This story as made my blood boil

[oowee]

Asylum was rejected (twice) and he should be ejected. The law is there just have to enact it. All this Rwanda carp is a distraction. 

[oowee]

Looks like some spiritualist vouched for him. How can we still hold the word of these nut jobs with any credibility. 

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, oowee said:

How can we still hold the word of these nut jobs with any credibility. 

The judge hearing his appeal clearly believed it.  Judges are appointed to be good at judging people's character and truthfulness.  Some of these 'asylum seekers' are very skilled conmen/criminals.

[Zoli 12 guage]

19 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The judge hearing his appeal clearly believed it.  Judges are appointed to be good at judging people's character and truthfulness.  Some of these 'asylum seekers' are very skilled conmen/criminals.

THAT WE'VE IMPORTED EN MASSE INTO OUR COUNTRY WITH (APPARENTLY) NO CHECKS ON WHO THEY ARE OR WHERE THEY'VE COME FROM 

inputted the missed out bits for you👍

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

inputted the missed out bits for you

1. It was 'our' judge/judiciary/appeals court that granted the asylum to allow him to stay.  He had been rejected on two previous occasions.
2. It is often difficult to do checks on who they are or where they come from because they don't have passports/identity in many cases.  Often(?) that is because they have deliberately destroyed any 'evidence' that may not be helpful to their asylum application on the advice of smugglers and 'legal' advisors.

[oowee]

56 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The judge hearing his appeal clearly believed it.  Judges are appointed to be good at judging people's character and truthfulness.  Some of these 'asylum seekers' are very skilled conmen/criminals.

Yep too true. The third appeal was supported by a spiritualist. For me that would have immediately flagged him as unwanted. 

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, oowee said:

The third appeal was supported by a spiritualist. For me that would have immediately flagged him as unwanted. 

Sadly - you can't put up flags based on religion like that.  In other countries, the fact that someone is a Christian flags them up as undesirable, some here think that being a muslim, or a jew makes then undesirable. 

Someone's religion or belief may even be the actual reason they are a valid asylum seeker as their religion may be outlawed in their country of origin leading to a need for asylum elsewhere.

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Sadly - you can't put up flags based on religion like that.  In other countries, the fact that someone is a Christian flags them up as undesirable, some here think that being a muslim, or a jew makes then undesirable. 

Someone's religion or belief may even be the actual reason they are a valid asylum seeker as their religion may be outlawed in their country of origin leading to a need for asylum elsewhere.

I get that but having any religion would not be a plus for asylum but a negative. Unless they can demonstrate persecution and even then for me it's all just nonsense. 

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

it's all just nonsense

It may be - but under the way asylum judgements are made, discrimination by religion is a valid reason for a person to be granted asylum.

 

[Zoli 12 guage]

10 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Sadly - you can't put up flags based on religion like that.  In other countries, the fact that someone is a Christian flags them up as undesirable, some here think that being a muslim, or a jew makes then undesirable. 

Someone's religion or belief may even be the actual reason they are a valid asylum seeker as their religion may be outlawed in their country of origin leading to a need for asylum elsewhere.

i believe the religion of this country for the last half a millennium or so has been Church of England!

so,if he or anyone else is claiming to be Christian,i'll bet my jacobs that they're Roman Catholic and again i dare bet the same jacobs that somewhere on the trek from Africa they've passed within spitting distance of Italy.

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

i believe the religion of this country for the last half a millennium or so has been Church of England!

so,if he or anyone else is claiming to be Christian,i'll bet my jacobs that they're Roman Catholic and again i dare bet the same jacobs that somewhere on the trek from Africa they've passed within spitting distance of Italy.

Whatever it is the sooner we knock this spiritualism off its perch the better. Even my firearms, and pension renewals allow for signatures from followers of the super natural. For my money they are more likely to support fiddling than anyone. Religion should be kicked out of our politics. 

[Wymondley]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Religion should be kicked out of our politics

Absolutely.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

I believe the religion of this country for the last half a millennium or so has been Church of England!

The 'official' religion - yes

But we have (for almost as long) tolerated and accepted other religions.  I cannot think of any that are 'banned' here?

We have many from a great many other religions in Government, Parliament, business, public employment, the Armed Forces, and even in our prisons!  We are a diverse country - and (despite organisations like BLM saying otherwise) we don't discriminate by race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc..

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Religion should be kicked out of our politics

Actually - we are non religious in politics.  Unless I've misunderstood, we have a Hindu Prime Minister at present and have had many different religions in Gov't/Parliament.

[oowee]

6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The 'official' religion - yes

But we have (for almost as long) tolerated and accepted other religions.  I cannot think of any that are 'banned' here?

We have many from a great many other religions in Government, Parliament, business, public employment, the Armed Forces, and even in our prisons!  We are a diverse country - and (despite organisations like BLM saying otherwise) we don't discriminate by race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc..

Actually - we are non religious in politics.  Unless I've misunderstood, we have a Hindu Prime Minister at present and have had many different religions in Gov't/Parliament.

If only. The 'Church' has special overriding control of new laws. Death penalty, euthanasia all controlled. 

