From the Countryside Alliance, "The government are coming for your shotguns"

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Shocking, but ONLY to be expected.

https://www.countryside-alliance.org/resources/news/tim-bonner-the-government-is-coming-for-your-shotguns?utm_campaign=Weekly Newsletter&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--5N7dI21HF7FzbQi6JL1rzP1aDOkRQcx6wXdk1SmutB68E3wQ9rsHblXBt7galoRMyIMhB011Yrp-VGQkZ_SHle95eqQ&_hsmi=104395173&utm_content=104395173&utm_source=hs_email

[Pushandpull]

The Firearms Control Green Paper was apparently shelved some fifty years ago (973 ?) but we have been inching towards its demands ever since.

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, Pushandpull said:

The Firearms Control Green Paper was apparently shelved some fifty years ago (973 ?) but we have been inching towards its demands ever since.

Yes. In fact if you look at its proposals you can end up with more "ticks" than non-ticks. The late Colin Greenwood gave this in evidence to Parliament.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/95ap25.htm

In May 1973, the Home Office produced a consultative document (a Green Paper), "The Control of Firearms in Great Britain" (Cmnd 5297) which was a very much watered down version of the McKay report without some of the more extreme statements. The primary aim expressed in the McKay Report was not included in the Green Paper nor were other proposals which the Home Office, itself heavily involved in the McKay Working Party, must have seen as politically unacceptable even if desirable for their own purposes. The proposals set out in the Green Paper were:

• (a)  Total prohibition of all self loading rifles and pump action or repeater shotguns.

• (b)  The creation of a power to prohibit other types of firearms or ammunition by Statutory Instrument.

• (c )  Statutory Instrument to define acceptable reasons for possessing a firearm.

• (d)  An effective ban on all collections of firearms.

• (e)  Banning of the retention of trophies.

• (f)  Minor changes to the declaration of and effect of convictions to the grant of a certificate.

• (g)  Clarification of right of appeal against conditions imposed.

• (h)  Requirement to notify transfer of firearm to dealer.

• (i)  Power for police to revoke in cases where the "good reason" given may cease to exist.

• (j)  Shotguns to be subject to the same controls as Section 1 firearms.

• (k)  Requirement for numbering all firearms.

• (l)  Visitor's permits to require sponsorship by UK resident.

• (m)  Defining of antique firearms so as to exclude all cartridge firing weapons.

• (n)  All pump-up airguns to be declared specially dangerous.

• (o)  Safe keeping condition to be applied to shotgun ammunition.

• (p)  Purchaser of shotgun ammunition to produce certificate.

• (q)  Special permit for the holding of bulk shotgun ammunition.

• (r)  Authorisation to be required for small arms nitro compound.

• (s)  Self igniting airgun ammunition to be subject to Section 1.

• (t)  Dealers to establish personal suitability and suitability of premises.

• (u)  Mail order sales of firearms to be banned.

• (v)  Only full time dealers to be registered.

• (w)  Dealers to be at least 18.

• (x)  Dealers to be allowed to keep registers in a form acceptable to the police.

• (y)  Dealers to retain registers for five years.

• (z)  Separate registers to be kept for each place of business.

• (aa)  Dealers exhibiting at fairs to obtain temporary permit.

• (ab)  Dealers to see certificate before returning repaired gun.

• (ac)  Conditions regarding security in transit to be imposed on dealers.

• (ad)  Club approval to be by way of firearm certificate issued by police.

• (ae)  Exemption for miniature rifle ranges to be restricted to "long rifle" ammunition.

• (af)  Certificate to be required for shooting galleries.

• (ag)  Ages at which young people may possess firearms to be raised.

• (ah)  Ban on imitation and toy firearms likely to be mistaken for real firearms.

• (ai)  Penalty for possession of shotgun without a certificate to be the same as that for possession Section 1 firearm.

• (aj)  An amnesty for illegally held firearms to be arranged.

