see an over reaction by a few people on this forum to a topic that was shared a week ago by BASC on Facebook and Twitter with no drama whatsoever - all positive. So perhaps we should ask why on this forum why a small number of people are triggered by an article that is about encouraging more women into shooting and why so many more people are viewing this thread but making no comments?

Conor, it would be naive with how the (typically) younger generations are seeing sexuality, assigned genders etc to now only think in binary male or female. My point was partly flippant and wasn't a critique on yourself or BASC, however I do believe targeting money into getting more women into the sport is short sighted and ineffective. I appreciate there are motives to get a better percentage, but I will remain in the "more of any shooters" that of course are safe and sound.

Many won't want to comment for fear of being laughed at. For example there seems to be a drive to say LGBTetc is a mental illness. I believe this stems from the gender question, however I would believe they are ok with the "LGB" side of the acronym. 30-40 years ago they may have said being gay is a sin, wrong, immoral, mentally unwell etc. With several comments that are not necessarily supporting the letters nearer the end, people may not wish to put their head above the parapet.

For the record, I don't care who the next shooter identifies as, as long as they shoot safely and are deemed safe by medical professionals.

16 hours ago, Old farrier said:

do I encourage more male’s?  No

do I encourage more people in general ? Yes 

That is why you are an amazing mentor and an advocate I have always admired.

6 hours ago, London Best said:

But you are a gynaecologist.

that tickled me.

5 hours ago, Penelope said:

All of them. Can't change chromosomes.

Of course, scientifically correct. 

My point is that many who were biologically male and on the list as male may identify as female, having gone through gender reassignment surgery. But as a topical question, I do not believe I have seen anyone that goes by a different gender to birth at a clay ground, their interests and focus do not seem to be on smashing clays.

 

2 hours ago, Konor said:

I think the reason is simply lack of interest unless there is a social element involved.

A good clubhouse at Barbury for food and drinks certainly helps the Belles. I think many grounds don't give that environment that's conducive to the social element.

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

I spoke to one about it, who said his wife had been nagging him to have ago, but after a sore shoulder, she wouldn't be keen to come back. I told him what I thought of that, but he wasn't interested.

I have seen the same with men taken shooting also in fairness. But I think this is a massive contributor. Maybe have-a-go needs to be more affordable.

[Conor O'Gorman]

7 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

Conor, it would be naive with how the (typically) younger generations are seeing sexuality, assigned genders etc to now only think in binary male or female. My point was partly flippant and wasn't a critique on yourself or BASC, however I do believe targeting money into getting more women into the sport is short sighted and ineffective. I appreciate there are motives to get a better percentage, but I will remain in the "more of any shooters" that of course are safe and sound.

Many won't want to comment for fear of being laughed at. For example there seems to be a drive to say LGBTetc is a mental illness. I believe this stems from the gender question, however I would believe they are ok with the "LGB" side of the acronym. 30-40 years ago they may have said being gay is a sin, wrong, immoral, mentally unwell etc. With several comments that are not necessarily supporting the letters nearer the end, people may not wish to put their head above the parapet.

For the record, I don't care who the next shooter identifies as, as long as they shoot safely and are deemed safe by medical professionals.

Thanks, I get where you are coming from. It is tricky with the language, and things being taken out of context, but I guess its about feeling included in the sport that you partake in - or wish to try. For policy work we have tended to state "Shooting is open to all backgrounds, ages and abilities". Is that still ok in the context of all this discussion? Perhaps it is. Interested in views on that.

 

[Gordon R]

Quote

For policy work we have tended to state "Shooting is open to all backgrounds, ages and abilities".

That is where it should start and end. They are shooters - nothing else is relevant.

[Penelope]

4 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

That is where it should start and end. They are shooters - nothing else is relevant.

👍

[ehb102]

45 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

That is where it should start and end. They are shooters - nothing else is relevant.

That would be nice, if we were all starting from the same place. Two individuals may be on an equal footing regardless of sex. However when looking at any class of people  we need to be aware of the disadvantages.