[Gordon R]

I am unclear as to why Christianity is an excuse for non deportation. If he was returned from whence he came, he wouldn't just announce "I am a Christian" as he stepped off the plane. If he was in genuine fear, he would keep his mouth shut and behave himself.

It is beyond pathetic. Whenever we get a Home Secretary who wants to tackle the problem, we start hearing rumours that they have upset a few precious staff and want them to do as they are told. The Civil Service duty is to serve the Government of the day.

They need a fair number of sackings to remind them of their job..

[amateur]

38 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

........It is beyond pathetic. Whenever we get a Home Secretary who wants to tackle the problem, we start hearing rumours that they have upset a few precious staff and want them to do as they are told. The Civil Service duty is to serve the Government of the day.

They need a fair number of sackings to remind them of their job..

The civil service and judiciary were infected by Blair, precisely to muck up future Conservative governments

[Zoli 12 guage]

35 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I am unclear as to why Christianity is an excuse for non deportation. If he was returned from whence he came, he wouldn't just announce "I am a Christian" as he stepped off the plane. If he was in genuine fear, he would keep his mouth shut and behave himself.

It is beyond pathetic. Whenever we get a Home Secretary who wants to tackle the problem, we start hearing rumours that they have upset a few precious staff and want them to do as they are told. The Civil Service duty is to serve the Government of the day.

They need a fair number of sackings to remind them of their job..

couldn't have put it better myself

😝

43 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

 

[Penelope]

26 minutes ago, amateur said:

The civil service and judiciary were infected by Blair, precisely to muck up future Conservative governments

All part of the Globalist plan to remove the nation state.

B'liar is a Globalist and quite likely the successor to Uncle Klaus at the WEF. They have been playing the Marxist game for a long, long time. Infiltrare everywhere and everything.

[old man]

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

The judge hearing his appeal clearly believed it.  Judges are appointed to be good at judging people's character and truthfulness.  Some of these 'asylum seekers' are very skilled conmen/criminals.

Probably best to avoid the veracity of many

Edited February 2, 2024 by old man

[12gauge82]

5 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Parliament sets the law.  The Gov't are currently trying to change laws in immigration (Rwanda) and Parliament - both Commons and Lords - are making that very slow and hard going - and that is for a quite minor change.

Just like on Brexit when a 'previously largely unknown' person called Gina Miller caused all sorts of delay, doubt and huge expense - we have similar happening again. 

The whole 'establishment' of the legal profession, civil service, Courts system not to mention a shed load of 'influencers' (I don't really understand who they are but they have loads of 'followers' and are well funded) has - both on Brexit and immigration - become a much more effective 'opposition' than "His Majesty's Loyal Opposition" - who being led by a (he claims now former) republican are unlikely to fit the 'loyal' description.

Its time for a parliament clear out, they've had long enough to sort all this out and make the laws necessary to make the necessary changes.

5 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

I am not sure that is the case here, but we certainly have a lot of 'carried over' rules and since we left the EU (and I'm not convinced we have fully left) we have retained many of those carried over rules.

It is my impression that much recent law is much more open to challenge on various grounds.  I suspect that some of the blame for that may rest with the EU because;

• EU law was written to be used under the multiple different legal and judicial systems operated by different 'member states'.
• It was very probably written in another language and so may have lost clarity and focus in translation
• Because it has to be used by 'member states' under their own judicial systems, often test cases are used to define the detail by case law.  This means having test cases to 'probe for loopholes and errors' to put in bluntly.  It is hugely time consuming and expensive as it often elevates up the legal courts pyramid of appeals and results in a very slow system and with great complexity of detailed case law which may end up being different in different 'member states'.

Having a central Parliament used to pass laws to be operated by different judiciaries in different 'member states' does indeed seem like a recipe for a system that will end up bogged down in detail and strangled by red tape - but that is the EU all over.

Certainly it cannot be right or sensible that we have (publicly funded) appeals fighting the (publicly funded) Home Office - all the money going to the pockets of the legal profession and judiciary and making decisions that (to quote the thread title) 'makes the blood boil' for a large part of the electorate.

 

You make some good points here and I believe your right on your assessment of our continuing alignment with the EU. But again, that's MP's within the conservatives (I know Labour would have been worse) who have belligerently refused to deliver what was voted for.

[Yellow Bear]

9 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Its time for a parliament clear out

Sadly that is not the solution unless we have a Total "Civil Service" clear out first and remove the problems caused by them effectively blocking anything they dislike, and that includes Brexit.

Edited February 2, 2024 by Yellow Bear

[12gauge82]

2 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Sadly that is not the solution unless we have a Total "Civil Service" clear out first and remove the problems caused by them effectively blocking anything they dislike, and that includes Brexit.

2 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

 

Parliament absolutely has the power to do it. They just dont seem interested.

[Newbie to this]

7 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Parliament absolutely has the power to do it. They just dont seem interested.

Cummings tried, it didn't bode well....

[12gauge82]

12 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Cummings tried, it didn't bode well....

No because parliament is full of self serving career politicians who don't want any change to the status quo as it would mean rolling their sleeves up and doing some work, or are so indoctrinated they agree with the establishment woke agenda.

[pork chop]

Wants dropping feet first into a meat grinder