shaun4860 Posted November 26 Report Share Posted November 26 All those that think that taxing the rich more is the best way out of austerity, read on. For those of you reciting the 'Tories defend the rich' argument, read this. It's worth it, I assure you. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100... If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this... The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay £1. The sixth would pay £3. The seventh would pay £7.. The eighth would pay £12. The ninth would pay £18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59. So, that's what they decided to do.. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20". Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay. And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving). The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving). The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving). The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving). The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving). The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving). Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a pound out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,"but he got £10!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a pound too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!" "That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier. David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics. For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted November 26 Report Share Posted November 26 13 minutes ago, shaun4860 said: All those that think that taxing the rich more is the best way out of austerity, read on. For those of you reciting the 'Tories defend the rich' argument, read this. It's worth it, I assure you. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100... If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this... The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay £1. The sixth would pay £3. The seventh would pay £7.. The eighth would pay £12. The ninth would pay £18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59. So, that's what they decided to do.. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20". Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay. And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving). The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving). The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving). The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving). The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving). The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving). Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a pound out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,"but he got £10!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a pound too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!" "That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier. David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics. For those who understand , no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible. Far to complicated for me Shaun , gone then are the days when just you and your mate would buy a round each and got change out of a ten bob note Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted November 27 Report Share Posted November 27 10 hours ago, shaun4860 said: All those that think that taxing the rich more is the best way out of austerity, read on. For those of you reciting the 'Tories defend the rich' argument, read this. It's worth it, I assure you. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100... If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this... The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay £1. The sixth would pay £3. The seventh would pay £7.. The eighth would pay £12. The ninth would pay £18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59. So, that's what they decided to do.. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20". Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay. And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving). The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving). The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving). The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving). The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving). The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving). Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a pound out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,"but he got £10!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a pound too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!" "That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier. David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics. For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible. Brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted November 27 Report Share Posted November 27 I’m afraid that too many, even when faced with this wonderful example, still can’t see it and that’s the biggest problem. Simple lack of understanding as to Global funding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 27 Report Share Posted November 27 Nice one Shaun, thanks for posting that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted November 27 Report Share Posted November 27 Very good explanation, looks like we will be finding out in real time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badf1shman Posted November 27 Report Share Posted November 27 Brilliant explanation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 27 Report Share Posted November 27 On 26/11/2024 at 19:58, shaun4860 said: All those that think that taxing the rich more is the best way out of austerity, read on. For those of you reciting the 'Tories defend the rich' argument, read this. It's worth it, I assure you. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100... If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this... The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay £1. The sixth would pay £3. The seventh would pay £7.. The eighth would pay £12. The ninth would pay £18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59. So, that's what they decided to do.. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20". Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay. And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving). The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving). The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving). The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving). The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving). The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving). Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a pound out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,"but he got £10!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a pound too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!" "That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier. David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics. For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible. All well and good but it ignores how the richest men got rich. It's not from their sole labour, that would be impossible. They are making money through the hard work of some of the poorest. It the rich don't pay their fair share on tax, society would quickly implode and there'd be no poor to make them rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted November 28 Report Share Posted November 28 On 26/11/2024 at 20:18, marsh man said: Far to complicated for me Shaun , gone then are the days when just you and your mate would buy a round each and got change out of a ten bob note Today you'd be lucky to get change from a ten pound note😮💨😮💨 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted November 28 Report Share Posted November 28 14 minutes ago, PhilR said: Today you'd be lucky to get change from a ten pound note😮💨😮💨 A week ago, during an after shoot meal, 1 x pint Guinness, 2 pints of Cola.....£12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted November 28 Report Share Posted November 28 8 minutes ago, PhilR said: Today you'd be lucky to get change from a ten pound note😮💨😮💨 I now only go in the pub one night a year when we have our shoot dinner , I rarely drink so I take one of the shoot helpers so he can have a drink or two without worrying about driving home , when I went to the wildfowlers meeting on a pay your subs night I would have a pint of shandy , I didn't have a clue how much it was so I gave the barman a fiver , each year I was getting less and less change so your £10 prediction would be bang on and possibly in some places a tenner might not cover two pints . A t b MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted November 28 Report Share Posted November 28 1 hour ago, marsh man said: I now only go in the pub one night a year when we have our shoot dinner , I rarely drink so I take one of the shoot helpers so he can have a drink or two without worrying about driving home , when I went to the wildfowlers meeting on a pay your subs night I would have a pint of shandy , I didn't have a clue how much it was so I gave the barman a fiver , each year I was getting less and less change so your £10 prediction would be bang on and possibly in some places a tenner might not cover two pints . A t b MM One and Tenpence a pint when I started to drink 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted November 28 Report Share Posted November 28 14 minutes ago, johnphilip said: One and Tenpence a pint when I started to drink 😉 I remember it at 1/6d for mild when I started ( aged 16), with bitter 1/8d. That tuppence made all the difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted November 28 Report Share Posted November 28 1 hour ago, johnphilip said: One and Tenpence a pint when I started to drink 😉 when I started 11d (less than 5p) for a pint of scrumpy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted November 28 Report Share Posted November 28 2 hours ago, johnphilip said: One and Tenpence a pint when I started to drink 😉 49 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: when I started 11d (less than 5p) for a pint of scrumpy. 2 hours ago, amateur said: I remember it at 1/6d for mild when I started ( aged 16), with bitter 1/8d. That tuppence made all the difference! Like all things in life , nothing will ever stay the same , that tuppence certainly did make a difference as my bus fare was only a penny and many a time we would be off the bus before the conductor could climb the stairs to get to the top deck , newspapers seem to increase a lot quicker than they ever did , my ole chap used to buy the Eastern Evening News for 3d and on the Sunday he would get the News Of The World , can't remember how much that was , now I get the Eastern Daily Press daily for £1.30 and on a Saturday it is £2.30, when I bought my first Shooting Times it was 1s/3d , when I looked at last weeks the other day it was £3.95 , where will it all end ? MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dainty duck Posted November 29 Report Share Posted November 29 On 28/11/2024 at 11:23, johnphilip said: One and Tenpence a pint when I started to drink 😉 1shilling & 6pennies , a mate and I at the age of 13 & 14 went in Billy Greens and asked for2 halves , the barman called Bud who was also the local grave digger who wore no shoes (frightening chap) looked down the bar to where Billy was sat , Billy was the long standing holder off the Pit men's belt for boxing (even more frightening) said if they sing a song give em drink lol carnt remember what we sang but it was a good while before I went back into the Phoenix ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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