Edited February 13 by enfieldspares

[enfieldspares]

So as not to interfere with others wanting to copy and past the post I made just above I have reprinted the proposals and put in bold type what is now, in fact, the law

(a)  Total prohibition of all self loading rifles and pump action or repeater shotguns.

(b)  The creation of a power to prohibit other types of firearms or ammunition by Statutory Instrument.

(c )  Statutory Instrument to define acceptable reasons for possessing a firearm.

(d)  An effective ban on all collections of firearms.

(e)  Banning of the retention of trophies.

(f)  Minor changes to the declaration of and effect of convictions to the grant of a certificate.

(g)  Clarification of right of appeal against conditions imposed.

(h)  Requirement to notify transfer of firearm to dealer.

(i)  Power for police to revoke in cases where the "good reason" given may cease to exist.

(j)  Shotguns to be subject to the same controls as Section 1 firearms.

(k)  Requirement for numbering all firearms.

(l)  Visitor's permits to require sponsorship by UK resident.

(m)  Defining of antique firearms so as to exclude all cartridge firing weapons.

(n)  All pump-up airguns to be declared specially dangerous.

(o)  Safe keeping condition to be applied to shotgun ammunition.

(p)  Purchaser of shotgun ammunition to produce certificate.

(q)  Special permit for the holding of bulk shotgun ammunition.

(r)  Authorisation to be required for small arms nitro compound.

(s)  Self igniting airgun ammunition to be subject to Section 1.

(t)  Dealers to establish personal suitability and suitability of premises.

(u)  Mail order sales of firearms to be banned.

(v)  Only full time dealers to be registered.

(w)  Dealers to be at least 18.

(x)  Dealers to be allowed to keep registers in a form acceptable to the police.

(y)  Dealers to retain registers for five years.

(z)  Separate registers to be kept for each place of business.

(aa)  Dealers exhibiting at fairs to obtain temporary permit.

(ab)  Dealers to see certificate before returning repaired gun.

(ac)  Conditions regarding security in transit to be imposed on dealers.

(ad)  Club approval to be by way of firearm certificate issued by police.

(ae)  Exemption for miniature rifle ranges to be restricted to "long rifle" ammunition.

(af)  Certificate to be required for shooting galleries.

(ag)  Ages at which young people may possess firearms to be raised.

(ah)  Ban on imitation and toy firearms likely to be mistaken for real firearms.

(ai)  Penalty for possession of shotgun without a certificate to be the same as that for possession Section 1 firearm.

(aj)  An amnesty for illegally held firearms to be arranged.

Note that some shotguns have indeed been raised to s1 controls and some other shotguns raised to s5 controls under the Thatcher 1988 Firearms Act. 

Edited February 13 by enfieldspares

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Thank you E.S.

[enfieldspares]

8 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Thank you E.S.

I think that a number of the proposals have become "de facto" the law even if not "de jure". I don't know of any RFD under age eighteen and one could argue that some legislation on realistic replicas being painted orange or pink also have fulfilled some of the proposals. Also I know of no RFD who will return a repaired firearm or shotgun without requiring the owner produce their FAC or SGC and, in regard to storage, all s2 shotguns now must be kept securely in the same manner that all s1 firearms must. Plus this still to come into effect:

https://www.nsra.co.uk/news/firearms-act-2023

Edited February 13 by enfieldspares

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I think we have been sold down the river and within 10 years, private ownership of firearms will be a thing of the past.

[Scully]

As regards removing the S2 requirement, it’s not too much of a problem if people are happy to only  own one or two shotguns, each with its own ‘good reason’. When CF handguns were legally obtained ‘good reason’ was accepted as anything which was different to anything already owned. ‘Sporting use’ was the usual reason, but things like barrel length, calibre, action etc were acceptable; whether that will change remains to be seen. 
For those like myself who own several, it can become more of a problem, plus expensive, having to apply for each and every variation. It’s also designed to inhibit the ease by which each firearm is purchased; if you ain’t got that slot on your ticket when you find that lovely gun on a dealers rack, then it ain’t going to happen if you ain’t got that slot….or a 1 for 1 variation plus cost and the time it takes to get it if you haven’t 
Its bureaucracy designed purely and simply out of a spiteful agenda to make it as difficult as possible to legally aquire a gun, while STILL doing nothing to reduce armed crime. 
If they’re not careful our policy makers will very soon make it easier, quicker and cheaper to get one illegally. Now there’s a scary thought! 

