National service

[Lloyd90]

22 minutes ago, old man said:

The problem maybe, is the con artists queuing up to give us their full canvas?

A sad affair when the only vote is to be for the least personal harm?

When’s it been any different? 
 

I’ve never agreed with one single party 100%. 

[udderlyoffroad]

1 minute ago, Lloyd90 said:

When’s it been any different? 

Indeed, amazing the amount of people that struggle with the idea of "democracy is voting for the least worst option".

In this election, that might mean to some people 'time for the other lot to have a go' or "I'm voting for a third party"

[Gordon R]

The trouble with voting for a third party is that Tories or Labour will get in anyway.

[ditchman]

7 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

The trouble with voting for a third party is that Tories or Labour will get in anyway.

the thing is...at the end of the day you will live with the desision to vote for a mainstream party...so if you vote for a non mainstream party...at least you can live with your desision

so if you dont vote you have no right to comment....your vote is the most valuable thing you have...nobody can control how you use that vote...(not yet anyway)

[udderlyoffroad]

33 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

The trouble with voting for a third party is that Tories or Labour will get in anyway.

Indeed, but I think it's realistic, in this election anyway, to expect a decent amount of 3rd party MPs to be elected.

Conservatives have been abandoned by their party, and Keir Starmer's Labour hardly appeals to the 'red wall'.  Also people just don't vote along tribal/family lines anymore, at least nowhere near as much as they did.

So we'll probably end up with a coalition, but that might even be a good thing if it helps to reign in the more...unpopular policies that both main parties seem to support (net zero and unchecked legal migration springs to mind).

[Gordon R]

Problem with coalitions is Scotland. The Green Party forcing the SNP to adopt lunatic policies as the price of their support.

[Genghis]

2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Indeed, but I think it's realistic, in this election anyway, to expect a decent amount of 3rd party MPs to be elected.

Conservatives have been abandoned by their party, and Keir Starmer's Labour hardly appeals to the 'red wall'.  Also people just don't vote along tribal/family lines anymore, at least nowhere near as much as they did.

So we'll probably end up with a coalition, but that might even be a good thing if it helps to reign in the more...unpopular policies that both main parties seem to support (net zero and unchecked legal migration springs to mind).

According to the bookies, Labour are currently predicted to have around a 92.6% chance of winning an overall majority. It’s unlikely that they’ll need to form a coalition.

 

The bookies are also predicting that Reform overtake Lib Dems as the ‘third’ party. There may actually be hope for a future Reform government, I just hope that Labour don’t make any absurd changes to gun laws over the next 5 years.

[oowee]

If you vote for a third party it will also influence the policy of the party in power. Look how the politics of reform have corrupted the Tories as an example. 

True coalition politics is the only way to get out of the rabbit hole of decline we are in. 

[Rim Fire]

 

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Edited May 29 by Rim Fire

[Penelope]

23 minutes ago, oowee said:

If you vote for a third party it will also influence the policy of the party in power. Look how the politics of UKIP forced the Conservatives to act on Brexit.

True coalition politics is the only way to get out of the rabbit hole of decline we are in. 

Corrected that for you Oowee 😁

[Gordon R]

Penelope - correct.

[udderlyoffroad]

56 minutes ago, Genghis said:

According to the bookies, Labour are currently predicted to have around a 92.6% chance of winning an overall majority. It’s unlikely that they’ll need to form a coalition.

 

The bookies are also predicting that Reform overtake Lib Dems as the ‘third’ party. There may actually be hope for a future Reform government, I just hope that Labour don’t make any absurd changes to gun laws over the next 5 years.

Bookies?  Pah. Bookies and pollsters, 2 cheeks of the same backside.  They also told us that Ed Miliband would be prime minister, remain would win by a landslide, Trump wouldn't get anywhere near the White House...Oh sure they get it right occasionally, usually in exit polls.

I predict parliament will have a significant number of 3rd party MPs come the 5th of July.

48 minutes ago, oowee said:

Look how the politics of reform have corrupted the Tories as an example. 

Interesting choice of words.  Reform are far more like traditional Conservatives than the modern Conservative party, which is basically New Labour Mk II.  So whilst I agree with @Penelope's correction, I'd also suggest the following...

"Look at how the politics of reform have reminded the Tories what their base want"

This mantra of 'elections are won in the centre' has been overplayed by both parties, and if coalitions are the future (as @oowee has advocated for many times), the parties had better start appealing to their core voters.

Edited May 29 by udderlyoffroad

[oowee]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Bookies?  Pah. Bookies and pollsters, 2 cheeks of the same backside.  They also told us that Ed Miliband would be prime minister, remain would win by a landslide, Trump wouldn't get anywhere near the White House...Oh sure they get it right occasionally, usually in exit polls.

