JohnfromUK Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: I don't buy it. We have enough police, but they're running around dealing with missing people, mental health and domestics which are always given more priority, even when the officers on the ground know it's the same kid that runs off from the home every week. The same couple that fight then make up. The same person with MH who uses the police as a crutch and has no real intent of killing themselves. While the law abiding and hard working people like the farmer and his family in this case are left to fend for themselves. This country needs a change, the police need their red tape cutting and the right people need to be employed and policing prioritys changed. My neighbours had a fire a few years ago (probably started by a birds nest over an outdoor halogen light). Not trivial, but no risk to life, no suspicious circumstances - just destroyed a garage roof and damaged a couple of rooms (smoke and water damage). One fire engine had it out in 15 minutes. Its on a quiet 'loop' road with two easy and short diversions. Four police cars (pretty sure 6 people) turned up and two stayed all evening as the fire people damped down etc. The police did precisely nothing. They have no shortage for the easy jobs, but won't attend a burglary, poaching etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 YouTube is full of police turning up at none events. example a guy legally flying. A drone. Two police cars. With 4 coppers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 13 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: A defeatist attitude imo. 10 cop cars arrive together with blues and twos I'm sure they'd scatter and if not, if they'd employed the right people who could handle themselves rather than give a lecturer on non crime hate incidents, with a few police dogs and batons drawn, I'm sure they'd win the day. 😂😂😂😂😂 Very good. Did you see the Manchester Airport video ? THAT was the result of 'fighting back'. Do you really believe that they would depart at the sight of the Police vehicles ? Do you also believe that today Police Officers are still allowed to use the degree of force that these CC members require. Your fantasy world was ending before I retired and that was 23 years ago. The only offences that I can see are trespass on land in pursuit of game, which has no power of arrest. Yes, there is criminal damage, but you are unlikely to get farmers making statements to prove damage, for fear of reprisals. Of course the CC members are fully aware of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 On 29/01/2025 at 21:58, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, A few years back we had Coursers on my friends Farm, they left a Landy in the Mud , We had to let them come and take it away on Police advice !!! Hello, They did not like us calling the Police and getting arrested but released without charge, They came back and set fire to a giant stack of straw bales , but they were sold off the field to the contractor , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 12 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: My neighbours had a fire a few years ago (probably started by a birds nest over an outdoor halogen light). Not trivial, but no risk to life, no suspicious circumstances - just destroyed a garage roof and damaged a couple of rooms (smoke and water damage). One fire engine had it out in 15 minutes. Its on a quiet 'loop' road with two easy and short diversions. Four police cars (pretty sure 6 people) turned up and two stayed all evening as the fire people damped down etc. The police did precisely nothing. They have no shortage for the easy jobs, but won't attend a burglary, poaching etc. I've also seen it, they can turn out en mass when it's been 'graded' as needing the response. The problem seems to be their prioritys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 (edited) 10 hours ago, Westley said: 😂😂😂😂😂 Very good. Did you see the Manchester Airport video ? THAT was the result of 'fighting back'. Do you really believe that they would depart at the sight of the Police vehicles ? Do you also believe that today Police Officers are still allowed to use the degree of force that these CC members require. Your fantasy world was ending before I retired and that was 23 years ago. The only offences that I can see are trespass on land in pursuit of game, which has no power of arrest. Yes, there is criminal damage, but you are unlikely to get farmers making statements to prove damage, for fear of reprisals. Of course the CC members are fully aware of this. Yes I did see that video and noted not all the cops there seemed to possess the attitude and determination needed to do what was necessary to protect themselves, the public and detain and control the incident. I also noted they tried to scapegoat the one officer who was up to the task, I and I'm sure most of the public thought he did a fantastic job, which shows how broken modern policing is. Would they depart at the sight of police vehicles, maybe, maybe not. But they'd soon start to if everytime criminals were violent towards the law, it ended badly for them. If the clash were still writing songs, I don't think it'd be about the law winning. Do I still think police are allowed to use necessary force. Sometimes, but often, unfortunately not, I think ultimately, they don't get found criminally guilty, but the process they face after using serious force is enough to put them off doing what's needed and creates a system that encourages the police not to do their job for certain cases. I also believe some who are recruited aren't capable, with some being very efficient at paperwork and building files, but utterly useless in a