[Feltwad]

19 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I think we have been sold down the river and within 10 years, private ownership of firearms will be a thing of the past.

it is only  two or three months ago  when Labour took over control that I said that shooting would be finished in five years , my reply from certain members in these forums was that I was talking  was aloud of TOSH .If all shooting organisation had been under one roof after Hungerford  things may have been different .

Feltwad

[wymberley]

3 hours ago, Scully said:

As regards removing the S2 requirement, it’s not too much of a problem if people are happy to only  own one or two shotguns, each with its own ‘good reason’. When CF handguns were legally obtained ‘good reason’ was accepted as anything which was different to anything already owned. ‘Sporting use’ was the usual reason, but things like barrel length, calibre, action etc were acceptable; whether that will change remains to be seen. 
For those like myself who own several, it can become more of a problem, plus expensive, having to apply for each and every variation. It’s also designed to inhibit the ease by which each firearm is purchased; if you ain’t got that slot on your ticket when you find that lovely gun on a dealers rack, then it ain’t going to happen if you ain’t got that slot….or a 1 for 1 variation plus cost and the time it takes to get it if you haven’t 
Its bureaucracy designed purely and simply out of a spiteful agenda to make it as difficult as possible to legally aquire a gun, while STILL doing nothing to reduce armed crime. 
If they’re not careful our policy makers will very soon make it easier, quicker and cheaper to get one illegally. Now there’s a scary thought! 

[Scully]

3 hours ago, Feltwad said:

If all shooting organisation had been under one roof after Hungerford  things may have been different .

Feltwad

That’s simply not true for the obvious reasons that history has shown. 

[grahamch]

Surely this needs a coordinated response from all of the various organisations that represent our community without any infighting. 

 

Maybe it would be better if they all merged into one group but i guess this will never happen.

[Feltwad]

8 minutes ago, grahamch said:

Surely this needs a coordinated response from all of the various organisations that represent our community without any infighting. 

 

Maybe it would be better if they all merged into one group but i guess this will never happen.

That what  I have always said for many decades there is too much bitterness in the sport of shooting  against each others  shooting sport I have heard it said  many times when something happens  well it does not involve my shooting sport   so I am not interested  . United  we stand divided we fall  which then would have had more clout instead of treating it like a bad smell hoping it will go away  because now it is too late for our shooting and its heritage

Feltwad

[Dougy]

Has anyone with a bit of common  sense spoke up and asked what the government is doing about the import of illegal firearms   

The easy option as we all know is target legally owned 1st.. All that will.do is tick a box , again we know this..

Control the illegal import and police hard on gang culture and drug dealers will be time better spent. 

 

[Penelope]

23 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Shocking, but ONLY to be expected.

https://www.countryside-alliance.org/resources/news/tim-bonner-the-government-is-coming-for-your-shotguns?utm_campaign=Weekly Newsletter&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--5N7dI21HF7FzbQi6JL1rzP1aDOkRQcx6wXdk1SmutB68E3wQ9rsHblXBt7galoRMyIMhB011Yrp-VGQkZ_SHle95eqQ&_hsmi=104395173&utm_content=104395173&utm_source=hs_email

Tim has just been on Martin Daubney's show on GB News.

[mossy835]

6 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I think we have been sold down the river and within 10 years, private ownership of firearms will be a thing of the past.

 

 

its looking that way.