I predict parliament will have a significant number of 3rd party MPs come the 5th of July.

Interesting choice of words.  Reform are far more like traditional Conservatives than the modern Conservative party, which is basically New Labour Mk II.  So whilst I agree with @Penelope's correction, I'd also suggest the following...

"Look at how the politics of reform have reminded the Tories what their base want"

This mantra of 'elections are won in the centre' has been overplayed by both parties, and if coalitions are the future (as @oowee has advocated for many times), the parties had better start appealing to their core voters.

I think maybe the politics of reform are on the fringe. Whilst moving that way will win votes that has to be balanced with the loss of Liberal moderates. 

Maybe that's the Conservative core that favour reform is like the momentum base of Labour too far to the edge. Its the parties that can capture the centre that will take the prize. In Scotland the centre is maybe further left with an independence bias hence the collapse of the Tory vote. 

That's why I would favour a coalition (not the two party kind) that can better reflect the shades of politics across the country. 

[Minky]

when I first heard about this (crackpot) idea I just reacted with, throw it in box 13. BUT  when I had a think about it I had a reasesment. considering that with all of the munitions that we and other European nations are sending the Ukrainians they aren't anywhere near the daily requirement which needs the American support.  In the event of a situation developing we wouldn't have a fraction of the troop levels , ammunition,  artillery and everything that a modern conflict absorbs.  Perhaps we do need some sort of military training for all of the  population to prepare for the worst.  Mind you I can't see the economy being able to sustain any of the requirement. AND the fact that fair proportion of the population are pretty much oxygen thieves. 

 

[oowee]

29 minutes ago, Minky said:

when I first heard about this (crackpot) idea I just reacted with, throw it in box 13. BUT  when I had a think about it I had a reasesment. considering that with all of the munitions that we and other European nations are sending the Ukrainians they aren't anywhere near the daily requirement which needs the American support.  In the event of a situation developing we wouldn't have a fraction of the troop levels , ammunition,  artillery and everything that a modern conflict absorbs.  Perhaps we do need some sort of military training for all of the  population to prepare for the worst.  Mind you I can't see the economy being able to sustain any of the requirement. AND the fact that fair proportion of the population are pretty much oxygen thieves. 

 

😁 nowt wrong with ideas they just need some foundation. No point smoking a joint and writing down ideas for future reference. 

[12gauge82]

8 hours ago, Gordon R said:

The trouble with voting for a third party is that Tories or Labour will get in anyway.

They will if people keep spouting that and voting with Labour or Tories.

[Stonepark]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

I think maybe the politics of reform are on the fringe. Whilst moving that way will win votes that has to be balanced with the loss of Liberal moderates.

 

Reform Uk are so much on the fringe, a very quick look at their policies.......

 

personal taxes should be fair and the worse off protected (eg £20k income tax excemption),

NetZero is a waste of money and time, get rid of

Men are born Men and Women are born Women,

paedophiles should be jailed and castrated,

mass immigration destroys a nations culture, 

NHS is adequately funded but hugely mismanaged,

NHS waiting lists are avoidable

we need a proper professional army to protect eh Uk but not enter into overseass American regime change wars,

veterans should be properly supported

we should look after our own people first before tending to those overseas,

anyone sex changing a child should be prosecuted, for child abuse

teachers should concentrate on teaching and not preaching ideologies

we should expolit our own energy resources for energy security

we should control our own fisheries

we shuld support our own agriculture

we should abolish the house of lords

first pst the post should be changed for proportional representation to better reflect the publics will

low taxes for business to promote growth

remove fuel duty from both petrol and diesel to promote growth

prevent homelessness by support and rehabilitation

 

Reform Uk represents probably to a large extent a very large number of people and whilst it may take a few elections, Reform UK MP's are coming.

In support numbers it took UKIP 20 years to get to the stage Reform Uk are now approaching after only 3 years.

 

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

 

Reform Uk are so much on the fringe, a very quick look at their policies.......

 

 

Yep on the fringe. 

[Gordon R]

On the fringe they may be, but Stonepark is correct in saying many people would support their policies. 

"Liberal moderates" did make me smile. A bunch of no hopers led by the truly dire Ed Davey.

[oowee]

9 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

On the fringe they may be, but Stonepark is correct in saying many people would support their policies. 

"Liberal moderates" did make me smile. A bunch of no hopers led by the truly dire Ed Davey.

I was talking about liberal moderate tories not liberals 🙂 

[Gordon R]

You used "Liberal moderates" not liberal moderates. That was your error. 🙂

 

[Penelope]

9 hours ago, Gordon R said:

You used "Liberal moderates" not liberal moderates. That was your error. 🙂

 

Ouch!