confrontation with a violent criminal. which is my point, policing prioritys seem to have gone in the wrong direction the last 20-30years. Your last paragraph is the problem with modern policing, "I can't see any offences", or "there's not enough evidence", the reason for that is the police don't turn out to gather the evidence anymore and hardworking, decent, normal, everyday people are left to suffer at the hands of criminals while offenders and poor copers drain the police, using them like a mental health service. Edited February 2 by 12gauge82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 43 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Yes I did see that video and noted not all the cops there seemed to possess the attitude and determination needed to do what was necessary to protect themselves, the public and detain and control the incident. I also noted they tried to scapegoat the one officer who was up to the task, I and I'm sure most of the public thought he did a fantastic job, which shows how broken modern policing is. Would they depart at the sight of police vehicles, maybe, maybe not. But they'd soon start to if everytime criminals were violent towards the law, it ended badly for them. If the clash were still writing songs, I don't think it'd be about the law winning. Do I still think police are allowed to use necessary force. Sometimes, but often, unfortunately not, I think ultimately, they don't get found criminally guilty, but the process they face after using serious force is enough to put them off doing what's needed and creates a system that encourages the police not to do their job for certain cases. I also believe some who are recruited aren't capable, with some being very efficient at paperwork and building files, but utterly useless in a confrontation with a violent criminal. which is my point, policing prioritys seem to have gone in the wrong direction the last 20-30years. Your last paragraph is the problem with modern policing, "I can't see any offences", or "there's not enough evidence", the reason for that is the police don't turn out to gather the evidence anymore and hardworking, decent, normal, everyday people are left to suffer at the hands of criminals while offenders and poor copers drain the police, using them like a mental health service. So, even if the Police had attended earlier, with the limited resources they had, how do you suggest they should deal with a mob of possibly 70 plus, fast moving offenders ? That, coupled with everybody there having a phone/camera. I only hope that those who were there, have sufficient video evidence AND are prepared to make complainants statements, to get those jobs past the CPS. Even should it get to Court, the sentences handed out will certainly not fit the crime. NONE of which can be blamed on the Police. Only last week an Offender who was found to be carrying a 'bladed article' (otherwise known as a knife) in public, received a SUSPENDED SENTENCE. I can not begin to imagine how the Police Officers that dealt with that are feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 10 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, They did not like us calling the Police and getting arrested but released without charge, They came back and set fire to a giant stack of straw bales , but they were sold off the field to the contractor , Hello, This was in 2012 but a lot has happen since and we still get Coursers, Both farmers have passed on as it was run by 2 families now only 1, The latest to hit the Farm and many others in the Area is the new Reservoir and will dwarf Farmoor in size, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 17 minutes ago, Westley said: So, even if the Police had attended earlier, with the limited resources they had, how do you suggest they should deal with a mob of possibly 70 plus, fast moving offenders ? That, coupled with everybody there having a phone/camera. I only hope that those who were there, have sufficient video evidence AND are prepared to make complainants statements, to get those jobs past the CPS. Even should it get to Court, the sentences handed out will certainly not fit the crime. NONE of which can be blamed on the Police. Only last week an Offender who was found to be carrying a 'bladed article' (otherwise known as a knife) in public, received a SUSPENDED SENTENCE. I can not begin to imagine how the Police Officers that dealt with that are feeling. They should have all had their details taken and been ordered to leave the land for a mixture of aggravated trespass and criminal damage, anyone refusing, details (or if the provided details were in doubt, or offering resistance, should have been nicked. If a couple of units were sent initially and faced any issues with gathering evidence, backup should have been sent, so the criminals be dealt with properly. Whats so radical about that. The public wanting criminals to face justice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 17 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: They should have all had their details taken and been ordered to leave the land for a mixture of aggravated trespass and criminal damage, anyone refusing, details (or if the provided details were in doubt, or offering resistance, should have been nicked. If a couple of units were sent initially and faced any issues with gathering evidence, backup should have been sent, so the criminals be dealt with properly. Whats so radical about that. The public wanting criminals to face justice? Once upon a time, a Bobby on a bike would have sorted the whole incident PDQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 18 minutes ago, London Best said: Once upon a time, a Bobby on a bike would have sorted the whole incident PDQ. Certainly true of the guys that used to sort out the Iron Gates Taverna?