bruno22rf Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 why is it that the education authority are only willing to spend around £2000 per year to educate a normal child when it is common knowledge that kids are suffering from a gross lack of funding and that they could, possibly, never achieve their full potential.Now for the controversial bit-"special needs" kids in a school that i recentley visited are funded ,on average, £18k per term!.These kids were suffering from severe disabilities and i have the greatest sympathy for their plight and of their parents nightmare in trying to raise them.However, how can we justify spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on a child that will probably never be able to wipe its own backside when able bodied kids are being neglected and deprived of the funds that could ensure that they have the chance to reach the upper reaches of the emplyment ladder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varmintator Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) eh Josef Mengele why dont you just send your kids to private school if you are that worried and leave the poor disabled kids alone. I would not pit one against he other I think kids need more funding able bodied or not. Edited April 13, 2009 by varmintator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 IMO its up to the child to make the most of their education. You could increase the funding given to able bodied kids, but it doesnt necessarily mean that their performance will improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 That child that can't wipe its own backside is still someone's child. I'm pretty sure this thread wouldn't be worded quite the same if it was your kid. Just think yourself lucky that if you do have a kid who has any problem, it doesn't cost you a penny to have the best care in the world for him or her. Funny how people are so critical of the healthcare system, when they don't realise that most other countries don't have a completely free healthcare system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJN Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 I understand where Bruno22rf is coming from, a friend of mine is a teacher at a special needs school, she teaches FRENCH to children who can barely speak , because of the 'rules', the children have to have equal opputunties. BTW these children will never be another Stephen Hawkins. on the other hand the money that is spent (and rightly so) should be spent on more constructive ways of improving these peoples lives in my opinion, as it's not their fault they have special needs. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Lets just have a quick look at these replies-varmintator/-why should i have to send my kids to private school when i am already paying a kings ransom to have them taught in the state system?-it may interest you to know that many of the kids in the school i was talking about are immigrants (one out of the ten was english).dancake/-A childs motivation is a powerfull tool but when the very means of learning are absent they soon lose heart.harfordwmi / the child would remain someones child and recieve the same love and attention without the money + no one mentioned "care"-we are talking education here and besides the healthcare in this country has been raped by succesive goverments for years and is in meltdown-as for being free -i dont think so. One other thing to lob into the melting pot-in my village is a "school" that takes all the kids that have been expelled from mainstream units and are considered too troublesome to stay in normal schools.They have no physical or mental problems -they simply refuse to tow the line.These kids are brought to school by taxi-one in each from all over the area-each child also has to have an escort because of child protection not allowing them to be alone in a car with an adult-the taxi drivers also insist on this-the bill for all of this is picked up by us all.By comparison - when my lad goes to secondary school in 2 years time im going to have to pay over £600 per year to get him there-is that fair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Lets just have a quick look at these replies-varmintator/-why should i have to send my kids to private school when i am already paying a kings ransom to have them taught in the state system?-it may interest you to know that many of the kids in the school i was talking about are immigrants (one out of the ten was english).dancake/-A childs motivation is a powerfull tool but when the very means of learning are absent they soon lose heart.harfordwmi / the child would remain someones child and recieve the same love and attention without the money + no one mentioned "care"-we are talking education here and besides the healthcare in this country has been raped by succesive goverments for years and is in meltdown-as for being free -i dont think so.One other thing to lob into the melting pot-in my village is a "school" that takes all the kids that have been expelled from mainstream units and are considered too troublesome to stay in normal schools.They have no physical or mental problems -they simply refuse to tow the line.These kids are brought to school by taxi-one in each from all over the area-each child also has to have an escort because of child protection not allowing them to be alone in a car with an adult-the taxi drivers also insist on this-the bill for all of this is picked up by us all.By comparison - when my lad goes to secondary school in 2 years time im going to have to pay over £600 per year to get him there-is that fair? And then if they actually attend every day in the week they are taken on days out and bought free mcdonald's :o I WENT TO SCHOOL EVERY DAY N DIDNT GET ****** ALL!!!! let alone day trips out or even some abroad skiing n all sorts. Bloody ridiculous! The worse behaved you are the more free stuff they throw at you. Where as the good ones get sweet F all It's just plain wrong! Also I think this thread was in the way of money spent on disabled kids could be better managed. No one's saying that disabled kids dont deserve help so don't get all high n mighty on us but