Cartridge manufacturer price difference

[BobbyH]

Hi all,

Im not after starting a huge debate, or shouting matches….But,

Is there any genuine difference between cartridge manufacturers and performance?

For example, 

Fiocchi FBlu 24g 7.5s plastic are £70x250 1480fps

Hull Soverign 24g 7.5s plastic are £96x250 1550fps

 

There is only 70FPS difference in it, so to that end, is it really worth spending an extra £26 just for the brand? 
Wont they perform more or less exactly the same?

I know some people are sponsored by certain brands and they will always say that they are the best, but realistically…..isn’t a cheap cartridge more or less the same as it’s expensive counterpart?

Edited March 20 by BobbyH

[Westley]

To be honest I have never been a cartridge buff. The price is high on my agenda, BUT, once I find a cartridge that is 'clean'  in use, produces good kills through my 2  x  1/4 chokes and is easy on my shoulder, I stick with it. It just happens to be F Blues in 24 and 28 gram, plastic and fibre, but I am paying less than £70/250 for them.

[martinj]

I can't say if Sovereigns are worth the extra but I wouldn't pay the extra £26 because I believe FBlu's (28gram) are plenty good enough and use them regularly on REG shoots. perhaps I'd go up a class if I used Sovereigns but somehow I doubt it.

I've got a mate who keeps some Sovs in his bag for longer targets , they give him confidence but I don't see they are any better going by results.

Not a very scientific comparison 🙂

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Years ago my late Auntie Liz gave me Hull Sovereigns and paid me to shoot them, wonderful shells.

 

But when I am paying I use the cheapest shells I can get.

 

If you put them in the right place and they will kill clays, crows, wood pigeons, partridge and Pheasants.

 

I strongly believe there are NO bad shells these days.

[London Best]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

If you put them in the right place and they will kill clays, crows, wood pigeons, partridge and Pheasants.

 

I strongly believe there are NO bad shells these days.

Wot ‘e sed!

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I strongly believe there are NO bad shells these days.

Not quite true, but since good shells number 99% and the average game shooter misses 50% of the time, the chances are you would never notice an individual poor shell (that still functions), unless you get a slab of them and notice the continual variance in your performance. 

 

There is also the question of what is poor, a complete dud? Or doesn't meet expected tolerances but still kills everything within 40 yards?

Again there are shells out there that make a Full choke gun shoot a half choke or even quarter choke pattern (which I regard as a poor shell) but which most people would not notice or even claim they are great shells as they bring down everything due to the wider pattern that they are not aware of.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Not quite true, but since good shells number 99% and the average game shooter misses 50% of the time, the chances are you would never notice an individual poor shell (that still functions), unless you get a slab of them and notice the continual variance in your performance. 

 

There is also the question of what is poor, a complete dud? Or doesn't meet expected tolerances but still kills everything within 40 yards?

Again there are shells out there that make a Full choke gun shoot a half choke or even quarter choke pattern (which I regard as a poor shell) but which most people would not notice or even claim they are great shells as they bring down everything due to the wider pattern that they are not aware of.

I accept there may be an odd poor shell in amongst the slabs I use.

 

BUT I will say again there are NO bad shells in general.

 

I buy whatever is cheapest and use them.

[HantsRob]

I would agree they all kill.
I would also say there is a difference between the bottom and top of the scale.

For your example, they're 2 very similar carts. I believe patterning will completely depend on your forcing cone, choke, barrel length etc. I have seen the high end stuff pattern far worse than a cheap cart, so it really is down to what works for you. 

FBlu is a great "budget" cart. The only difference for a solid shooter between the 2 you listed will be the distance shot, where the slight more power is going to get it there a bit better before it drops. But, on a clay ground with "normal" targets? I doubt you'll notice a sausage.

Yes they have different powders (some may have a blend)
Yes they have different burn rates
Yes they will have different wads
Yes they will act differently
Yes they have different primers
More expensive should (not necessarily will) provide consistency of build and shot and pattern through a slab

For any shooter less than the pro circuit, I doubt there's any real difference. Also 24g to 24g, lesser so.

It would be more interesting to pose something like a cheap import with deformed balls, compared to a premium cart. That said, I cut open a rose gold and was disappointed with the inconsistency of shot compared to some lesser carts!

Your Q: are they different?