😄😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 2 hours ago, London Best said: Once upon a time, a Bobby on a bike would have sorted the whole incident PDQ. Unfortunately today, that Bobby is now too busy trying to avoid being injured. One a day throughout the Country, with 4 a week being serious assaults. Recently a Police Woman was mown down by a car she was trying to stop in Manchester. With no custodial sentences being given to those guilty of assaulting an emergency worker, what is there to lose ? Now it's the turn of ambulance crews too. They are also being assaulted on a daily basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Westley said: Unfortunately today, that Bobby is now too busy trying to avoid being injured. One a day throughout the Country, with 4 a week being serious assaults. Recently a Police Woman was mown down by a car she was trying to stop in Manchester. With no custodial sentences being given to those guilty of assaulting an emergency worker, what is there to lose ? Now it's the turn of ambulance crews too. They are also being assaulted on a daily basis. I know. But WHY? What is wrong with people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 3 hours ago, London Best said: But WHY? Because criminals know they can act with impunity. It's this pink fluffy policing and prioritising minimising harm instead of preventing crime. Here's an example:- a police persuit, criminals know that if they drive dangerously enough the police will break off their persuit of them. The polices reasoning is that it's safer. Imo it's not, if every criminal was within reason persued in a car chase and harsh sentences given out for dangerous driving and failure to stop. The criminals would get locked up and not be on the streets to commit crime, they would stop fleeing as they'd know their not going to get away and be punished servery when caught. Not pursuing therefore makes more danger in the long run by creating lawless criminals with no fear of being caught and ultimately bought to justice. Multiply that by many offences these days, coupled with 2 tier policing and the end result is what we have today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 11 hours ago, Westley said: So, even if the Police had attended earlier, with the limited resources they had, how do you s I have been informed that "The Police" had forewarned Farmers of this event taking place on that day....and that "the police" found time and incentive to attend another "non-event" elsewhere -(in numbers) leaving ONE squad car to hhmmm - "attend" any disruption - - while the CC were conducting their unofficial coursing championship event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 (edited) I'm out.......I shall sit back and wait for the Police to start the next riots. Meanwhile I shall hide behind my 'blue haze' 😂😂 Edited February 2 by Westley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 On 01/02/2025 at 14:48, TIGHTCHOKE said: But HATE CRIME is FAR more IMPORTANT than REAL Crime....................................... All part of the plan. On 01/02/2025 at 18:12, GrayA said: When that nasty talk leads to people trying to set fire to hotels with people in them...... or the cops getting bottles thrown at them or local community centres torched or Police cars set on fire.... you think that crime should go unpunished? As far as the cops are concerned, churning up some fields and hare coursing are way down their list of priorities.... Criminal Damage charges are usually met with a small fine... or no action.... If you want high levels of Police numbers to be able to respond and all those local police stations reopened, mine is now a Funeral Parlour... then we'll have to pay a lot more tax and no one wants that. Marshal law? if that ever happened, we'd all be made to hand in our guns.... Oowee, have you changed your username? 23 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, This was in 2012 but a lot has happen since and we still get Coursers, Both farmers have passed on as it was run by 2 families now only 1, The latest to hit the Farm and many others in the Area is the new Reservoir and will dwarf Farmoor in size, Well, the new incomers do have to wash 5 times a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 Ive said many times on here that that the 'ethnic minority' of travs are a law unto themselves, they abide by their own 'rules' Weve seen it time and again, they arent bothered by police, or the consequences of being arrested. To stop and detain a large group of possibly armed individuals would require a 3 to 1 police response (with ARVs) just to contain them, there simply was not enough police in the county to do this. Even if you said they were randomly shooting guns out the vehicles, I doubt very much there would have been any response, due to risk of officers being hurt. Now if you said one of the farmers had discharged a firearm... Well you can imagine some kind of armed siege using all available resources, helicopters ect. Its the original 2 tier system of policing, and I, and probably @Scully can give you an endless stream of examples. Are the police scared of confronting travs ? We have aggravated trespass, armed trespass, criminal damage, various wildlife offences, dangerous and reckless driving, and a host of other driving offences. A quick recce of the local trav camps would likely find most of the vehicles involved, along with a good haul of stolen gear, but you know thats not going to happen, we cant be having their rights infringed can we ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 2 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Ive said