do you really think someone who is never going to be able to get a proper job due to there Disabilities (which is sad) need's to be taught french ? Or have thousands of pounds spent on they're education when there only going to end up doing the same thing as if they had no education Im not trying to be a bad guy and think these kids deserve alot of respect. But I think they would be much happier playing or doing activites then learning french or doing something that will never help them! I think we are simply saying the money could be managed better where student who have the opportunity to put to use the skills they are taught to better the world could get some extra funding which could even benefit the lives of everyone including the other kids Its just an opinion mate, no need to start bickering like little kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 My wife works in a special needs school as a support for learning assistant and her role is to help teach and to provide intimate care for these disabled children, she thoroughly enjoys her job and has done this for 18 years now and receives the grand sum of @£10K. These children need more help, obviously, and get this from almost one on one teaching and I would say that none of the children will ever have a job or to contribute to society in that way, however if the only "teaching" given to them was basically to look after them from 9-4 five days a week, then we do them, their parents and society in general a great disservice. There can be absolute joy for both the teaching staff and the child`s parents when after many months or even years, my wife gets a child to communicate and to deny this or similar services to those of greatest need is morally abhorrent. If we are going to ask why there are such disparities in funding for children`s education then we would be better off looking elsewhere IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Lets just have a quick look at these replies-varmintator/-why should i have to send my kids to private school when i am already paying a kings ransom to have them taught in the state system?-it may interest you to know that many of the kids in the school i was talking about are immigrants (one out of the ten was english).dancake/-A childs motivation is a powerfull tool but when the very means of learning are absent they soon lose heart.harfordwmi / the child would remain someones child and recieve the same love and attention without the money + no one mentioned "care"-we are talking education here and besides the healthcare in this country has been raped by succesive goverments for years and is in meltdown-as for being free -i dont think so.One other thing to lob into the melting pot-in my village is a "school" that takes all the kids that have been expelled from mainstream units and are considered too troublesome to stay in normal schools.They have no physical or mental problems -they simply refuse to tow the line.These kids are brought to school by taxi-one in each from all over the area-each child also has to have an escort because of child protection not allowing them to be alone in a car with an adult-the taxi drivers also insist on this-the bill for all of this is picked up by us all.By comparison - when my lad goes to secondary school in 2 years time im going to have to pay over £600 per year to get him there-is that fair? Apparently the schools that kids are kicked out of are paid something like £2500per child expelled, this money is then meant to be paid to who ever then teaches the expelled kids, least thats what happens in Wales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Sweepy Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 I agree with Henry I have also worked with Children with emotional problems(the ones that no schools want) And yes they do get giving more funding then the mainsteam kids. Most of these kids are not children you can sit in the classroom and teach. And the first thing you need is their repect and trust and to build on that relationship.So if that means taking them out or buying them a burger then so be it . Once you have that trust then you can build on it. You have to remember the difference with these children and mainsteam ones is. At the end of the day mainsteam can go home to Mum and Dad.And hopefully be cared for. Where i used to work at the end of the day these kids had sod all. I know if i was the kid which i would rather have. xxxSuzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammie*dodger Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Once again the voice of good sense (Mrs Sweepy) speaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8landy Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 -it may interest you to know that many of the kids in the school i was talking about are immigrants (one out of the ten was english). My other half is a primary school teacher and she has a very high proportion of pupils with special needs in her class, but equally some with above average ability. In her lesson planning she has to plan to "differentiate" to each of these levels/abilities. She also has an assistant to help out with the special needs pupils. Bruno22rf in some ways if you had mentioned the point you are mainly getting to (Immigrants) at the start you might have had a different response rather than referring to pupils with special needs! Special needs can refer to a pupil with above intellect, which is a special need! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 v8landy-good points indeed-however (immigrants aside) could you ask your wife if she agrees with the following "comments". A/special needs children are placed in mainstream schools because of the introduction of the equal opportunities dictate and would ,in many cases, be better educated within specialist schools if the parents would allow it. B/schools welcome special needs kids becuase they get a much higher budget per child that they hope to "dip into" for the benefit of the mainstream school as a whole (our council is currently offering £96k funding per 6 S.N. pupils).C/a high percentage of these SN kids are disruptive within the normal classroom enviroment and this leads to the normal (for want of a better word) kids losing valuable learning time. Might i explain that i am not on a witch hunt or spearheading an anti special needs campaign-i am simply trying to find a viable explanation why the EA can find a thousand pounds per day for some children and a thousand reasons a day for denying others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8landy Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Bruno22 In reply to your questions A - Yes 100% agree B - sort of true, but when the location you work in is a higher than average requiremts for SN the school has little choce. C - again sort of true, but see answer A. But then her biggest SN case is me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Might i explain that i am not on a witch hunt or spearheading an anti special needs campaign-i am simply trying to find a viable explanation why the EA can find a thousand pounds per day for some children and a thousand reasons a day for denying others. What are they being denied ?? If a child needs a hoist to enable them to do what other children take for granted, why not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8landy Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Henry is correct, know one is dennied anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 why is it that the education authority are only willing to spend around £2000 per year to educate a normal child when it is common knowledge that kids are suffering from a gross lack of funding and that they could, possibly, never achieve their full potential.Now for the controversial bit-"special needs" kids in a school that i recentley visited are funded ,on average, £18k per term!.These kids were suffering from severe disabilities and i have the greatest sympathy for their plight and of their parents nightmare in trying to raise them.However, how can we justify spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on a child that will probably never be able to wipe its own backside when able bodied kids are being neglected and deprived of the funds that could ensure that they have the chance to reach the upper reaches of the emplyment ladder? simple the poor **** have been short changed in life and we as a society have a duty to make every second of their lives as fruitfull and as comfortable as we possibly can, to deny someone in their postion any opertunity, due to cost is somewhat lacking in basic humanity. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiercel Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 bruno22rf, You are a cretin of the first order. This child is having more than mine WHINGE WHINGE. For FLIPINHECK Sake DO you know what it is like to have a child that is disabled in your family? Do you know what that entails not only for the family but for the child it's self. Have you ever been asked to leave a restaurant because you could not use a knife and fork and did not have the co-ordination to put a spoon to your mouth? Slightly rhetorical questions, because I am going to answer for you. No you do NOT!!! This is what these families go through and you begrudge them the specialist help they need. You need to grow up a little and witness life from other people’s perspective. A very angry. TC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Lets just have a quick look at these replies-varmintator/-why should i have to send my kids to private school when i am already paying a kings ransom to have them taught in the state system?-it may interest you to know that many of the kids in the school i was talking about are immigrants (one out of the ten was english).dancake/-A childs motivation is a powerfull tool but when the very means of learning are absent they soon lose heart.harfordwmi / the child would remain someones child and recieve the same love and attention without the money + no one mentioned "care"-we are talking education here and besides the healthcare in this country has been raped by succesive goverments for years and is in meltdown-as for being free -i dont think so.One other thing to lob into the melting pot-in my village is a "school" that takes all the kids that have been expelled from mainstream units and are considered too troublesome to stay in normal schools.They have no physical or mental problems -they simply refuse to tow the line.These kids are brought to school by taxi-one in each from all over the area-each child also has to have an escort because of child protection not allowing them to be alone in a car with an adult-the taxi drivers also insist on this-the bill for all of this is picked up by us all.By comparison - when my lad goes to secondary school in 2 years time im going to have to pay over £600 per year to get him there-is that fair? I own a taxi company so you just leave them money pits(sorry special "schools")alone.Naughty boys(and girls)pay my bills.You would be shocked if you knew how much is REALY spent on such education,if you can call playing pool,horse riding,dry skiing,trips to the beach,pool,amusements education. If your kid lives more than 3 mile from school,the council are obliged to pay for transport.Why do you have to pay over £600 to get your kid to school ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushkin Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) I think there are a number of points being missed here. First of all regardless of a childs needs - be they special or otherwise; it is each local education authority's duty to provide the means for that child to access - on an equal footing and as much as possible - educational opportunities. This is not something your own local authority decides - this is law and is enshrined in the pertinent Education Act. In addition to this Act; there is also the European Equal Opportunities Act to be taken into account as well as the Children Act. Now that is just off the top of my head - 3 major pieces of legal instruction. Local authorities have some leeway in how to best interpret these Acts and are supported by their own legal departments to ensure they do in fact meet the requirements. You will find that most authorities use taxi companies