Yes, but you're only thinking FPS. There's more to consider, but at most peoples level it comes down to really unimportant things. I have seen shooters poo-poo a cartridge as it "leaves the barrels filthy" even if they hit 100%, forgetting one pass with paper/cloth will have that residue gone. They instead have a lesser 'clean' cart because there's no confetti, mess, and less of a bang.

You do you, however if you had a chance to shoot what Uncle Chaz can pay for, I'd enjoy it and try different things.

[Ken Pattison]

I used to use Hull SF, but last year on a couple of occasions in short supply, so gave Fiocchi Litespeed a go, never looked back, Litespeed 26gm (8) 1495 fps and Hull SF 27gm (7.5) 1500 fps. Nuts all in it, and go for Fiocchi now everytime, super cartridge, much cheaper!

Edited March 21 by Ken Pattison
spelling mistake

[oldypigeonpopper]

48 minutes ago, Ken Pattison said:

I used to use Hull SF, but last year on a couple of occasions in short supply, so gave Fiocchi Litespeed a go, never looked back, Litespeed 26gm (8) 1495 fps and Hull SF 27gm (7.5) 1500 fps. Nuts all in it, and go for Fiocchi now everytime, super catridge, much cheaper!

Hello, Just Carts now have Hull Super Fast on special offer, £279 per 1000

[Ken Pattison]

31 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, Just Carts now have Hull Super Fast on special offer, £279 per 1000

Yes thanks, I did see that, they sent out an email circular so had a look earlier this morning.

 

[London Best]

Don’t be fooled by muzzle velocities printed on cartons. 
The cartridges are unlikely to be achieving that speed. 
More importantly, no matter what speed the shot leaves the muzzle all shot is likely to be doing a similar speed by the time it has travelled twenty yards.

[Westley]

I put that much interest in cartridge speed, I couldn't even tell you what it is, in the cartridges that I am using. All I do know is, when the shot is on its way, you sure as hell ain't gonna catch it up !

[Sweet11-87]

i usually use a mid range 28g cartridge for clays like olympic blues or sporting 100, but we went out as a group today and took our lasses with us and we all just used 21g eley selects and honestly its comical how little recoil they have but they were still killing everything within "normal range through quarter and half, when a simple chip is marked as a break it might be the way forward...obviously they become a bit of a dice role on the further away stuff with a thin pattern. 

a ground near me do a 24g true 7 and got me thinking could that be the perfect decoy cartridge.

[Stimo22]

I had a shoulder problem and started to use Gamebore evo 21g because of the recoil. My scores improved so have continued with them . Also use some evo 24g as they also work through my Franchi auto

[Kev1gun]

The speed also depends on the Gun, For instance one day we were messing about with my magnetospeed chronograph on my Perazzi trap gun with 18.4 barrels and using gamebore White gold 28gr fibres with 32 inch barrel the 5 shot average was 1300fps, near to the advertised 1350fps, when then swapped it over to a Miroku MK38 with 32in barrels but these were back bored and 18.6 the 5 shot average was 1175fps, so the barrels made a difference. there was less recoil with the Miroku, and it broke the long crossers but not as convincingly as the tighter barrelled Perazzi. we did test a ew other brands and found that the slower ones patterned better. not scientific but it's what our findings were at the time.

[Fargo]

Go to usa and use their clay cartridges and all are 1240/1300 fps and no different scores to what we get

 

People are to worried about fps- makes no difference 

[Sweet11-87]

the US is very overkill same as the continent.  36g 5 and 4s sold as pigeon/dove cartridges

[Fargo]

19 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

the US is very overkill same as the continent.  36g 5 and 4s sold as pigeon/dove cartridges

Yes agree with you 

Dricen pheasant at 20 metre in Hungary and got 32/5 but lot where using 32-38/ 2’s

[Fellside]

I don’t think there is a significant difference between cheap / expensive clay cartridges in clay breaking terms. This is simply because they contain a huge number of pellets - e.g 450 size 8 in a 28 gram cart’. Even if the lead is soft and the velocity too snappy, average clays are still broken with poor patterns. With game or pigeon cart’s the quality difference is more telling, as the shot count is far less. With only about 290 pellets in a 30 gram 6, there is more chance of a poor pattern wounding or even not touching the bird. I have come across some real stinkers in budget pigeon cart’s over the years (poor in the field and on the pattern plate) so now use good quality game cart’s for all live quarry. 