[Pushandpull]

Things looked pretty bad fifty years ago, but we are still here doing our thing albeit sans pistols and s/a centrefires.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Feltwad said:

That what  I have always said for many decades there is too much bitterness in the sport of shooting  against each others  shooting sport 

And there you have it; you’ve answered your question yourself! 👍

I don’t know if I’d describe it as ‘bitterness’, but certainly indifference. 

I’ll start another thread because this topic comes up many a time as a solution to our problems, and it just isn’t, never was and never could be. 

[Fil]

On 14/02/2025 at 09:25, Scully said:

As regards removing the S2 requirement, it’s not too much of a problem if people are happy to only  own one or two shotguns, each with its own ‘good reason’. When CF handguns were legally obtained ‘good reason’ was accepted as anything which was different to anything already owned. ‘Sporting use’ was the usual reason, but things like barrel length, calibre, action etc were acceptable; whether that will change remains to be seen. 
For those like myself who own several, it can become more of a problem, plus expensive, having to apply for each and every variation. It’s also designed to inhibit the ease by which each firearm is purchased; if you ain’t got that slot on your ticket when you find that lovely gun on a dealers rack, then it ain’t going to happen if you ain’t got that slot….or a 1 for 1 variation plus cost and the time it takes to get it if you haven’t 
Its bureaucracy designed purely and simply out of a spiteful agenda to make it as difficult as possible to legally aquire a gun, while STILL doing nothing to reduce armed crime. 
If they’re not careful our policy makers will very soon make it easier, quicker and cheaper to get one illegally. Now there’s a scary thought! 

I wonder what the police think with all the extra load of paperwork they will have to do if SEC 2 became good reason and variations became necessary to purchase another gun. They whinge enough to me already about the amount of paperwork they have to do. 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Fil said:

I wonder what the police think with all the extra load of paperwork they will have to do if SEC 2 became good reason and variations became necessary to purchase another gun. They whinge enough to me already about the amount of paperwork they have to do. 

Well they then have yet another excuse for pisspoor performance! It’s a win win for licensing to carry on dishing out a service unfit for purpose …...’yes, we’ve been allocated full cost recovery, but then the politicians moved the goal posts and increased the paperwork threefold’.
Then guess what happens…..a huge increase in licensing fees because ‘fill cost recovery’ has increased along with the workload, and round we go again.
The status quo remains and your UK shooting men and women are left to suck it all up again. Let’s face it, what other choice do they have? We aren’t going to protest in the streets and risk the chance of arrest are we? Thats a sure fire way to kiss your tickets bye bye. 
You’re then left with the average bloke being priced out of shooting and to a greater extent ( as far as driven game shooting is concerned anyhow )  we’re back where we were at the turn of the 19th century with only the wealthy being able to afford to shoot game.
Clay pigeon shooters will be ok possibly, but licence fees and all matters relative will have increased beyond all recognition, ditto for non-toxic shot. Don’t believe me? We’re getting there; just have a look at the cars in your local clay club and compare that to your local golf club. Not too dissimilar to now really. 
The status quo remains and the UK shooter is left to suck it all up again! Let’s face it, what choice do we have? 
This latest legislation will hit hard every aspect of UK shooting, including the trade. People will buy fewer guns because of the hassle involved; already undervalued guns ( due to the lead shot farce ) are devalued further, and those who have several and who are now faced with 1 for 1 variations to meet new requirements, are now faced with trying to move some on to a market which doesn’t want them and thereby selling at well beneath their value. 
Remember, there will be no compensation because nothing has been banned. 
Meanwhile, armed crime by illegal and legal owners of firearms continues unabated because there’s nothing anyone can do to prevent the illegal aspect of it, but also because the police keep returning legally owned firearms to those who shouldn’t have them. 🤷‍♂️

A bit of a rant admittedly, but I’m angry, very angry. I’m angry at the politicians who increasingly come up with two tier ineffectual legislation which has no effect on anyone other than the law abiding, based on spite, ignorance and cowardice. 
I’m angry at the cynical and malicious means by which this legislation is arrived. 
I’m angry because we have a lack of effective opposition which often panders and cosies up to those who oppose us, I’m angry at the ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude of other shooters, and I’m angry because shooting is my way of life, and it’s being systematically undermined and destroyed for no reason other than a cowardly political agenda. 
Anyhow, enjoy your weekend. 🙂