many times on here that that the 'ethnic minority' of travs are a law unto themselves, they abide by their own 'rules' Weve seen it time and again, they arent bothered by police, or the consequences of being arrested. To stop and detain a large group of possibly armed individuals would require a 3 to 1 police response (with ARVs) just to contain them, there simply was not enough police in the county to do this. Even if you said they were randomly shooting guns out the vehicles, I doubt very much there would have been any response, due to risk of officers being hurt. Now if you said one of the farmers had discharged a firearm... Well you can imagine some kind of armed siege using all available resources, helicopters ect. Its the original 2 tier system of policing, and I, and probably @Scully can give you an endless stream of examples. Are the police scared of confronting travs ? We have aggravated trespass, armed trespass, criminal damage, various wildlife offences, dangerous and reckless driving, and a host of other driving offences. A quick recce of the local trav camps would likely find most of the vehicles involved, along with a good haul of stolen gear, but you know thats not going to happen, we cant be having their rights infringed can we ? We have certainly had 'armed trespass' (in the form of using a rifle in pursuit of deer and where the locked and chained gate had been torn out by a truck) - and the police 'couldn't send anyone'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: We have certainly had 'armed trespass' (in the form of using a rifle in pursuit of deer and where the locked and chained gate had been torn out by a truck) - and the police 'couldn't send anyone'. Hypothetically, I wonder what would happen in such a scenario if someone claimed they were being approached by a hostile individual with a gun before the line going dead. They surely couldn't ignore that 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 12 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: They surely couldn't ignore that I wouldnt bank on it if they knew travs were involved. Ill give you one scenario that happened about 20 years ago. They pulled up on a grass verge in a very posh area of Nottingham, ( 4 caravans) the locals had to walk through the camp to get to the only post box in the area, the intimidation was vile, the police did nothing, saying it was a matter for the council and evictions had been issued. After several weeks the post box mysteriously exploded, and the mail stolen. The police then got involved, searched the caravans and recovered a shotgun, it apparently didnt belong to anyone There was no further action, no arrests, and the travs moved on shortly afterwards. Like I said, the original 2 tier system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 36 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Hypothetically, I wonder what would happen in such a scenario if someone claimed they were being approached by a hostile individual with a gun before the line going dead. They surely couldn't ignore that 🤔 One thing that might happen is that the person who "claimed they were being approached" might (if he was an SGC/FAC holder) have his guns removed "temporarily for safety". They will always act 'for safety' along the path of least resistance. Two local(ish) traveller sites have been searched for firearms (needing HUGE police teams and the police helicopter) and nothing is ever found. Our locals don't actually travel at all. They are firmly fixed on their sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 7 hours ago, Rewulf said: Ive said many times on here that that the 'ethnic minority' of travs are a law unto themselves, they abide by their own 'rules' Weve seen it time and again, they arent bothered by police, or the consequences of being arrested. To stop and detain a large group of possibly armed individuals would require a 3 to 1 police response (with ARVs) just to contain them, there simply was not enough police in the county to do this. Even if you said they were randomly shooting guns out the vehicles, I doubt very much there would have been any response, due to risk of officers being hurt. Now if you said one of the farmers had discharged a firearm... Well you can imagine some kind of armed siege using all available resources, helicopters ect. Its the original 2 tier system of policing, and I, and probably @Scully can give you an endless stream of examples. Are the police scared of confronting travs ? We have aggravated trespass, armed trespass, criminal damage, various wildlife offences, dangerous and reckless driving, and a host of other driving offences. A quick recce of the local trav camps would likely find most of the vehicles involved, along with a good haul of stolen gear, but you know thats not going to happen, we cant be having their rights infringed can we ? Costs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 44 minutes ago, old man said: Costs? Who knows, I know the travs NEVER get a bill for cleanup, no matter what they do. I remember them pulling on a football pitch used by several schools and Sunday league clubs, they absolutely refused to move until bailiffs turned up with police, they weren't happy. Multiple skips and a small army of council workers picked up the rubbish, excrement, and tried hard to get the pitch sorted so kids could use it again, but a few days later someone had come back and covered the whole pitch in broken glass. Had to be dug up and re grassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 If you ever hear that the police dont have enough resources, money or bobbies on the beat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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