I’ve gone off piste a little in referencing game cart’s, so for what it’s worth, my favourite clay cart’ is Fiocchi Fblu in 24 gram. I just like how smooth it is - and not a crazy price. Gamebore Evo is a close second. Weather their velocity is 1250 fps or 1350 fps I honestly don’t know, or mind, as the difference in all practical terms is irrelevant. 

[Westley]

On 21/03/2024 at 08:34, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I accept there may be an odd poor shell in amongst the slabs I use.

 

BUT I will say again there are NO bad shells in general.

 

I buy whatever is cheapest and use them.

My philosophy entirely. 

However, I do keep a box of Express World Cups in 6's in my range bag, just in case there is a 'long' target on the layout. On Wednesday, such a situation  arose, due to the high winds. A high slightly incoming teal target was being blown back on the wind to around the 60yds ish distance. I had previously shot at it with F Blues and missed all 3. I did it again with World Cups, changing only the cartridges, and not where I was shooting. I killed 2 of the 3 targets. Probably all in my head, but it worked.

[Fellside]

38 minutes ago, Westley said:

My philosophy entirely. 

However, I do keep a box of Express World Cups in 6's in my range bag, just in case there is a 'long' target on the layout. On Wednesday, such a situation  arose, due to the high winds. A high slightly incoming teal target was being blown back on the wind to around the 60yds ish distance. I had previously shot at it with F Blues and missed all 3. I did it again with World Cups, changing only the cartridges, and not where I was shooting. I killed 2 of the 3 targets. Probably all in my head, but it worked.

There’s no doubt that bigger pellets break the extreme clays better. Hence the popularity of 7s and even 6 1/2 for FITASC. Although using a ‘confidence’ cartridge of whatever type certainly helps. I was given a trial / prototype cart’ recently to test - 21 gram 6 1/2. The idea apparently being that you only need to strike the clay with one pellet to break it and zilch recoil. I tried them on an extreme compact sporting layout and have to admit I was pleasantly surprised. Don’t know if they’ll make it in to the shops or not - but my feedback was very positive. 

[Westley]

28 minutes ago, Fellside said:

There’s no doubt that bigger pellets break the extreme clays better. Hence the popularity of 7s and even 6 1/2 for FITASC. Although using a ‘confidence’ cartridge of whatever type certainly helps. I was given a trial / prototype cart’ recently to test - 21 gram 6 1/2. The idea apparently being that you only need to strike the clay with one pellet to break it and zilch recoil. I tried them on an extreme compact sporting layout and have to admit I was pleasantly surprised. Don’t know if they’ll make it in to the shops or not - but my feedback was very positive. 

Some of the ranges I have seen beginners shooting at and breaking clays with 21 grams are astounding, and my guns are all 1/4 choke.

[Fargo]

11 hours ago, Fellside said:

There’s no doubt that bigger pellets break the extreme clays better. Hence the popularity of 7s and even 6 1/2 for FITASC. Although using a ‘confidence’ cartridge of whatever type certainly helps. I was given a trial / prototype cart’ recently to test - 21 gram 6 1/2. The idea apparently being that you only need to strike the clay with one pellet to break it and zilch recoil. I tried them on an extreme compact sporting layout and have to admit I was pleasantly surprised. Don’t know if they’ll make it in to the shops or not - but my feedback was very positive. 

I have some paper case 21g 61/2’s somewhere made for some one round London years ago for game shooting 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

20 hours ago, Westley said:

My philosophy entirely. 

However, I do keep a box of Express World Cups in 6's in my range bag, just in case there is a 'long' target on the layout. On Wednesday, such a situation  arose, due to the high winds. A high slightly incoming teal target was being blown back on the wind to around the 60yds ish distance. I had previously shot at it with F Blues and missed all 3. I did it again with World Cups, changing only the cartridges, and not where I was shooting. I killed 2 of the 3 targets. Probably all in my head, but it worked.

Yes indeed, I carry a box of special 6 1/2s for the extremely long targets, they can be a game changer.

 

Northampton S.G. often put a long rabbit crosser so far out that you would NOT shoot at it if it was a real bunny.

It is usually shot as a single target with full use of both barrels, great to hit all of them with the first barrel giving 16 foot of lead.

 

I loved the original blue World Cups.