When women have been told for their entire lives - explicitly and also indirectly- that guns are for men, guns are not for you, the "women's shooting" movement was incredibly successful at increasing take up. And what happened to those women who took up shooting because of it? They moved into competition and game shooting and didn't need things to be wrapped in pink and labelled "women" to know they could do things. Barriers were truly broken down for them - for us, I was one of them. I see women I knew at the start of their shooting experiences now winning county titles and occasionally shooting for their Country. 

At the bottom of it all are two things, representation and mentorship. You can't be it if you can't see it, and that applied to everyone. And mentorship can come from anywhere - I have had some wonderful mentorship from male shooters as well as some top class women shooters. 

 

I see not reason to bring the alphabet soup of gender into shooting . It's cheap virtual signalling and completely unnecessary. You'd be better of tackling the homophobic "banter" that keeps people away rather than encouraging men to perform their fetishes at shooting grounds - autogynophiles are at statistical higher risk of violence anyway so not ideal licence holders. 

 

[HantsRob]

2 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

For policy work we have tended to state "Shooting is open to all backgrounds, ages and abilities". Is that still ok in the context of all this discussion? Perhaps it is. Interested in views on that.

I think that's all it should be. Then you are being inclusive to all, minus those legally or medically unfit to own and handle a gun.

A few comments on this thread are uncomfortable and could potentially keep some people away from shooting if they heard or read it. I believe this sport/hobby/lifestyle should be open to all.

[HantsRob]

1 hour ago, ehb102 said:

I see not reason to bring the alphabet soup of gender into shooting . It's cheap virtual signalling and completely unnecessary. You'd be better of tackling the homophobic "banter" that keeps people away rather than encouraging men to perform their fetishes at shooting grounds - autogynophiles are at statistical higher risk of violence anyway so not ideal licence holders. 

 

I agree it doesn't need bringing into this, and unnecessary.

As for autogynophiles, that is an outdated model/term. That was a long time before DSM5. I believe gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder. I believe they are at a higher rate of suicide compared to a CIS person, and indeed you are of course correct at a statistical higher risk of violence towards themself. That said, it would be the suicidal statistic that could preclude them of being a licence holder, rather than being at risk of violence upon themself. 

[bruno22rf]

On 30/01/2024 at 21:09, Conor O'Gorman said:

Shooting is open to everyone, and there are barriers, whether real or perceived, to get into shooting, whatever the discipline, and there are lots of initiatives to encourage more women into many sports not just shooting. The more diverse we can be the more inclusive we can become. And that includes welcoming LGBTQQIP2SA shooters.

 

First five words is all you need, the rest is just waffle.

[GingerCat]

6 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I have no idea if this is widespread, but on at least three occasions, over many years, I have witnessed men introducing their wife / girlfriend to shooting. The man showed the woman how to mount the gun, but deliberately made them stand slightly shoulder back - warning them of recoil. They did not tell them to lean into the gun. The three women suffered a sore shoulder, with two of the men saying they would get used to it. 

I spoke to one about it, who said his wife had been nagging him to have ago, but after a sore shoulder, she wouldn't be keen to come back. I told him what I thought of that, but he wasn't interested.

I took my wife shooting, she's considerably better at it than me so I had to divert her with some kids. In fact i still use "her" lanber with an extension pad  for 99.9% of my shooting.  Can't have her bragging about nailing 60 yards Crossers that I missed (she did really nail them as well). Whenever I take a lady to a clay shoot or rare occasion to the pigeon hide, i always make a point of having them lean into the gun and often put my hand on their shoulder to reinforce the point. 2 shots and I take the hand away as normally they've got the idea. The few that worry about the recoil get a gentle nudge to show them there really isn't any. My experience is they don't all think they are rambo and actually listen when told what to do, they then pick it up at an alarming rate. 

 

[London Best]

I used to do a lot of loading on a really big shoot. 
One of the best shots I ever loaded for was a lady, quite well-known in the game shooting world, who was definitely in the top 5 people I stood with. 
She showed the men how it should be done that day, using a short-barrelled SxS too.