Edited February 15 by Scully

[Fil]

21 minutes ago, Scully said:

Well they then have yet another excuse for pisspoor performance! It’s a win win for licensing to carry on dishing out a service unfit for purpose …...’yes, we’ve been allocated full cost recovery, but then the politicians moved the goal posts and increased the paperwork threefold’.
Then guess what happens…..a huge increase in licensing fees because ‘fill cost recovery’ has increased along with the workload, and round we go again.
The status quo remains and your UK shooting men and women are left to suck it all up again. Let’s face it, what other choice do they have? We aren’t going to protest in the streets and risk the chance of arrest are we? Thats a sure fire way to kiss your tickets bye bye. 
You’re then left with the average bloke being priced out of shooting and to a greater extent ( as far as driven game shooting is concerned anyhow )  we’re back where we were at the turn of the 19th century with only the wealthy being able to afford to shoot game.
Clay pigeon shooters will be ok possibly, but licence fees and all matters relative will have increased beyond all recognition, ditto for non-toxic shot. Don’t believe me? We’re getting there; just have a look at the cars in your local clay club and compare that to your local golf club. Not too dissimilar to now really. 
The status quo remains and the UK shooter is left to suck it all up again! Let’s face it, what choice do we have? 
This latest legislation will hit hard every aspect of UK shooting, including the trade. People will buy fewer guns because of the hassle involved; already undervalued guns ( due to the lead shot farce ) are devalued further, and those who have several and who are now faced with 1 for 1 variations to meet new requirements, are now faced with trying to move some on to a market which doesn’t want them and thereby selling at well beneath their value. 
Remember, there will be no compensation because nothing has been banned. 
Meanwhile, armed crime by illegal and legal owners of firearms continues unabated because there’s nothing anyone can do to prevent the illegal aspect of it, but also because the police keep returning legally owned firearms to those who shouldn’t have them. 🤷‍♂️

A bit of a rant admittedly, but I’m angry, very angry. I’m angry at the politicians who increasingly come up with two tier ineffectual legislation which has no effect on anyone other than the law abiding, based on spite, ignorance and cowardice. 
I’m angry at the cynical and malicious means by which this legislation is arrived. 
I’m angry because we have a lack of effective opposition which often panders and cosies up to those who oppose us, I’m angry at the ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude of other shooters, and I’m angry because shooting is my way of life, and it’s being systematically undermined and destroyed for no reason other than a cowardly political agenda. 
Anyhow, enjoy your weekend. 🙂

Well put and I couldn't have said it any better myself. 

[wymberley]

“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

Relax and go shooting.

[London Best]

3 hours ago, wymberley said:

“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

Relax and go shooting.

Amen!

[Konor]

5 hours ago, Scully said:

Well they then have yet another excuse for pisspoor performance! It’s a win win for licensing to carry on dishing out a service unfit for purpose …...’yes, we’ve been allocated full cost recovery, but then the politicians moved the goal posts and increased the paperwork threefold’.
Then guess what happens…..a huge increase in licensing fees because ‘fill cost recovery’ has increased along with the workload, and round we go again.
The status quo remains and your UK shooting men and women are left to suck it all up again. Let’s face it, what other choice do they have? We aren’t going to protest in the streets and risk the chance of arrest are we? Thats a sure fire way to kiss your tickets bye bye. 
You’re then left with the average bloke being priced out of shooting and to a greater extent ( as far as driven game shooting is concerned anyhow )  we’re back where we were at the turn of the 19th century with only the wealthy being able to afford to shoot game.
Clay pigeon shooters will be ok possibly, but licence fees and all matters relative will have increased beyond all recognition, ditto for non-toxic shot. Don’t believe me? We’re getting there; just have a look at the cars in your local clay club and compare that to your local golf club. Not too dissimilar to now really. 
The status quo remains and the UK shooter is left to suck it all up again! Let’s face it, what choice do we have? 
This latest legislation will hit hard every aspect of UK shooting, including the trade. People will buy fewer guns because of the hassle involved; already undervalued guns ( due to the lead shot farce ) are devalued further, and those who have several and who are now faced with 1 for 1 variations to meet new requirements, are now faced with trying to move some on to a market which doesn’t want them and thereby selling at well beneath their value. 
Remember, there will be no compensation because nothing has been banned. 
Meanwhile, armed crime by illegal and legal owners of firearms continues unabated because there’s nothing anyone can do to prevent the illegal aspect of it, but also because the police keep returning legally owned firearms to those who shouldn’t have them. 🤷‍♂️