either with individual cars or mini buses to transport these children to and fro because they also have to meet the Best Practice guidance laid down by the Government which means the job goes out to tender and the company offering the best package at the best price (not always the cheapest) gets the job. At this stage I have only scratched at the basic costs of providing education for these children and young persons. Consider the fact that a child who cannot walk and spends their life in a wheelchair can now enjoy the thrills of abseiling - in their wheelchair - and believe me - I have yet to meet one who doesn't thoroughly enjoy it! Take the same activity and offer it to the ned who won't attend ordinary school; you might just find that guy starts to respond very positively to the opportunity and comes back for more and then begins to help others. (That's a success!) Now finally the other point you seemed to want us to consider; the majority of these kids were immigrants - yeah? How do youi know that? Was it the colour of their skin which made you think that - or did you just assume they were immigrants? Like it or not, the population of this Island is now very multi-cultural with many families now in their second, third or even fourth generation of being born in this country - so as British as you or I. Maybe you need to re-think the points you wanted to try and make from your post? Pushkin Edited April 15, 2009 by Pushkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted April 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 tiercel-thanks for your kind and mature comments-they have helped enormously-show me such a restaurant and i will report it to the authorities-as for the experience side-how do you know what experiences ive had?-would you like to see my disabled badge ? (i can p.m. you a scan of it if you like)-I have most likely experienced more medical traumas (some are available on video in teaching hospitals if you want to watch-im the one asleep on the table)in the last 5 years than most would in a lifetime-so dont even go down that road.As for the moaning bit-im asking a question in pursuit of a coherant answer and not just "its right cos i say it is".Did my growing up quite awhile back so i wont hurl abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Sweepy Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Dear Bruno I am so sorry to hear about your experiences .I wish no ill to anyone . But i would have thought though it all. It would have made you just that little bit more understanding of other peoples predicaments. I have the question which you dont have to answer.(if that makes sense) Have you ever spent the day with the severely handicap child if not then i would recommend it. Think god this country have move on from the days were these children would have been locked away . And treated as freaks.Working with young children with physical and emotional problems can be very draining but it is also one of the most rewarding too. To see pleasure on one of these children faces is worth more then any money that is put into thier education. xxxxSuzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted April 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 pushkin-a valid and understandable opinion from a member at last-well written-top marks to you sir (honestly) -by the way-i did spend most of the day with these kids of whom i have been discussing and know exactly where they come from-racism doesnt come into it-just my desire to discover who decides where the money goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scout Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 As a father of a 10 year boy with Down's Syndrome I have found this thread difficult to read, as it parridies the discrimaination and hurtful comments that my son receives every day, and will do for the rest of his life. He is 10 years old and has had in excess of 100 general anesthetics in his short life time. He has special needs by the nature of his very condition, but academically is middle of the road in his main stream class, although he does struggle with his fine motor skills, and to this aid he has a full time teaching assistant who is an absolute marvel. He is bright and switched on and enjoys every second of his life, he is no angel but show me a 10 year old lad that is, he is for all intense and purposes normal. Fortunately he doesn't understand why he is different which is small compensation. As for the extra funding received by the school, this has not only been used to fund a full time TA ( about £15K per year ), but has also provided a computer suite with 10 PC's etc, which his funding has assisted to pay for, as well as other community / sponsor events that my son, family friends etc have raised for the benefit of all kids not just the disabled one. I would say ( although I am biased ) that my son has enriched the lives of others in his school by exposing them to children that are different, there have certainly been some lively debates in the class room and play ground, these have been constructive for all involved. Some parents have found it difficult but children just accept it and move on. This proves to me that it is the parents who create and reinforce discriminations in our society, which is something we shoudl all be mindful of. I didn't ask for my son to have Down's Syndrome, and I still get upset seeing other children with Down's , even now 10 years on, but I wouldn't swap him for the world. I will have to live with the images of him in Intensive care having his heart restarted after massive amounts of surgery , and saying my goodbyes not knowing if he will life through the next operation. This is my burden and I would suggest to you all to think carefully before you pass comment / judgement on someone elses child without knowing the full story. I am sure there are some little sh*ts out there, but we as adult make them what they are and have the power to change them into great adults of tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Well said - Scout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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