A bit of a rant admittedly, but I’m angry, very angry. I’m angry at the politicians who increasingly come up with two tier ineffectual legislation which has no effect on anyone other than the law abiding, based on spite, ignorance and cowardice. 
I’m angry at the cynical and malicious means by which this legislation is arrived. 
I’m angry because we have a lack of effective opposition which often panders and cosies up to those who oppose us, I’m angry at the ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude of other shooters, and I’m angry because shooting is my way of life, and it’s being systematically undermined and destroyed for no reason other than a cowardly political agenda. 
Anyhow, enjoy your weekend. 🙂

Well said Scully, after spending hard earned cash over the years on acquiring shotguns that I could never afford when younger I and many others face the possibility of drastic downsizing and selling guns if possible for probably a fraction of their personal worth. I don’t quite understand the grin and bear it mentality. Fair enough if you’ve just picked up a couple of box locks under the £100 mark but a kick in the pants if you’ve just chosen to invest in expensive game or clay guns for personal pleasure. I’ll have a difficult time choosing between my just bought AYA number 1 sixteen bore and my five other side by sides some of equal value or the five over and unders sitting in my cabinets.  As mentioned earlier it’s possibly best to just to carry on and enjoy your shooting while you can but the constant onslaught to prohibit just for the sake of it is wearing as is the constant political striving towards woke enlightenment that seems to preoccupy so many and threatens all aspects of our sport.

[Scully]

34 minutes ago, Konor said:

Well said Scully, after spending hard earned cash over the years on acquiring shotguns that I could never afford when younger I and many others face the possibility of drastic downsizing and selling guns if possible for probably a fraction of their personal worth. I don’t quite understand the grin and bear it mentality. Fair enough if you’ve just picked up a couple of box locks under the £100 mark but a kick in the pants if you’ve just chosen to invest in expensive game or clay guns for personal pleasure. I’ll have a difficult time choosing between my just bought AYA number 1 sixteen bore and my five other side by sides some of equal value or the five over and unders sitting in my cabinets.  As mentioned earlier it’s possibly best to just to carry on and enjoy your shooting while you can but the constant onslaught to prohibit just for the sake of it is wearing as is the constant political striving towards woke enlightenment that seems to preoccupy so many and threatens all aspects of our sport.

Quite. It’s ultra clear as to who has been targeted in this latest piece of legislation. The politicians don’t mind your average country gent who has one or two expensive sxs’s or OU’s which only see the light of day six months a year from August until February, but they aren’t keen on your average working man who likes to sit in a hide with his S1 or S2 auto loader twelve months a year and has a multitude of guns back home to use on clays, game and pests for the sheer enjoyment of them. There are worse things he could be doing. 
Like you I have guns into double digits, and use every one of them, and like I told my last FEO when he last visited and asked why I had so many guns, my ‘good reason’ is that I simply love guns and shooting, and have done so for as long as I can remember. That ‘good reason’ is no longer valid. 
I’m a law abiding person ( mostly ) and resent this constant interference into my life. Politicians should go and interfere in the lives of those who do harm and leave the law abiding alone. 

Edited Saturday at 17:40 by Scully